DAZ, Where's My Metadata?! (Answered Though not Solved)
tsroemi
Posts: 2,744
Soooooo, I do have at least a modicum of understanding for the metadata of the migrated Rendo vendors not being complete, so that most of the items end up in Lost&Found. At least I see them there, am aware that I have bought them, and can eventually correct the metadata. But now I've just bought a bunch of Lully dresses, and NONE of them have ANY metadata at all. They don't show up in Smart Content in any way, shape or form. Now, that is really really not okay. I rely on smart content for genesis clothes. If I'd known that, I could have set up the installers better on my own, via Content Package. There's got to be SOME effort put into this from DAZ's side at least. How can you sell us products that are not set up to your own rules and standards at all?!
Please fix this asap. This is literally YOUR job, DAZ. The PAs do almost everything else. So please, get to it.
Thanks.
(Yes, am also putting in a ticket. But maybe others want to chime in as well, or can be made aware of the dimensions of the problem if they are not yet.)
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Comments
You can have my Metadata since I have no use for it, LOL
wasn't there a program released not too long ago that allowed installs of these types of products and also set up the metadata? I agree though that this is something we, as customers, should not have to do.
@FSMCDesigns, yeah, would love that, if only they'd fit to my products! ;-)
@daveso, yes there is the extra Studio Installer and I even have that, but I stopped using it because I found it even more confusing than creating the md by hand. If DAZ doesn't fix the situation, I might have to give it another go though. Thanks for reminding me of it!
@tsroemi, when DAZ acquired the RuntimeDNA inventory after it closed, none of those products came with metadata either. That is what drove me to learning how to load metadata. And like you it is frustrating now. Because the products today are much more complex that the ones created around Generation 4 period on back. It has been taking me up to two hours on some of the products alone to set them up.
I am also in the process of installing my HiveWire and Rendo purchases into a new computer with Content Wizard, but still have to fix a lot of misunderstandings due to weird naming of items. But when I buy something from a non-Daz source, I accept this.
I have Content Package, but could never get it to work for me. So I have pretty much stopped buying the 'new' products from the 'Welcome' artists for now.
And of course, there is also correcting the metadata on new DAZ products, like leggings/footwear assigned to Accessories that should be in Wardrobe for the dForce Pellae Outfit for G9.
Speaking of adding metadata, does someone have a link to a good tutorial (ideally a free one) on how to do add them ?
From what I understand all the new vendors coming over from Rendo are bringing their products over "as-is". So if there is no Metadata in the product when it was at Rendo there will not be any here either. This also goes for Metadata that does not match what is done here at Daz3D, promos as well unless the Vendor's have taken the time to create new ones for all their products to match the Daz Standard sizing/proportions etc. Another thing to keep in mind is that this is a massive amount of products coming in at once as memcneil70 mentioned above like when RuntimeDNA was added to the store. These products are not just submitted one or a few at a time like the veteran PA's here at Daz do.
I do agree that it would be nice to have a flag on products PRIOR to installing about if they have Metadata or not. There is a column for that on the Installed Pane in DIM but not on the Ready to Download one
I also bought the lully shop and was very surprised there was no metadata surely this wuld be exected to be added to the products by daz and as part of the testing before lauching a product...
Can't they be installed using DIM?
I'm lost to. And this is the reasonI never buy from rendo or any otjer third party.
They can be installed, but they won't show up properly in Smart Content. They might be in Lost & Found, or not appear in Smart Content at all.
Content Wizard can be a great solution provided the item has the necessary files to begin with. Sometimes the content being installed lacks the proper stuff needed for Content Wizard to provide an easy solution, and then you're either living with a defective installation or burning through your limited available time customizing an installation instead of working on the sort of renders you really want to make.
Anyway, at this point, unless it's a plugin or tutorial, any new release (including stuff previously released at Renderosity), ought to be properly functional in Smart Content. Failing to update old files available from Renderosity and just migrating stuff to Daz's servers is lazy. It looks like they just made product descriptions by copying the descriptions from the Renderosity descriptions, and used some or all of the pre-existing promo renders, of varying quality. The product pages fail to mention whether the product is Smart Content compatible, which should be mentioned.
Either a ridiculous oversight or an unwillingness to commit the time needed to release new product to current Daz standards.
I see posts like this often and this is why I will never use or rely on anything called "smart" content. I use the content library to find my products. I know the file structures, where they are located and can install anything outside of the DAZ ecosystem.
I load a lot of things via the Content Library too, it's certainly a good option; but I have clothes, hair and characters in smart content because I neither feel like hunting through all the various 'figure' folders nor do I want to create a completely new system. So this is really very annoying. Even more so because I just found that some of the new vendor items do come with metadata!
).
I think it would help a lot if everyone who uses metadata sent in a ticket as well.Otherwise, I fear things might just go like @memcneil70 said they went with RDNA, and we'll never get the new stuff properly sorted (maybe THAT'S what we need - a sorting hat ...
I hadn't thought about this. In the coming weeks (not this one as I'm swamped and going out of town this weekend) I will do smart content for my migrated stuff and put it on my website for free download. I can't promise to do ALL of it and some already has it as I did it for a few of them at Rendo, but I will work on that.
Although Smart Content relies on metadata, metadata is not used solely for the Smart Content pane
That's such a sweet thing to offer, thanks for chiming in here with this idea! But really, it's DAZ's job, they do the metadata (or are supposed to do it) for all their PAs here. Why shouldn't they do it for you as well?
Maybe if the new PAs that came from Rendo just told DAZ that they're uncomfortable with the metadata situation and people here complaining and stopping to buy, and then asked them to fix it asap - maybe this could work? Personally, I don't mind if it takes some time, I'd just like some sort of assurance that it will get done eventually.
