How to make V4/M4 full body MATs?

I suppose I'd include Genesis in the ask as well. I know how to change forearms and hands and faces and heads separately in Carrara, but how do I create the full body layouts that I can just click on in my library? Like the full body MATs I purchase in the store? 

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Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,200

    You drag the coloured ball at the top of the shader window to your shader browser and save, to apply drag it from there to the coloured ball for another figure UV mapped the same.

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    But that's only changing individual arms, legs, face, etc, right? You can change the entire character MAT with color sphere? 

    Usually I save shader spheres in the bottom area there, but I didn't know you could apply a MAT to an entire figure using one sphere. All of the eye and toenail (or whatever) information is all contained in that one sphere? Like...how would it even know where to get the various JPEGs from? Wouldn't I first need to create the MAT for the legs, then upper arms, then hands, etc? 

    Basically I just want to be able to create exactly what I can buy in the store. Right now, I'll purchase a character, go in and change all of their JPEG files, and then click on that character icon and the altered JPEGs will reflect the change. 

    Do shaders bake in the information, or do they pull from existing JPEGs in order to reflect the MAT? For instance, if I were to go into a purchased character texture maps, change all of the JPEGs, save the primary shader (one it's been uploaded to the character), save the uppermost color sphere, could I then go back, change all of the JPEGs again and upload it to a new character and then save the uppermost color sphere again? Like, will Carrara decide it doesn't need those JPEGs? (Assuming, of course, that you can actually apply a character's full body MAT using nothing but a single color sphere).

    Thanks

  • If you are creating a character's skin from scratch using your own image maps in the various shading domains, you can do as Wendy suggested and save the entire character's skin, across all domains, to your browser, by selecting the Model or Actor in the figure hierarchy, and dragging and dropping the multi-colored ball at the top of the shading domain list into your desired directory in the Shader Browser. When you do so, Carrara will give you an opportunity to name the shader.

    To use the shader, drag the icon from the Shader browser and drop it onto the multi-colored ball at the top of your model's shading domain list. Basically the reverse of how you saved it. The shader will work seamlessly with models that share the same UVs. For instance, A4, V4, Steph 4, can all use the same shader. If you try a V4 shader on a Genesis, it will load all screwed up.

    The shader file refers back to original location of your image maps, so if you move them, you will be asked to find them. There is a way around this though. Before you save the shader, but after you've set it up the way you want with your own image maps, save the scene and choose the Save Internally option. After the save is complete, you can then save the figure's shader and the image maps should be saved internally to the .cbr file that is created in your Shader browser and not reference the external maps. Be warned though, that it will come at the price of a huge file if the maps are a decent resolution.

    A Poser .cr2 file does not contain the maps either. It just points to the textures folder (and appropriate sub-folders) in your runtime. Move the textures out of their default location and watch Poser and Studio ask for them, just as Carrara would.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited September 2015

    The Global shader is the Container for all the individual shaders, eg: arms, face, hands,.. etc

    Some products also come with Carrara Shaders,. such as the elite series for V4 / M4. and these show up in the carara browser as Global shaders, which can be dragged and dropped onto the figure's Global shader.

    Pic to help

    Making or adjusting your own shaders in cararra, you can save the "Global Shader" (multicoloured ball) by dragging it into the my shaders section of the carrara browser.

     

    Quote : "Do shaders bake in the information, or do they pull from existing JPEGs in order to reflect the MAT?"

    The texture maps you use in a shader, normally reference the physical location of those image (on your drive), rather than saving a copy of the images in the shader file,

    You could, for example,. load a figure,. jump into the shader editor and change all of the individual shaders,. then save the Global shader to the browser,. then load different Texture maps in all of the shaders and save the golbal shader agin (with a different name) and that global shader will reference whatever textures are used in that shader.

    Baking normally refers to a different process which creates texture maps which have other infomation such as lighting, already applied (baked in)

    a Poser "MAT" file is also a List of texture maps used, and multiple shading domains used, and the settings for each domain/texture map combination.

     

     

     

     

    Global shaders1.jpg
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    Post edited by 3DAGE on
  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    If you are creating a character's skin from scratch using your own image maps in the various shading domains, you can do as Wendy suggested and save the entire character's skin, across all domains, to your browser, by selecting the Model or Actor in the figure hierarchy, and dragging and dropping the multi-colored ball at the top of the shading domain list into your desired directory in the Shader Browser. When you do so, Carrara will give you an opportunity to name the shader.

    To use the shader, drag the icon from the Shader browser and drop it onto the multi-colored ball at the top of your model's shading domain list. Basically the reverse of how you saved it. The shader will work seamlessly with models that share the same UVs. For instance, A4, V4, Steph 4, can all use the same shader. If you try a V4 shader on a Genesis, it will load all screwed up.

    The shader file refers back to original location of your image maps, so if you move them, you will be asked to find them. There is a way around this though. Before you save the shader, but after you've set it up the way you want with your own image maps, save the scene and choose the Save Internally option. After the save is complete, you can then save the figure's shader and the image maps should be saved internally to the .cbr file that is created in your Shader browser and not reference the external maps. Be warned though, that it will come at the price of a huge file if the maps are a decent resolution.

    A Poser .cr2 file does not contain the maps either. It just points to the textures folder (and appropriate sub-folders) in your runtime. Move the textures out of their default location and watch Poser and Studio ask for them, just as Carrara would.

    Ah-ha. I think that will be exactly what I need. I've only ever used the pre-made textures to create my own textures with, so being able to only have to change a single full body texture, save the whole thing internally, and then change the texture map again for the next character, save internally, etc, should be exactly what I need. Right now my library is super bizarre because the character texture maps that I click on to load a purchased character look nothing like the character in the icon, Ya know? So this will be a big, big help and save me a ton of time and money. 

    And I've always got an extra TB of external drive space on hand, so file size isn't the end of the world. 

    Can't wait to get started on this. Thanks all! :)

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    Hi :)

    Just to clarify,.

