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DAZ Horse 3 - will there actually be any support this time?

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  • MartialMartial Posts: 421

    barbult said:

    Martial said:

      Allo

    I have now in my cart this one:

    The DA Daz Horse 3 Pro Material Set

    I hesitate to purchase because i have bought DA Daz Horse 3 Base Material Sets when i bought DAZhorse3 .But i cannot see how to use the LIE DAZhorse3 overlay . Click on and it does nothing (see screen capture )

    A small steps by steps  how to use thes overlay and  i will buy the material set  I know what LIE is for but i cannot use use it

    1. Load one of the Daz Horse 3 "characters", for example, Horse - Standardbred - Female and have it selected in the Scene pane.
    2. Double click on one of the LIE overlays, for example, LIE DAHorse3 Overlay Pinto Black
    3. Wait a few seconds for the LIE processing to complete (might take 10 seconds or more)
    4. The selected overlay will be visible on the horse in the Daz viewport in Texture Shaded mode or Iray Preview mode.

    Yes, the Daz forum is broken. Image uploads sometimes work late at night Daz time, but seldom during Daz waking hours. People say you can upload to your Daz Gallery or other image hosting site and link to that. I haven't tried.

    Many thanks I will try it

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,167

    I feel like I was burned the first time when buying Horse 3 stuff, so I will forgo buying this time and continue to use Harry, Daz Horse 2 and, especially, Predatron's awesome Low Res Horse 2 - which I will BEG Predatron to make more skins and morphs for....lol. I'm begging Predatron. BEGGING! laugh

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,121
    Yes, I don't think we got what we thought we were promised, as far as future enhancements, when we bought the early release. Buying add-ons to make it useful, became too expensive. When Daz promised "access to" to things like additional breeds, I expected that to be a free update for buying an early unfinished product. Even a forum mod supposed that is what it meant. That hasn't happened. I'm disillusioned with Horse 3 and Daz pre-release products.
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,167

    barbult said:

    Yes, I don't think we got what we thought we were promised, as far as future enhancements, when we bought the early release. Buying add-ons to make it useful, became too expensive. When Daz promised "access to" to things like additional breeds, I expected that to be a free update for buying an early unfinished product. Even a forum mod supposed that is what it meant. That hasn't happened. I'm disillusioned with Horse 3 and Daz pre-release products.

    This. yes 

  • butterflyfishbutterflyfish Posts: 1,229

    AllenArt said:

    barbult said:

    Yes, I don't think we got what we thought we were promised, as far as future enhancements, when we bought the early release. Buying add-ons to make it useful, became too expensive. When Daz promised "access to" to things like additional breeds, I expected that to be a free update for buying an early unfinished product. Even a forum mod supposed that is what it meant. That hasn't happened. I'm disillusioned with Horse 3 and Daz pre-release products.

    This. yes 

    +1 I'm not going to fall for that again.

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 8,299

    Well I purchased the 3 main products this time, morphs, shapes and skins. And over at ArtStation I "invested" [think that's the term] in a bunch of super realistic looking horse sculptures and this weekend hope to get a good start on doing something(s) nice for H3. Let's hope the power stays on, expecting some storms in these heat wave :-(

  • paulawp (marahzen)paulawp (marahzen) Posts: 1,342
    edited July 2023

    Here's a go at making use of elements from the new DA items.

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    Post edited by paulawp (marahzen) on
  • semperequstrisemperequstri Posts: 150

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Wrong and toonish aren't really helpful when it comes to figuring out what would need to change, though. Toonish in particular can be tricky - I have felt that about some other animal reelases that have generally been praised (and even soem human characters), but would need to narrow it down if I wanted to turn it into feedback that might inform future products (or even a service pack).

    If more detail is required I'd be happy to make a series of examples. I just didn't think  this was the place for that.  

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 5,895

    butterflyfish said:

    AllenArt said:

    barbult said:

    Yes, I don't think we got what we thought we were promised, as far as future enhancements, when we bought the early release. Buying add-ons to make it useful, became too expensive. When Daz promised "access to" to things like additional breeds, I expected that to be a free update for buying an early unfinished product. Even a forum mod supposed that is what it meant. That hasn't happened. I'm disillusioned with Horse 3 and Daz pre-release products.

    This. yes 

    +1 I'm not going to fall for that again.

    +2 I've bought everything for DH3 except the carts/wagons, but I've decided to miss this go-round. 

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,734

    semperequstri said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Wrong and toonish aren't really helpful when it comes to figuring out what would need to change, though. Toonish in particular can be tricky - I have felt that about some other animal reelases that have generally been praised (and even soem human characters), but would need to narrow it down if I wanted to turn it into feedback that might inform future products (or even a service pack).

