Expanding Rendertimes is an Improvement?
cosmo71
Posts: 3,609
in The Commons
Well I have done some test-renders with g2m darius and g3f rebecca all in 3Delight because Iray would take to long anyway but even 3Delight last much longer than with the good old textures of V4 and M4 even one have used elite skin shaders and elite skin textures and the result of this new renders is not so much better that much longer rendertimes are justified. Really for me that whole new Genreation stuff with new shaders is not really an improvement, my opinion
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The problem for me is, if you want to make a spot render just to see how a part of an image would look it also takes much time. 3 - 5 minutes waiting until something happens. The whole rendertime the scene is a bit longer in 3Delight but that I can live with. What really sucks is that the spot renders are longer.
With an Elite skin shader I had to wait 1-2 minutes.
Personally I find the ''new Genreation stuff with new shaders'' a big improvement and wouldn't go back to the gen 4 if you paid me. Longer render times are sometimes the price you have to pay for improved renders, let alone the versatility that the new genesis range give.
it is not about the rendertime in general but if you want to do a spotrender and have to wait 3-5 minutes until something happens that is ... grrrr and if it comes to that skin textures of two characters are in the spotrender than the waiting time doubles ... that so grrrr
If you have such a problem with waiting 3-4 minutes then don't use the AoA shaders, or any HD morphs.
sometimes I need a spotrender just to see if the figure fits right to an object because of displacement maps I do not need a HQ spot it need just to know if the character and the object collides. An improvement would be a spotrender that can show only that.
Compared to DS4.6 DS4.8 needs much more time to load expressions for v4, also grrrrr
All that waiting time is for the pre computation of SSS. You can speed up the time by turning off SSS for the surfaces you aren't rendering, or if, as you say, you're happy with the old pre SSS days, you can turn it off entirely.
SSS causes a noticeable delay, but not usually several minutes. SSS plus HD morphs on the other hand will push it to several minutes on my system, so if you can try turning any HD morphs off.
Good point. I'm already forgetting what it was like rendering with 3Delight - all the inns and outs. Love the engine, but I love instant feedback more :D
Minutes!!! My average render time before suddenly thinking "Oh poop, that light needs adjusting" or similar is anything from 15 min to 6hrs. I let one render overnight last night, first thing this morning was "Oooo that looks good but if I. .." you know the rest ;)
Than the Figures themselves. Well you have all this great face morphs but hey the character allways looks unreal and lifeless without personallity. He yes I know it is a digital figure but I wonder why it was much easier to get a V4 look much better and more real with less morphs than a G3F for example with a much more morphs all this realiting to the face. The body is another part and yes it is true that the new figures have much more and also better and realistic morphs than V4, no doubt about it. But the face I don`t know. And if it would be possible to convert my old v4 and m4 skins to g3f and in the future g3m than all would be fine I think, because than I can use the new figures with "old" textures. And if you visit my gallery, you can see that the skin I have used on the Dixie character is not bad at all.
I have found that DAZ 4.8 is slower in several ways than early versions of studio. It is disappointing when figures take a while to load or render, which is why I don't intentionally purchase HD characters although now they are coming in pro bundles I sometimes buy them without really wanting them.
Sorry you are having that issue. It can be frustrating.
I'm not saying you can't be critical. I'm saying that you are coming off as nothing BUT critical.
You can convert the skins yourself with a free program. No money necessary. Even an idiot can do it, and I know that because I did it. I'm even going to do a walkthrough video.
If you don't like G3, don't use her. Use V4. There's nothing keeping you from using old content. No one is forcing you to spend money. If you don't like a product you have purchased, you should return it within the return window and get your money back.