    Unless you're moving files between computers, or you decide to manually move the folder containing your texture maps to a different location,  you don't need to store the texture maps "internally" in the shader file.

    saving "internally" will dramatically increase the file size, in most cases much larger than the original texture maps, as carrara stores internal images in a high res format.

    You can make a complete figure shader,(Global shader) save it to the browser,. jump back into the shader room, load different texture maps, adjust the settings to create another figure Skin shader,.. save it to the browser,. .. rinse and repeat. .. if you have the patience and energy :)

    Example,. the Elite shaders for Carrara,. are a set of carrara shaders built for the Elite textures for V4/M4,. the're supplied as "shaders" for the elite skin textures (there's no texture maps included with the Carrara shaders).

    The Cararra shaders reference the texture maps from your My Daz3D Library , or your Poser Runtime folder,. , or from wherever you've installed them.

    If you're using DIM,. then the concept of manually moving texture maps shouldn't really be an issue, since you can use DIM to uninstall a Product, and install it to a different location,. any shaders which used the old location should either be aware of the new location, or ask you to point to it.

    As EvilProducer mentions,. Poser and Daz files for loading a complete figure skin shader, also do not store the files internally,. they simply reference the files locally on your hard drive.

    This makes sense and saves file space since (if the images were stored internally in the shader),. any time you created a scene and saved it,. the shaders would also be saved with that scene, and that would mean the textures used in the shaders would also be repeatedly saved even when multiple shaders within a Global shader, actually use the same texture image EG: the "Limbs" texture map is used by the Legs, Arms, Hands, Feet, toenails fingernails, all using the same Texture image, but with different shader setting for shininess, bump etc.

    saving that internally would mean that multiple high res copies of that single image would be saved,. rather than referencing one image stored locally on your drive.

    There's not much sense in creating a carrara file which stores copies of the images used internally in the shader, unless you're moving the file to another system which doesn't have access to those files,

    I hope that makes sense

  • Thank you Andy. I also avoid saving internally to avoid huge file sizes. I only mentioned it, as it sounded like BC was asking about it without quite knowing the jargon.

    As Andy says, the files will be huge if you save them internally, as a lot of commercial textures are 2048X2048 pixels or more. Even though many are .jpg files, which is a lossy compression scheme, when Carrara saves them internally, it up-converts them to .tiff, which is a lossless compression, and if I recall correctly it may also up-convert the bit depth as well. This means that a modestly sized image map referenced from your hard drive would cause a much larger jump in file size for the Carrara scene if it is saved internally.

    For a simple scene, it may not do much, but if you have several figures, each with multiple shading domains and image maps for those domains all saved internally,, then I think even the 64 bit version of Carrara could choke on the scene, as you could easily approach dozens of texture maps for each figure.

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    Okay, so let's do a "for example".

    For example, I buy a character called Eve for my V4 model. It comes with morphs and texture maps. When I click on the Eve character's icon (relating to her texture maps) with V4 selected, those various texture maps then populate to the V4 charater.

    What I've always done in the past is go into Eve's texture maps and change them all to what I want. Then when I click on the Eve character, the changed texture maps (JPEGS) exhibit those changes. 

    But that means having to purchase characters to have libraries of full body texture maps because I've never been able to figure out how to make full body (one-click) texture maps of my own. And with Carrara, I've only ever been able to change one shading domain at a time (unless I wanted the whole character to be one solid color/image, etc). 

    What I'm reading here is that I can load that altered Eve texture the way I normally would, then I can save (internally) that entire collection of texture maps, but by doing so I would create massive files.

    so...the workaround would be to move all of Eve's texture map to a new folder, make the changes I want to make, load Eve's textures (one-click) onto V4. Point Carrara to the new folder where the textures are (when prompted), then save the global shader. The go back to Eve's shaders, create a second folder with those textures in it, alter those textures for a second character (leaving the first folder alone), and then keep repeating the process. 

    So in the end, I can have 10 folders filled with altered copies of Eve, and each time I load Eve I can choose which folder to reference, and then just save as a global shader, and henceforth Carrara will reference that folder that is connected to that saved shader. 

  • BC you seem to make it all so complicated

    you can have your maps wherever you like so long as the shader references them, in the same folder too if different file names, even the original V4 folder

    i have texture maps I have altered in gimp or converted with texture converter or map transfer in my original runtime texture folders I use in pz2 files, duf files and car files and they all find them if saved in the appropriate app, Poser, DS and Carrara

    in DS I use character and material preset duf files which is more or less the same thing Carrara is doing in its format.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    HI BC

    When you click on an icon in Daz Studio, Poser, or Carrara. to load a "skin texture set", what really happens is that a bunch of JPG images (texture maps) are loaded from a designated folder on your system,.and applied to that 3D model in your scene. 

    No images are encoded or saved within the shader files, simply the names and location of those images used is saved in the shader file.

    when you create your own, or adjust an existing shader,.. you would save that to the browser, and it will save a list of images, their locations, and individual channel settings used in that shader.

    In Carrara,. You would Drag and Drop a saved Carrara shader icon, onto the Multi-coloured ball at the top pf the shader list for a 3D model 

    you can also adjust each individual "shader",. or you can save a complete (Global) shader, which contains all of the individual shader settings and the name and location of the JPG images (Texture maps) used.

    In either case,. what's happening is that the program is loading a "list" of images from a folder on your system, and applying those with various settings to each of the parts of that model

    So, in carrara,. you would load a 3D model, which would nomally already have a set of texture maps applied to it,. then you can jump into the shader room, and perhaps change some settings in the different shader channels,. if you're happy with those settings, then you'd want to save that, so you can either save the Individual shader you're adjusting,. Or you can save the entire collection of shaders as a Global Sgader for  that 3d model.

    When you want to apply you're newly saved shader to a model, you can drag the Shader icon from Carrara's Browser, and drop in onto the Multi-coloured ball at the top of the Shaders list for that 3D model.

    at no point in this process are any images being saved or encoded into the shader,... they're all located in a folder on your system. where your programs can find them.