    If more detail is required I'd be happy to make a series of examples. I just didn't think  this was the place for that.  

    I think you should, especially since this thread is about horse 3

  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,237
    edited July 2023

    semperequstri said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Wrong and toonish aren't really helpful when it comes to figuring out what would need to change, though. Toonish in particular can be tricky - I have felt that about some other animal reelases that have generally been praised (and even soem human characters), but would need to narrow it down if I wanted to turn it into feedback that might inform future products (or even a service pack).

    If more detail is required I'd be happy to make a series of examples. I just didn't think  this was the place for that.  

    Go for it, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion. Just be aware we are looking at shape in the contraints of existing topography, rigging and poly limits. Each shape also needs to be capable of a fairly broad range of movement as Horse 3's rigging offers a much broader range of movement compared to other horses available. The shape also needs to be capable of representing male and female and play well with other morphs such as additive foal, add old age or breed mixing. Comments like the body should be 10% longer are not really helpful in this context as I have said the morph pack, which the shapes are built from, contains numerous morphs to make the body longer in multiple ways. So that is something that is easily corrected with a simple dial spin to user preference. You can even save the adjustments as a new character if you like. Also keep in mind their are no actual muscles keeping the shape defined, so muscle definition that looks correct in one pose may look awful in another. In most situations in modeling it's best to aim for a middle ground with muscle definition rather than perfect for one pose.

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  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,237
    edited July 2023

    I've also just finished the update to wildstyle hair and will be uploading later today. The changes were mainly to do with the eyelashes now being cards rather than Dforce and some changes with the tail in latest Horse 3 update which affected the presets.

    This image is The Clydesdale with a few tweeks using the morph pack to increase the heaviness of the stature.

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  • CWRWCWRW Posts: 89
    edited July 2023

    paulawp (marahzen) said:

    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:

    t the moment I am working on a set of Horse 2 UVs for Horse 3 which will allow the use of all existing Horse 2 materials on Horse 3 to expand capability. Please let me know if you have anything you would really like to see and I can add it to my worklist. (Yes, mane, tail and feathering are on the list ;))

    Thanks all.

    I'd humbly request chestnut, the color. I've adapted a texture sourced elsewhere and created one, hodge-podgily, from Daz Horse 2 textures, but would really like a nice clean chestnut. This example is from the off-the-track thoroughbred that I had many moons ago

    Like this?:

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    Post edited by CWRW on
  • CWRWCWRW Posts: 89

    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:

    semperequstri said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Wrong and toonish aren't really helpful when it comes to figuring out what would need to change, though. Toonish in particular can be tricky - I have felt that about some other animal reelases that have generally been praised (and even soem human characters), but would need to narrow it down if I wanted to turn it into feedback that might inform future products (or even a service pack).

    If more detail is required I'd be happy to make a series of examples. I just didn't think  this was the place for that.  

    Go for it, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion. Just be aware we are looking at shape in the contraints of existing topography, rigging and poly limits. Each shape also needs to be capable of a fairly broad range of movement as Horse 3's rigging offers a much broader range of movement compared to other horses available. The shape also needs to be capable of representing male and female and play well with other morphs such as additive foal, add old age or breed mixing. Comments like the body should be 10% longer are not really helpful in this context as I have said the morph pack, which the shapes are built from, contains numerous morphs to make the body longer in multiple ways. So that is something that is easily corrected with a simple dial spin to user preference. You can even save the adjustments as a new character if you like. Also keep in mind their are no actual muscles keeping the shape defined, so muscle definition that looks correct in one pose may look awful in another. In most situations in modeling it's best to aim for a middle ground with muscle definition rather than perfect for one pose.

    You have asked for detailed advice on equine anatomy. I have done illustrations for several equine anatomy books over my 35 years in the horse business, that are still on the market and consulted by serious horsepeople.  (refrences on request). I will give you some feedback... For one if I had a horse with knees ("knees" is the commonterm for the middle joint of the front legs of equus) like that it would be incredibly crippled/dead. The front of the equine "knee" is shaped much like a shield and should be quite flat in profile unless seriously compromised usually by advanced age and/or arthritis.

    2. The gaskins are much too short/distorted in a really odd way...I am still trying to sort out how weird they are and why...

    3. The topline (spine) is lumpy, undulates and again looks arthritic.  Also the wither is quite small/narrow for the breed while the head is overly too large and clunky looking (and just plain "plug" ulgy.... Clydes are normally gorgeous and noble looking...

    4. The neck musculature is just not correct/especially the underneck.  Too many details to get into here. Look at real living breathing horses is all I can say...

    There is more and I won't get into the rigging issues of the base model, but those are the really blatant issues I see with the horse just standing still with all four legs "under him". ... you asked, and I am answering.