As written it is not the rendertime in general, it is just the spotrender what costs nerves. If you just want to see if the figures feet for example collides with the ground of something (because of displacement maps)...written about this issue above you also have to wait 3-5 minutes until you can see if that is the case and than you can adjust and than you do a spotrender and yopu have to wait 3-5 minutes again especially if you do a closeup. The rendertime for the images I make are not much longer in general as before but the spotrender stuff costs nerves.
it's a mistake for any 3D artist to think the render part of a project is something you press a button and the computer figures it all out. Any render requires you to optimize your textures, your lights, your project. Shaders that add realism will add time to a render, even on the most robust system and old favorites like adding a displacement to a ray traced shadow is time better spent re-watching the directors cut of Return of the King. If you are not optimizing for your scene don't expect the computer optimize for you. If you are adding realism to your scene don't expect the computer for figure out any shortcuts that weren't there to begin with. Rendering takes your computer to it's extreme end, either CPU+RAM is floored or your GPU is getting hammered for extended periods of time. If you think of the calculations you would need to do on paper to produce a render those few minutes, hours or days would be like giving the pioneers FTL drives for ther oxen drawn covered wagons.
If you are trying to do spot renders quickly to place things, then why not use default plastic shaders on everything until stuff is posed and placed, and once that's done pop in the proper textures?
That is clear, no doubt about that. That is why have written, that it would be a great innovation when it would be possible to do a spotrender just to see if the figure collides with something. Maybe a smooth shaded option for selected items and these selected items get also rendered smooth shaded and the rest as it is. Understandable? So you can select for example G3F turn her on smooth shaded while the rest of the scene is texture shaded and this you spotrender at G3F gets rendered as smooth shaded version while the rest gets renderd texture shaded.
I do also not use HD characters.
Well if you render in 3Delight DS4.8 is faster than the older versions, if you use old skin textures for example like I have used on the Dixie character (it is an elite skin) So Dixie renders faster in DS4.8 than in DS 4.6 for example, that is why I do not understand why new Figures without HD needs longer even the result is not really better.
possible but a "smooth shader option for selcted" and a "spotender option" that renders selected and turned to "smooth shader" with the smooth shader and the rest as it is with textures, that would be cool.
...and for Hanabi...
the body morphs for G3F and also the bendings are way better no question, the face morphs I think are not better. And as written, the skin textures and shaders...well...
The "smooth shader for selected render option" would be really cool, Three clicks ready. click "Select Figure" -> click "smooth shader for selected" -> click "spotrender" and the rest gets rendered with the normal textures and after that a fourth click "reset smooth shader for selected" I am not a programmer but I would say that could be possible to realize.
Genesis 3 Female loads with an HD morph on, if you want to avoid it you have to switch it off yourself (look in Currently Used in the Parameters pane).
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So, off, have some more things on the to download list for G2F and G3F and G2M so I am leaving...have do download :)
If you load up Genesis 2 and apply your old Dixie texture set and shader the render time should not be significantly longer than it was with V4, spot render or otherwise. If you turn on progressive render in the render settings you should get very fast feedback for a spot render. How many subdivision levels do you have applied? Using just 1 would be enough to for a collision check. In a lot of cases just switching to a wire frame and switching to an orthographic view will tell you if something is touching something else (eg. feet touching ground), actually in most cases that will give you better feedback than a spot render.
that is true...the rendertime is even a bit shorter than with DS4.6 :) that is what I have written above. DS4.8 is faster on the same elite skin texture with the same values and with the same rendersettings and the same light than DS4.6 no matter if you use v4 or g2f with the v4 texture. That is one reason I need a converter to convert the v4 skin texture to g3f and because I want to create a new G3F Dixie version and for that I need the old skin texture.
What I meant are the new textures for the new figures by not far better results.
Well "feet touching" ground is normaly no problem except ground uses displacement map with high values and that you only can see in a spotrender I think.
and converters for clothes work well until it comes to skirts. Shirts, pants, shoes everthing is no problem but skirts work not well.
Ok, cool. So now I'm wondering what the problem is. I like SSS, so I use it. And a whole lot of others like it too, so the vendors include such shaders with their texutre and morph products, but you don't have to use it.
The problems with converters is not insignificant, but you can't really ask for high quality autoconverters for legacy content forever. This is why I tend to use a mix of generations when I really want or need to use certain products. I don't want the headach of re rigging everything and I'm sure as hell not going to rely on autofit for things like dresses, boots and things with lits of flowing fabric.
It is not the textures it is the shader that makes a difference with realism and speed. Most material presets for new figures will apply either the AoA SSS shader for 3Delight or the Iray Uber for Iray. AoA SSS does a pre-render subsurface calculation before it even starts to render so test renders for placement or alignment should not be done with objects have that shader.