    So, all these programs essentially use the same system of saving a List of the images used, and their locations, as well as the individual settings for each channel of the shader, to create a One Click, simple to use ..full body skin loader.... or in Carrara's case, a Drag and Drop, Global shader.

    hope that makes sense :)

     

     

  • And just to reiterate what Wendy and Andy have said, you can load a skin texture onto a V4 from the content folder, open the various shader domains to see the texture maps associated with it, such as limbs or torso, and then use the various shader functions to adjust the appearance of the texture. For instance, you could adjust highlight and shininess, use a multiplier with the image map in the color channel to darken or lighten the skin, etc. All those settings, in addition to the references for the image maps will be saved for the entire figure's shading domains when saved to the Carrara Shader Browser. The image maps themselves will not be altered.

    You can find the image maps themselves in whatever Runtime's Texture folder they are stored in, and edit them- well, I would copy them and edit the copy. Anyway, you can edit the copy in an image editor and re-save it to the original texture folder if you wish. I think that's what Wendy was getting at.

    You could copy the image maps to folder/directory of your choice and build the shader from scratch if you want, but that can be tedious, and it would amount to the same thing as referencing a runtime folder structure if it is saved locally. As Wendy says, why get overly complicated?

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    What complicates things is if you open up, say, the hand of your V4 model after you've uploaded a texture Map. The hand will be a part or a larger JPEG including hands, forearms, etc. If you were to take that identical texture map and apply it JUST to the hand...it'll turn out bizarre. 

    That's where the premade texture maps come in. I buy a texture map, change the JPEGS in that texture map in Photoshop, and then click on the icon for the V4 character whose texture maps I changed, as the changes appear. 

    So to do that again and again with different characters, I need to either know how to create those complete texture maps that people sell in the DAZ store, or I need to be able to assign various different character Maps to a single character (by way of removing all of its texture maps and putting them in folders so that Carrara requests that I find them. So for "face" I can tell Carrara to use the "new face 1" JPEG, the for the next character I can say use "new face 2", etc. 

    Those seem to be the only two options. 

  • For a mil 4 figure such as V4, the hand is part of the limb shading domain, so yes, to blend the hand in with the rest of the limb, you would need to edit the texture map. If you have a Pro version of Carrara, you should have a 3D paint tool. Have you tried that? It allows layering if you select to save the texture as a Photoshop file I believe.

    I believe V4 and all come with the texture templates. At least they did. They were a seperate zip file, so in your DAZ 3D account, look in your product library for your base figures and see if there is an option to download the texture templates. I don't know how they do it with Genesis 1 and 2, as they can have different UVs depending on the character. I do read once in awhile about skin kits or merchant resources in threads from time to time.

    Anyway, if there are texture templates available still, they could help with your creations.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    Snow SUltan's seam guide templates are all here    http://www.snowsultan.com/3.html

  • Chohole said:

    Snow SUltan's seam guide templates are all here    http://www.snowsultan.com/3.html

    Thanks Cho!

    I looked in my product library and couldn't find the V4/M4 texture templates. I have them, as I DLed them long before all this DIM nonsense, but I don't think I can share them.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,165
    edited September 2015

    If someone wants a separate shading domain for the hands distinct from the limbs, or the thumbs distinct from the hands, etc., one can create new shading domains.

    Also, the really ambitious can use the 3D paint tools to paint a custom texture map directly on the V4/M4 models.  That is if you don't want to use the templates in photoshop/Gimp or whatever.  The most obvious use is for things like scars and tattoos (there is a stamp tool among the 3D paint tools), but it can also be used for eyeshadow, tight clothing, or even a full skin map.  Using the 3D paint tools for bump, reflection, and other maps can help sell scars, fabric seams, etc. 

     

    Test

     

     

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    Chohole said:

    Snow SUltan's seam guide templates are all here    http://www.snowsultan.com/3.html

    Thanks Cho!

    I looked in my product library and couldn't find the V4/M4 texture templates. I have them, as I DLed them long before all this DIM nonsense, but I don't think I can share them.

    Snow's are the official ones as Daz commissioned him to do them and let him distribute them, and the seam guides are great, very helpful

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    Perhaps we should have started with....

    If you want to create your own skin texture image maps (jpg images) you can do that in photoshop (or any other Multi-layer image editor) by using the downloadable "Texture template".

    For each figure in the store,.. there should be a (Wire-frame) "texturing template" which can be used as a Guide to layout photo's or paint in color to create a set of texture images for each of the models "shading domains" EG: Torso, Limbs, Face etc,..

    You mention changing the jpegs fom a texture set that you/ve bought,. can I ask what changes you're making, or rather,.. Why buy a texture set if that's not the skin look you were after ?

    Also,. it seems from what you're saying that you're editing the original images you purchased in photoshop then saving the edited version, and overwriting the original images which came with the product, so that it loads when you click the icon in the 3d program.

    The common method would be to save any "edited" texture maps with a slightly different name, which still refers to the original product,.. but also indicates the changes you've made,.. EG: Vic4_dark,.. Mic4_lava

    you would normally save these new edited textures into the same folder as the original product with a different name....rather than overwriting the original; product images.

    The next step would be to jump into your 3D program,. load your 3D model, go to the Shader area, and then change / Swap,. the default textures which load with the model, for the textures which you've created or edited in an image editor.

    once that's done and you're happy with the look you've created, you'd save that global "Shader or Material" to create an "icon" which will Apply that to the model with a click, or in Carrara';s case,.. a Drag 'n' Drop of a shader "icon"

    The reason I ask about changing images in photoshop is that some colour correction or adjustments in tonality can be acomplished directly in the shader room, without overwriting your original purchaed product files,..by using functions like multiply, overlay, add etc,. and Cararra also has a multi-layer shader component which allows you to use several images or colours, and use different blending modes and opacity to create the look you're after. 

    The shader system has many functions which can be used to change the look of your models.

    I think it would be good for you to explore the shader room and examine some of the different shader options, and shader functions, to see what's possible without editing an image.