  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,237

    Thanks for this CWRW, give me a little to go through these and I will post again. Glad to see your interest in Horse 3 btw. :D

  • CWRWCWRW Posts: 89
    edited July 2023

    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:

    Thanks for this CWRW, give me a little to go through these and I will post again. Glad to see your interest in Horse 3 btw. :D

    You are welcome. I look forward to seeing what *anyone* can do to fix the rather large issues that come with the base model.

    It just makes me sad to see even a virtual horse sufferring/in pain from bad conformation.

    FWIW I will put myself out here with my own personal human conformational issues, with my current equine best buddy.... I DO try to walk the talk...

    image

     

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  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,237
    edited July 2023

    Thanks CWRW your reputation proceeds you and your insights are always welcome here.

    Firstly let’s just agree that no model is perfect and at some point there does need to be some concessions in regards to capability and time invested. But perfection is the goal we all strive for.

    Knees: Your right that knee does need some improvement and clearly protrudes to much to the fore and needs some overall streamlining. It does seem to be amplified with the Clydesdale Morph which I expect relates to one of the DA leg thickening morphs. The knees aren't the greatest or most detailed right through to the base.

    I'll look at tracking down the DA morphs in regards to the front knee and improving them and perhaps making HD morph to improve the overall knee quality.

    Gaskins: The gaskins aren’t too bad in most ways, and the rigging for the whole rear leg seems okay when looking through the joint editor. But point taken and I do think it’s worth exploring making the gaskin longer and also further refining the shape in regards to the whole rear leg and in turn the rear section rigging.

    Topline: I’m not really sure what you mean by the “spine undulates” maybe something in regards to the general shape of the topline? The wither can be dialed up and made wider, taller and fuller and in the render a little further down you can see I have done so. Neck bending also needs to be considered here.

    Neck: There are also a few morphs currently to change the necklines especially where it joins to the body. But point taken some more morphs to improve the topology here would be great addition.

    Head: And your right some improvement could be made to the shape of the head specifically for the shape of the Clydesdale breed and if I had infinite time to spend on these I would love to spend a lot more time refining it for a more regal look.

     

    Keep in mind that there are 8 breed related shapes in this pack for $17.49 at the current price point. Your draught horse is currently on sale at a price point of $16.95. The more time I invest into the product the further the price point would need to rise. (8 x $16.95 = $135.60).

    Perhaps you would like to throw your hat in and make us an 8 breed horse pack for Horse 3 at a $17.49 price point? Let me know… I’ll be happy to critique :)

    Jokes aside, thanks for your input I’ll definitely take it onboard when I’m looking at updates here and future products. Feel free to add more detail if you have the time. Your experience in this area is highly valued!

    PS: Love the pic heart

    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • CWRWCWRW Posts: 89
    edited July 2023

    Design Anvil - Razor42 said:

    Thanks CWRW your reputation proceeds you and your insights are always welcome here.

    Firstly let’s just agree that no model is perfect and at some point there does need to be some concessions in regards to capability and time invested. But perfection is the goal we all strive for.

    Knees: Your right that knee does need some improvement and clearly protrudes to much to the fore and needs some overall streamlining. It does seem to be amplified with the Clydesdale Morph which I expect relates to one of the DA leg thickening morphs. The knees aren't the greatest or most detailed right through to the base.

    I'll look at tracking down the DA morphs in regards to the front knee and improving them and perhaps making HD morph to improve the overall knee quality.

    Gaskins: The gaskins aren’t too bad in most ways, and the rigging for the whole rear leg seems okay when looking through the joint editor. But point taken and I do think it’s worth exploring making the gaskin longer and also further refining the shape in regards to the whole rear leg and in turn the rear section rigging.

    Topline: I’m not really sure what you mean by the “spine undulates” maybe something in regards to the general shape of the topline? The wither can be dialed up and made wider, taller and fuller and in the render a little further down you can see I have done so. Neck bending also needs to be considered here.

    Neck: There are also a few morphs currently to change the necklines especially where it joins to the body. But point taken some more morphs to improve the topology here would be great addition.

    Head: And your right some improvement could be made to the shape of the head specifically for the shape of the Clydesdale breed and if I had infinite time to spend on these I would love to spend a lot more time refining it for a more regal look.

     

    Keep in mind that there are 8 breed related shapes in this pack for $17.49 at the current price point. Your draught horse is currently on sale at a price point of $16.95. The more time I invest into the product the further the price point would need to rise. (8 x $16.95 = $135.60).

    Perhaps you would like to through your hat in and make us an 8 breed horse pack for Horse 3 at a $17.49 price point? Let me know… I’ll be happy to critique :)

    Jokes aside, thanks for your input I’ll definitely take it onboard when I’m looking at updates here and future products. Feel free to add more detail if you have the time. Your experience in this area is highly valued!