With about of 3000 new products, and counting, in the last three weeks, imagine the time it would take to produce the metadata and test them all. If it takes an additional 1/4 hour each, end-to-end, that's 750 hours of work. Three people working full-time on that alone would take more than 6 weeks.
I've struggled with this area and others related to DAZ Studio. The concept, the theory, is great. Why not make it easier for someone to install their content, and work with it.
But, from my recollection, none of the features, such as metadata and Smart Content work properly. If someone wants to rely on those tools, they all too often must expend tremendous effort problem solving or developing their own attempts at solutions.
I use DAZ Studio because it offers me an easier way to Make Art. I already have to contend with my own inner doubts, and agony in the effort to bring my ideas to life. I get totally confused an overwhelmed with the kind of efforts it takes to try and make Smart Content and similar tools work. Those tools should help Making Art easier. They should not burden the creative process.
If anyone hasn't picked up the MF Content Bookmarks from ManFriday it is super easy to use and let's you go right to whatever folder(s) you are forever using! I started using it shortly after it came out and now I can't go into studio without it as metadata and I are in a perpetual hate/hate relationship
I made a quick picture reference tutorial for anyone who has MF's Bookmarks and wants to turn them into a Toolbar for easier access!
Generally they do, but they will be broken by things like moving files around.
Not using the default locations requiers the effort of moving the files around, lmits the tools available for finding content, disables or limits some featuers, and makes updates more complicated. If those drawbacks are acceptable to you in order to organise your way (and if links or categories are not an acceptable, non-destructive, means to obtain the same ends) then by all means don't use the CMS - but please don't try to persuade others to follow your example if they are not already doing so as it will almost certainly make their lives harder.
They're not ready for the Daz store, period. The item descriptions are often not in the format of the store which lists in detail items, morphs, etc., they often lack the required items link (which is standard for Daz) or even which generation the items are for. Those two pieces of information are often a part of the 3-line description that looks like it's been copy-pasted from the other store in rush.
It's not a good look for either Daz (dropping standards) or the PA's (if they care so little about the presentation of their product, how can I put trust into their actual work?).
Redoing dozens, in some cases hundreds, of pages and several teems that promo images at oen go would be an impossible task, so they are getting a one-time relaxation of standards. I don't know if there is a plan to at least add metadata over time.
The best metadata tutorial I found that managed to get through to my brain was by SloshWerks, https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=FQQ9uLhMSKQ. It is older and if you search on the web for 'how to install metadata in DAZ3d' you can come up with a variety of other offerings, some newer that I haven't looked at. They might be more relevant for you now.
Thank you, I'll watch it and see how it goes from here
I am not the only one talking about how the system does not work. I do NOT re-organize my content. I rely totally on DIM to install items where they belong.
And now we hear how perhaps hundreds of purchased items lack the proper information to work with Smart Content, etc.
Sorry, but if this was planned better or staggered, there wouldn't be a need for lowering the standards. "We're in a rush, so our customers will suffer" is not a good look either. This "welcome" promo will end eventually, but the messy pages without proper listings and missing information will stay, resulting in extra returns ("I didn't know there were required items" etc.) in the future and extra work for support that, if I understand, is already getting a lot of tickets.
At least with ex-RuntimeDNA content, it's easily spotted from the product page, and you know to expect that those items will not have proper Smart Content functionality. Not updating those items for Smart Content made sense--almost all of it intended primarily for Poser, content from that era generally doesn't have Smart Content functionality, etc. Reasonable decision.
Now, we find hundreds of items, mostly content intended for Daz Studio use, developed after Smart Content has been around for a few years, brought over from another brokerage, but not updated to current Daz content standards, with no notice of the non-standard nature provided to the end user/customer. It wasn't impossible to update these products. Of course, it would be time-consuming and expensive, perhaps impractically so, to update them, but all business ventures have costs.
And then we have the issue of Daz prioritizing the PA over the end user/customer. It makes short-term sense because Daz's share for a productive PA's work will be greater than the dollars made from even the most profligate of customers. But that prioritization has long-term consequences.
Any product can be given Smart Content functionality by adding the proper metadata. It has nothing to do with how old it is or where it comes from. Getting it done, however, is a time-consuming process, if it is to be done properly.
DAZ has now responded to my ticket on the matter - very promptly, I much appreciate that - and they've apologized and basically confirmed that there are too many new products for the employees they have to create metadata for, at least for the time being. The staff member who wrote to me said he would pass my request on but wasn't sure if anything was gonna come of it. He was really very nice and polite about it.
The situation itself, of course, is not so great, but at least now it's fairly clear. I will write back and suggest putting a tag or something on the products without MD, but I don't think they will follow this. As for myself, I really love Lully's clothes and the other things I bought, and I also don't want to see the PAs get hurt over this, so I'll keep what I've got and create new installers with Content Package like I did with 'normal' Rendo clothes. It's a bother for sure, but well. Spilled milk and all that I guess.
I want to add something real quick that I just found out that might also be important for others to know: The Rendo vendor files as per DAZ distribution DO make the products show up in smart content, even if only in Lost&Found and without any icon or categorization. That I couldn't see them there at all before seems to have been due to Studio being stuck on the 'filter by context' setting at the time. It just did this again a moment ago, but this time I noticed, and managed to change it, and then I checked for the Rendo products once more, and lo and behold! There they were.
So - they are not being completely ignored by smart content, which is something at least. This way, one can do a real quick general categorization by hand basically. I always just use the 'product' tab and throw all the files together into the wardrobe or hair or whichever it is category, without making extra selections for materials and such. You can get there by rightclicking on the product in Lost&Found and choosing Create or Edit Metadata. Then select all the files of the product and chuck them into a category where you're sure to find the stuff. Hope that helps a bit for those struggling.