    If you decided to create your own texure set, you would normally create a folder for your "working images" on your system,. in your Content Library / textures / (your folder) and store your images there, then you'd open your 3D program, load up your 3D model,. go to the Shaders area,, and begin changing out the default texture images,. with your newly created texture images, ..Once your happy,. save that Shader to ceate an icon which you can use to Apply that complete shader to your 3D model

    that's essentially how a "product" texture set is created. and the Shader Icon which loads all the textures.

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591
    edited September 2015
    3DAGE said:

    Perhaps we should have started with....

    If you want to create your own skin texture image maps (jpg images) you can do that in photoshop (or any other Multi-layer image editor) by using the downloadable "Texture template".

    For each figure in the store,.. there should be a (Wire-frame) "texturing template" which can be used as a Guide to layout photo's or paint in color to create a set of texture images for each of the models "shading domains" EG: Torso, Limbs, Face etc,..

    You mention changing the jpegs fom a texture set that you/ve bought,. can I ask what changes you're making, or rather,.. Why buy a texture set if that's not the skin look you were after ?

    Also,. it seems from what you're saying that you're editing the original images you purchased in photoshop then saving the edited version, and overwriting the original images which came with the product, so that it loads when you click the icon in the 3d program.

    The common method would be to save any "edited" texture maps with a slightly different name, which still refers to the original product,.. but also indicates the changes you've made,.. EG: Vic4_dark,.. Mic4_lava

    you would normally save these new edited textures into the same folder as the original product with a different name....rather than overwriting the original; product images.

    The next step would be to jump into your 3D program,. load your 3D model, go to the Shader area, and then change / Swap,. the default textures which load with the model, for the textures which you've created or edited in an image editor.

    once that's done and you're happy with the look you've created, you'd save that global "Shader or Material" to create an "icon" which will Apply that to the model with a click, or in Carrara';s case,.. a Drag 'n' Drop of a shader "icon"

    The reason I ask about changing images in photoshop is that some colour correction or adjustments in tonality can be acomplished directly in the shader room, without overwriting your original purchaed product files,..by using functions like multiply, overlay, add etc,. and Cararra also has a multi-layer shader component which allows you to use several images or colours, and use different blending modes and opacity to create the look you're after. 

    The shader system has many functions which can be used to change the look of your models.

    I think it would be good for you to explore the shader room and examine some of the different shader options, and shader functions, to see what's possible without editing an image.

    If you decided to create your own texure set, you would normally create a folder for your "working images" on your system,. in your Content Library / textures / (your folder) and store your images there, then you'd open your 3D program, load up your 3D model,. go to the Shaders area,, and begin changing out the default texture images,. with your newly created texture images, ..Once your happy,. save that Shader to ceate an icon which you can use to Apply that complete shader to your 3D model

    that's essentially how a "product" texture set is created. and the Shader Icon which loads all the textures.

    Yeah, there aren't any skin textures for what I do, which is to use a combination of Flash and PS to draw everything I want on the different texture maps. 

    Speaking to your "swap" concept, that's the problem, though -- you can't swap out texture maps on individual shading domains and get the result you want. I ran into this giant issue when I started using multi-shaders in 7.2PRO. You can swap out shading domains, but not texture maps. It's been incredibly frustrating, but it's just a limitation of Carrara (that no one I've talked to so far has ever been able to find a workaround for). 

    If someone knows how to swap out texture maps across multiple shading domains, I am 100% interested in gaining that knowledge. Right now I can *apply* a full body texture map to a character. But I've found no way to apply a full body texture map to multiple channels, let alone swap out a texture map that's affecting a hand or a forearm, etc. Carrara demands that you either use the technical magic of a full body texture map in one go, or you can address individual shading domains, but you can't apply a LEG/FOOT/TOE texture map to a foot. Just doesn't work. And, so far as I've encountered, there is no "Hand" texture map that can be applied to a hand shader domain. There's usually Face, Torso, Legs/Feet, Head/Neck, Arms/Hands, etc. And those aren't applied via shader domains, they're doing some gobbily gook wherein they're talking to the program. 

    So what I've always had to do is to change a texture map in PS, like I said, and then when I create my multi-shaders I do my best to copy the textures from the parts of the texture map that I'm needing (like, say, for a hand), and then I create a separate file (called, say, "Hand skin") and save that as a JPEG and then after my texture map is loaded, I go to the secondary shader in the multi-shader line and go to the hand domain and apply that JPEG. But it's a shoddy workaround, especially if you're dealing with anything that has continuous lines. It's a limitation of Carrara, though...so I don't think there's anything to be done about the multi-shader mixer issue. Other than creating a bunch of individual JPEGs for each shading domain. Which, again, becomes an issue when you're trying to seamlessly blend with the full body texture map you've created.

     

    Post edited by BC Rice on
  • I guess I'm confused about your terminology. The limbs, torso, head, face, etc. are all separate domains. Some will use the same UVs such as the Torso, Nipple, Head, etc. domains. The limbs and fingernails, toenails all use the same UVs as well. If you consolidate your textures, then it is true, that those domains will use one shader to shade them, but you don't have to do that. Your head domain can share the torso shader, or you can load your own map or change the settings, and as long as the torso shader and the head shader are different they can look completely different.

    Chohole linked to texture templates above which have seam guides to help align the seams between the different domains. Also, if you use 3D paint, you can paint choose to paint across domains, so that could help lining up different domains.

    UVs for the limbs, torso, face, eyes, etc. are all laid out in a fairly standard way, in that the domains are unwrapped as islands on a virtual grid. They are also laid out on different grids, such as the face, and limbs being on a separate grid from each other. At least that is the way if you look at the image maps and templates. These were originally set up for Poser and Studio, so I'm not sure how Carrara would be different than everybody else.

    In Poser and Studio a full body material file is like how we described saving a multi-domain shader. The material file isn't the materials at all. It is telling Poser, Studio or Carrara what maps it wants, where to find the image maps (texture folder), which domains the maps are appplied to, and what the values are that define the appearance of the maps or the effect the map performs, such as an alpha map.