    PS: Love the pic heart

    LOL I wish you knew how much I wish I could model.  I have been a painter/2d animal artist since I was 6.  I tried modeling and rigging and yes I suck at those big time. That is part why I went with doing what I could in the 3d world as a texture artist (and "art director" for animal modelers). For me, my love for animals was always more important to me than the money I might make working on 3d animals and I always strived to make the best possible product I could for my own satisfaction and personal artwork.  Over the years maybe I have suceeded, maybe I have failed in that regard.  I did the best I could, so I admire that honest trait in anyone in this business. These days I make my own 2d animal artwork for myself and it sells/licenses well and that is all I care about at this later point in my life.  I am essentially retired from making 3d market products.

    So for anyone out there who is interested in making better 3d horse models/textures etc., study REAL living, breathing horses - they will teach you much about equestrian anatomy....and also much about life too..

    And also for equine anatomy one MUST study George Stubbs: (THE best ever equestrian artist, who I and most everyone pale in relation to....) https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Horse-Dover-Artists/dp/0486234029

    All my best...

    (me and a very good friend who is longer with us.. bless you Oscar...)

     

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  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,237
    edited July 2023

    I have to admit that I do spend a little time around horses though not as much as I would like, I have always enjoyed their company and personalities.

    Thanks for the link to the anatomy book, I will definitely check it out. And your horse textures were second to none and have always been high in my inspiration. So thanks for all your contributions in that regards, I think you could definitely say your input made its mark and you are missed.

    If you're ever interested in relooking into the 3D market look me up, I would love to collaborate on something, sometime. :)

    That's a great pic btw would make a nice reference for a render, are they eucalypts in the background?

    All the best to you also

     

    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Calliope23Calliope23 Posts: 531
    edited July 2023

    3D Universe made a really cute toon horse for DAZ Horse 3! I didn't even notice that until today when looking through their back catalogue. I'm starting to see the appeal of DAZ Horse 3 for all the cool critters it can morph into.

    https://www.daz3d.com/toon-horse-for-daz-horse-3

    Post edited by Calliope23 on
  • MzimigaMzimiga Posts: 15

    Patiently waiting for a Daz 3 unicorn! - What would be stupendously awesome was if someone made a unicorn add on to toon horse https://www.daz3d.com/toon-horse-for-daz-horse-3 with various storybook material sets to go with it. :) 

  • Calliope23Calliope23 Posts: 531

    Mzimiga said:

    Patiently waiting for a Daz 3 unicorn! - What would be stupendously awesome was if someone made a unicorn add on to toon horse https://www.daz3d.com/toon-horse-for-daz-horse-3 with various storybook material sets to go with it. :) 

    Oh my gosh, a "Toonicorn!" That would be so cute. heart

  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 1,624

    Well I mean its not a premade unicorn for DH3 but its doable. Althought due to the way the rotates/translations are set up it is somewhat a pain.  Now if we can just get @Design Anvil to update Mane and Tail would be great!

    This is just thrown together I didn't bother to change the horns colors and it was the first horn a came across.

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  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 1,624

    Another quick throw together using the DA Unicorn props.  The horn very easy to place the other are harder.  I think there is a way to zero something to make the universal tool rotations/transitions etc work accordingly but Im to tired right now to dig through my notebook.

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  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 5,895

    I found a new DH3 non-dForce hair solution called Easy Mane & Tail at another store. Kinda pricey though.

  • ZippyGuitarZippyGuitar Posts: 837
    xyer0 said:

    I found a new DH3 non-dForce hair solution called Easy Mane & Tail at another store. Kinda pricey though.

    I have it and I'm more or less happy with how it works. Looks so much better than that goofy dforce hair that comes with horsey3.
  • Calliope23Calliope23 Posts: 531

    Love all the unicorn renders. heart DH3 certainly does look better with longer hair. smiley

  • ValkeerieValkeerie Posts: 159

    I'm not in a rush to buy DH3, but I do like some of the barding/harness products. I'm guessing they don't work on DH2? Anyone tried?

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 6,283

    Looks like Deepsea has waded into the pool now. He's done some very nice animal models in the past. I'm not quite sold on his horse yet. 

    It does have a strand-based mane and tail. Don't know whether that will behave better than the one that comes with the base.

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 2,727

    JOdel said:

    Looks like Deepsea has waded into the pool now. He's done some very nice animal models in the past. I'm not quite sold on his horse yet. 

    It does have a strand-based mane and tail. Don't know whether that will behave better than the one that comes with the base.

    The Deepsea horse looks lovely to me, but what is the horse pros' take on him?  

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