    As I said, the same thing happens with Carrara's multi-channel shader. The difference is that ideally, you have fixed any translation issues from loading a Poser mat file into Carrara, such as the color multiplier issue or the highlight/shininess issue. You would also ideally, make other tweaks and adjustments to the different shaders in the domains to add the effects you want to the figure and then save the whole thing as described in the other posts. If you have saved locally, the maps you loaded are referenced by the shader, so as long as their location is not changed, then Carrara will be able to find them. Even custom created maps. All the values will be saved with that multi-channel shader as well.

    I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just confused a bit.

    I'll stick this one up again. It's hot, and what goes better with heat than a cheesy bikini car wash? ;-)

    The two figures started out with exactly the same Carrara optimized shaders that came bundled with Carrara 7.2 Pro. I added wet maps that I had bought from DAZ to the Highlight channel in all the domains. So, the domains that used the torso maps, had the appropriate wet map loaded in the Highlight channel. I then made other adjustments that I normally do to fake SSS and such. I saved the multi-domain shader with a unique name in my Skin directory in my shader browser.

    I wanted an Asian look for the second model, and as I said, she started with the exact same shader as the white model. What I did was to change the eye color, and add a color multiplier to the Color channel, so that one slot had the image map, and the other slot had a very light tan color. I copied the tan color, and opened the other domain's shaders and changed the Color channel to a multiplier, which retained the original map in the first slot, and then pasted the copied color in the second slot. I did this until all the skin textures across all the domains had the mutliplier.

    Since both models used the same master shader, I saved the altered shader to the browser again, but changed the name to indicate it was for A4. I then reloaded my original saved, wet, Caucasian, shader onto the Caucasian V4. I now have two master multi-domain shaders in the same scene, which use the same maps, for very different looks.

    Bikini-Car-wash-GI.jpg
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  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    I guess I'm confused about your terminology. The limbs, torso, head, face, etc. are all separate domains. Some will use the same UVs such as the Torso, Nipple, Head, etc. domains. The limbs and fingernails, toenails all use the same UVs as well. If you consolidate your textures, then it is true, that those domains will use one shader to shade them, but you don't have to do that. Your head domain can share the torso shader, or you can load your own map or change the settings, and as long as the torso shader and the head shader are different they can look completely different.

    Chohole linked to texture templates above which have seam guides to help align the seams between the different domains. Also, if you use 3D paint, you can paint choose to paint across domains, so that could help lining up different domains.

    UVs for the limbs, torso, face, eyes, etc. are all laid out in a fairly standard way, in that the domains are unwrapped as islands on a virtual grid. They are also laid out on different grids, such as the face, and limbs being on a separate grid from each other. At least that is the way if you look at the image maps and templates. These were originally set up for Poser and Studio, so I'm not sure how Carrara would be different than everybody else.

    In Poser and Studio a full body material file is like how we described saving a multi-domain shader. The material file isn't the materials at all. It is telling Poser, Studio or Carrara what maps it wants, where to find the image maps (texture folder), which domains the maps are appplied to, and what the values are that define the appearance of the maps or the effect the map performs, such as an alpha map.

    As I said, the same thing happens with Carrara's multi-channel shader. The difference is that ideally, you have fixed any translation issues from loading a Poser mat file into Carrara, such as the color multiplier issue or the highlight/shininess issue. You would also ideally, make other tweaks and adjustments to the different shaders in the domains to add the effects you want to the figure and then save the whole thing as described in the other posts. If you have saved locally, the maps you loaded are referenced by the shader, so as long as their location is not changed, then Carrara will be able to find them. Even custom created maps. All the values will be saved with that multi-channel shader as well.

    I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just confused a bit.

    I'll stick this one up again. It's hot, and what goes better with heat than a cheesy bikini car wash? ;-)

    The two figures started out with exactly the same Carrara optimized shaders that came bundled with Carrara 7.2 Pro. I added wet maps that I had bought from DAZ to the Highlight channel in all the domains. So, the domains that used the torso maps, had the appropriate wet map loaded in the Highlight channel. I then made other adjustments that I normally do to fake SSS and such. I saved the multi-domain shader with a unique name in my Skin directory in my shader browser.

    I wanted an Asian look for the second model, and as I said, she started with the exact same shader as the white model. What I did was to change the eye color, and add a color multiplier to the Color channel, so that one slot had the image map, and the other slot had a very light tan color. I copied the tan color, and opened the other domain's shaders and changed the Color channel to a multiplier, which retained the original map in the first slot, and then pasted the copied color in the second slot. I did this until all the skin textures across all the domains had the mutliplier.

    Since both models used the same master shader, I saved the altered shader to the browser again, but changed the name to indicate it was for A4. I then reloaded my original saved, wet, Caucasian, shader onto the Caucasian V4. I now have two master multi-domain shaders in the same scene, which use the same maps, for very different looks.

    I think you'd have to try it the way I do things to see the limitations. 

    Take your, say, torso texture. Apply it like you normally would, then open the multi shader mixer and try to apply your torso shader to your model. 

    So so far as I've experienced, Carrara does not allow you to apply a texture map across multiple domains unless you're working with whatever code is telling these textures to populate correctly, and that can only be done on the initial topmost global shader. 

    If you can figure out how to open the multi shader mixer and apply a texture map that hits several different domains, that is information I'd love to benefit from. 

  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    Also, just so we're using the same terminology, you said that a texture map can affect several different domains at the same time. I get that, but what I don't get is how do I do that? How do I create a, say, torso/head texture map, and apply it to the torso/head "domain". Because in Carrara, when you open shaders, you're not given a choice to apply something to "head and torso" you're given "hand" "face" "forearm" etc. 

    I'be always chalked it up to magic code business, Ya know? So how do I do it, as a layman in Carrara? Maybe if I can know how to do that, I can figure out how to repeat the process in the multi channel mixer. 

  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited September 2015

    I'm sorry - I am really confused about what you are trying to do. I've read and re-read your posts and I you seem to be saying that you can do what you want in other programs but not in Carrara, which certainly might be the case, but I can't understand what it is you are doing and looking at the responses from others I think maybe no one else understands either.  Any figure you open in Carrara will have the exact same material/shading domains as it does in DAZ Studio or Poser.

    BC Rice said:

    . Because in Carrara, when you open shaders, you're not given a choice to apply something to "head and torso" you're given "hand" "face" "forearm" etc.  

    Would it be possible to give us a step-by-step example of how you want it to work, what the starting point would be and what your desired end point is?  

    It originally sounded like you just wanted to make your own character texture presets and the how-to for that was answered several times in different ways:

    1. Take whatever maps you are using as your base and adjust them however you want in your image editing program of choice
    2. Save those altered image files wherever you want, with different names from the originals (you don't want to overwrite the originals in case you want them for something else later)
    3. In Carrara select your figure and go to the texture room
    4. In each material zone, replace the image maps with your changed ones and adjust to taste - this can take awhile, but you only need to do this once per set of character textures.  You might want to start with one of your purchased character mats already applied so you can see which textures are applied to what material zones
    5. When done drag and drop the multicolored ball to your browser - this part creates the full body "mat" that you wanted, which tells Carrara to load all your altered image textures as you set them up in the prior step.  It does not save the images as part of the "mat," they stay wherever you put them
    6. When you want to apply that character "mat" just drag it from your browser and drop it on the muticolored ball for your character and it will apply your altered images to the appropriate spots (which you setup in step 4 above)
    7. Repeat steps 4-5 as many times as necessary if you have more character "mats" that you want to create - these files are actually not that big because the images are stored wherever you originally saved them when you changed them in step 2

     

    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • BC Rice said:

    Also, just so we're using the same terminology, you said that a texture map can affect several different domains at the same time. I get that, but what I don't get is how do I do that? How do I create a, say, torso/head texture map, and apply it to the torso/head "domain". Because in Carrara, when you open shaders, you're not given a choice to apply something to "head and torso" you're given "hand" "face" "forearm" etc. 

    I'be always chalked it up to magic code business, Ya know? So how do I do it, as a layman in Carrara? Maybe if I can know how to do that, I can figure out how to repeat the process in the multi channel mixer. 

    So, for an example, going by the shading tab for V4, the domains that use the same map are, SkinHip, SkinTorso, Nipple, SkinHead, and SkinNeck. They all use the same image maps, but when you load a V4 from the Content Browser, each one of those domains will have its own shader that references the same maps. They can each be adjusted individually, so you could ramp up the Highlight and Shininess in the SkinNeck shader and it will look very shiny and the rest of the shaders that use that map will not.

    Now, all that being said, you can set a preference to consolidate duplicate shaders on load, or you can do it manually. Assuming that SkinTorso, SkinHip, etc. haven't been changed, they should all be the same image maps and values. Consolidating them, will get rid of the duplicate shaders for those domains and use just one shader for all those domains, so that changing the shader for SkinNeck will be reflected in the other domains that use the same shader.

    My first screen shot shows the shading tab of a default V4 loaded from the Content Browser. Notice that under each of the domains I listed above, they have a different shader listed for each domain, with a name that matches the domain that shader is for.

    One of the issues with Carrara translating Poser shaders, is that Carrara sometimes adds a color multiplier to the shader's color channel making the figure look greenish or bluish. In the second screen shot I fixed the multiplier problem in the hip domain's shader. Notice that all the other domains still have the off-color.

    I used Undo, and reverted the figure's shader so that I could use the Consolidate Duplicate Shaders command, as seen in the third screen shot.

    If you look at the Shading tab in the fourth screen shot, you will notice that the SkinHip, SkinTorso, etc. domains have been changed so they all use the Nipple shader.

    The fifth screen shot shows what happens when I fix the Nipple shader to get rid of the multiplier in the color channel. All the domains that use the Nipple shader are effected.

    Sometimes you want certain domains to remain unaffected by the Consolidate Duplicate Shaders command. What I do, is if I want a specific domain to have a specific look, I adjust that domain's shader before I consolidate them. With a different value, it will remain its own master shader.

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  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591

    Okay, so if you have a JPEG texture that covers head, torso and nipple, where do you put that texture map in Carrara?

    because if you upload the JPEG to nipple, it's not going to result in the nipple portion of your texture map JPEG covering the nipple. It's going to put the entire JPEG just on the nipple. So how do I tell Carrara that I want these three zones covered with one texture map. 

    As a separate item, this is what I would like to be able to do:

    1) Create texture maps that cover multiple portions of the V4 figure. For instance, a ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG. I can do that, no problem.

    2) Open Carrara and apply that texture map JPEG to multple shading domains (e.g. ARM/HAND/NAILS) without having to use a premade figure's texture maps (as in, with a purchased figure, I just click the icon and some magic happens wherein it spreads one texture map across several domains and those domains understand how they're supposed to populate). I'm assuming this is some kind of special coding or something, as it's nothing intuitive that I can do in Carrara. Like, if I apply that ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG to just the hand, it's not going to populate correctly. 

    3) After opening the multi-channel mixer, I would like to be able to repeat step 2 in the other channels. This might be possible via a saved global shader that references premade texture maps that are saved on the computer (like you mentioned), but I'd still have to have #2 figured out to do that. 

  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    edited September 2015
    BC Rice said:

    Okay, so if you have a JPEG texture that covers head, torso and nipple, where do you put that texture map in Carrara?

     

    It should go in the Color channel of all the material zones that use that map.  For V4 that would be any zone that starts with "2," such as 2_SkinHip, 2_SkinTorse, 2_Nipple, 2_SkinHead, 2_SkinNeck.

    BC Rice said:

    because if you upload the JPEG to nipple, it's not going to result in the nipple portion of your texture map JPEG covering the nipple. It's going to put the entire JPEG just on the nipple. So how do I tell Carrara that I want these three zones covered with one texture map. 

     

    This is incorrect.  If you apply the jpeg to the nipple it will not result in the entire map covering the nipple.  Only the part of the image assigned to the nipples will be applied to the nipples; you don't have to do anything for this to happen, it was taken care of when the creator of the figure UV mapped it.  You just need to make sure that your new nipple texture is on the right part of the image - look at an existing texture for that figure to see where it should go. 

    BC Rice said:

    2) Open Carrara and apply that texture map JPEG to multple shading domains (e.g. ARM/HAND/NAILS) without having to use a premade figure's texture maps (as in, with a purchased figure, I just click the icon and some magic happens wherein it spreads one texture map across several domains and those domains understand how they're supposed to populate). I'm assuming this is some kind of special coding or something, as it's nothing intuitive that I can do in Carrara. Like, if I apply that ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG to just the hand, it's not going to populate correctly. 

     

    1. Select the model level of your character
    2. Go to the texture room
    3. Under each material zone open up that material and change the Color channel to a Texture Map and load your texture there - for example, for a V4, load your image with the arm/hand/nails to any zone that starts with "3," such as 3_SkinArm, 3_SkinForearm, 3_Fingernail, 3_SkinLeg, 3_SkinFoot, 3_Toenail
    4. Repeat for all zones - on V4 and Genesis,any material zone that starts with a number uses the same texture map as any other zone with that material (all the 3_whatever zones use the same map, all the 4_zones use the same map, etc.)

    For Victoria 4 the basic maps usually used are Face, Torso, Limbs, Mouth, Eyes and Lashes and those maps are applied to the material zones as listed below.

    • Face: any zone that starts with "1," such as 1_Eyesocket, 1_SkinFace, 1_Lip, 1_Nostril, 1_Eyebrow
    • Torso: any zone that starts with "2," such as 2_SkinHip, 2_SkinTorse, 2_Nipple, 2_SkinHead, 2_SkinNeck
    • Limbs: anyzone that starts with "3," such as 3_SkinArm, 3_SkinForearm, 3_Fingernail, 3_SkinLeg, 3_SkinFoot, 3_Toenail
    • Mouth: any zone that starts with "4," such as 4_InnerMouth, 4_Gums, 4_Teeth, 4_Tongue
    • Eyes and Lacrimal: any zone that starts with "5," such as5_Lacrimal, 5_Cornea, 5_Sclera, 5_Iris, 5_Pupil
    • Lashes: 6_Eyelash

    Genesis and Gensis 2 use pretty similar setups, although the exact names may vary and Genesis 2 has an additional eye surface material.

    Once you have all your maps assigned to the right material zones you can then drag and drop the top-level mutlicolored ball to your browser to save it for use on other characters.

     

    Post edited by MarkIsSleepy on
  • BC Rice said:

    Okay, so if you have a JPEG texture that covers head, torso and nipple, where do you put that texture map in Carrara?

    because if you upload the JPEG to nipple, it's not going to result in the nipple portion of your texture map JPEG covering the nipple. It's going to put the entire JPEG just on the nipple. So how do I tell Carrara that I want these three zones covered with one texture map. 

    As a separate item, this is what I would like to be able to do:

    1) Create texture maps that cover multiple portions of the V4 figure. For instance, a ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG. I can do that, no problem.

    2) Open Carrara and apply that texture map JPEG to multple shading domains (e.g. ARM/HAND/NAILS) without having to use a premade figure's texture maps (as in, with a purchased figure, I just click the icon and some magic happens wherein it spreads one texture map across several domains and those domains understand how they're supposed to populate). I'm assuming this is some kind of special coding or something, as it's nothing intuitive that I can do in Carrara. Like, if I apply that ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG to just the hand, it's not going to populate correctly. 

    3) After opening the multi-channel mixer, I would like to be able to repeat step 2 in the other channels. This might be possible via a saved global shader that references premade texture maps that are saved on the computer (like you mentioned), but I'd still have to have #2 figured out to do that. 

    If you create a new master shader for the nipple, and import a map that follows the UV mapping for the figure, then the map will be projected on the model correctly, and not project the entire torso map on just the nipple domain. If the map doesn't follow the template, such as applying a texture map from a different figure, such as a Genesis or V3, then you could get the problem you describe.

    I would still suggest downloading the UV templates that Chohole linked to above. If you keep your textures within the islands, then they should map correctly.

  • This partial screen shot of the torso texture for V4 has the nipple domain shaded so that if you create your own texture using the UV template, you know where to "paint" the nipples and have them line up correctly when the texture is projected on the model. There are also color coded areas along the edges of the island that indicate where they match up with other domains. There's even a legend that explains what they mean.
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  • BC RiceBC Rice Posts: 591
    MDO2010 said:
    BC Rice said:

    Okay, so if you have a JPEG texture that covers head, torso and nipple, where do you put that texture map in Carrara?

     

    It should go in the Color channel of all the material zones that use that map.  For V4 that would be any zone that starts with "2," such as 2_SkinHip, 2_SkinTorse, 2_Nipple, 2_SkinHead, 2_SkinNeck.

    BC Rice said:

    because if you upload the JPEG to nipple, it's not going to result in the nipple portion of your texture map JPEG covering the nipple. It's going to put the entire JPEG just on the nipple. So how do I tell Carrara that I want these three zones covered with one texture map. 

     

    This is incorrect.  If you apply the jpeg to the nipple it will not result in the entire map covering the nipple.  Only the part of the image assigned to the nipples will be applied to the nipples; you don't have to do anything for this to happen, it was taken care of when the creator of the figure UV mapped it.  You just need to make sure that your new nipple texture is on the right part of the image - look at an existing texture for that figure to see where it should go. 

    BC Rice said:

    2) Open Carrara and apply that texture map JPEG to multple shading domains (e.g. ARM/HAND/NAILS) without having to use a premade figure's texture maps (as in, with a purchased figure, I just click the icon and some magic happens wherein it spreads one texture map across several domains and those domains understand how they're supposed to populate). I'm assuming this is some kind of special coding or something, as it's nothing intuitive that I can do in Carrara. Like, if I apply that ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG to just the hand, it's not going to populate correctly. 

     

    1. Select the model level of your character
    2. Go to the texture room
    3. Under each material zone open up that material and change the Color channel to a Texture Map and load your texture there - for example, for a V4, load your image with the arm/hand/nails to any zone that starts with "3," such as 3_SkinArm, 3_SkinForearm, 3_Fingernail, 3_SkinLeg, 3_SkinFoot, 3_Toenail
    4. Repeat for all zones - on V4 and Genesis,any material zone that starts with a number uses the same texture map as any other zone with that material (all the 3_whatever zones use the same map, all the 4_zones use the same map, etc.)

    For Victoria 4 the basic maps usually used are Face, Torso, Limbs, Mouth, Eyes and Lashes and those maps are applied to the material zones as listed below.

    • Face: any zone that starts with "1," such as 1_Eyesocket, 1_SkinFace, 1_Lip, 1_Nostril, 1_Eyebrow
    • Torso: any zone that starts with "2," such as 2_SkinHip, 2_SkinTorse, 2_Nipple, 2_SkinHead, 2_SkinNeck
    • Limbs: anyzone that starts with "3," such as 3_SkinArm, 3_SkinForearm, 3_Fingernail, 3_SkinLeg, 3_SkinFoot, 3_Toenail
    • Mouth: any zone that starts with "4," such as 4_InnerMouth, 4_Gums, 4_Teeth, 4_Tongue
    • Eyes and Lacrimal: any zone that starts with "5," such as5_Lacrimal, 5_Cornea, 5_Sclera, 5_Iris, 5_Pupil
    • Lashes: 6_Eyelash

    Genesis and Gensis 2 use pretty similar setups, although the exact names may vary and Genesis 2 has an additional eye surface material.

    Once you have all your maps assigned to the right material zones you can then drag and drop the top-level mutlicolored ball to your browser to save it for use on other characters.

     

    That hasn't been my experience. If you load the V4 figure and then open the hand shader and apply a texture map to it that I cluf

    MDO2010 said:
    BC Rice said:

    Okay, so if you have a JPEG texture that covers head, torso and nipple, where do you put that texture map in Carrara?

     

    It should go in the Color channel of all the material zones that use that map.  For V4 that would be any zone that starts with "2," such as 2_SkinHip, 2_SkinTorse, 2_Nipple, 2_SkinHead, 2_SkinNeck.

    BC Rice said:

    because if you upload the JPEG to nipple, it's not going to result in the nipple portion of your texture map JPEG covering the nipple. It's going to put the entire JPEG just on the nipple. So how do I tell Carrara that I want these three zones covered with one texture map. 

     

    This is incorrect.  If you apply the jpeg to the nipple it will not result in the entire map covering the nipple.  Only the part of the image assigned to the nipples will be applied to the nipples; you don't have to do anything for this to happen, it was taken care of when the creator of the figure UV mapped it.  You just need to make sure that your new nipple texture is on the right part of the image - look at an existing texture for that figure to see where it should go. 

    BC Rice said:

    2) Open Carrara and apply that texture map JPEG to multple shading domains (e.g. ARM/HAND/NAILS) without having to use a premade figure's texture maps (as in, with a purchased figure, I just click the icon and some magic happens wherein it spreads one texture map across several domains and those domains understand how they're supposed to populate). I'm assuming this is some kind of special coding or something, as it's nothing intuitive that I can do in Carrara. Like, if I apply that ARM/HAND/NAILS texture map JPEG to just the hand, it's not going to populate correctly. 

     

    1. Select the model level of your character
    2. Go to the texture room
    3. Under each material zone open up that material and change the Color channel to a Texture Map and load your texture there - for example, for a V4, load your image with the arm/hand/nails to any zone that starts with "3," such as 3_SkinArm, 3_SkinForearm, 3_Fingernail, 3_SkinLeg, 3_SkinFoot, 3_Toenail
    4. Repeat for all zones - on V4 and Genesis,any material zone that starts with a number uses the same texture map as any other zone with that material (all the 3_whatever zones use the same map, all the 4_zones use the same map, etc.)

    For Victoria 4 the basic maps usually used are Face, Torso, Limbs, Mouth, Eyes and Lashes and those maps are applied to the material zones as listed below.

    • Face: any zone that starts with "1," such as 1_Eyesocket, 1_SkinFace, 1_Lip, 1_Nostril, 1_Eyebrow
    • Torso: any zone that starts with "2," such as 2_SkinHip, 2_SkinTorse, 2_Nipple, 2_SkinHead, 2_SkinNeck
    • Limbs: anyzone that starts with "3," such as 3_SkinArm, 3_SkinForearm, 3_Fingernail, 3_SkinLeg, 3_SkinFoot, 3_Toenail
    • Mouth: any zone that starts with "4," such as 4_InnerMouth, 4_Gums, 4_Teeth, 4_Tongue
    • Eyes and Lacrimal: any zone that starts with "5," such as5_Lacrimal, 5_Cornea, 5_Sclera, 5_Iris, 5_Pupil
    • Lashes: 6_Eyelash

    Genesis and Gensis 2 use pretty similar setups, although the exact names may vary and Genesis 2 has an additional eye surface material.

    Once you have all your maps assigned to the right material zones you can then drag and drop the top-level mutlicolored ball to your browser to save it for use on other characters.

     

    Whoa. I swear that I tried this a hundred different ways in 7.2 and it never worked. But I just tried it now in 8.5 (which I just recently picked up) and it worked. 

    So...problem solved. I don't understand it, but it totally does exactly like you said. Even if the ears, nipples, etc, is in the same map with the torso, when you apply it to a shading domain for the torso, it totally knows what to do with it. 

    Cool beans! Thanks all! :D

  • I haven't really had that issue with it in C7.2 Pro myself, either. Not unless I'm using the maps for the wrong figures, such as trying to use a mil3 map on a mil4 figure.
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