Poser >>> DS " Article "
Summoner
Posts: 82
About Me:
Let me Introduce my self before I start this Article " For the ones who do not know me already " . I am a passionate Poser Creator and user since 2002, mainly I try to develop new features for 3D bringing in new Improvements and Ideas for Figure creations. Mostly in the sector " Rigging " . Please excuse as I am not that experienced in using all these 3D technical terms ! 3D is not my proffession I do it to relax and have fun loving the challenge, finding things that others have not found so it is a great Hobby. About 10 years ago I launched my first official Poser site where I offer these poser Figures with exclusive rigging features that until now no other creator is offering at the maket for Poser.
Little History:
I was a Member of Renderosity since 2002 gave my experiences to others for many years until 2019 when Bondware took over Poser. After trying to give some sugestioins and help with my figure creation experience I ended up being Banned from there community Inclusive my Customer accounts! It was the wrong Time trying to give advices and trying to share new rigging technologies as they just had accuired Poser. The Possibliity expired for the Renderosity community ever getting hand on this amazing Rigging technology for 3D articulated Figures so that they remain stuck on there old fashion Capsule Tri system.
Article:
Many years of researches and alternatives lifted the Model creation to a fantastic level in Poser, In 2014 Smith Micro Launced a feature called Game Dev that got updated in 2016, a feature that actually supports simple skinning, actually nothing else then the standart rigging for 3D like Blender and most other 3D creation applications. Poser 13 was announced to be launched with this already existing feature since 2014 renaming it as Unimesh as all new feature. This might be due the fact that Creators never started using the simple skinning methods for there articulated figure creations! This method of rigging opend amazing possibilities and results for figure creations, Bringing Poser to a all new Level. So why should Daz Studio not have the same Possibilitiesthat would open a whole new world and bring back some versality in standallone modles that got very rare the past years. I guess this is due the emense rigging work that comes with it painting all these manually in Ds it self.
The Power of Two:
I Passed now over 5 years finding a solution bringing in this amazing feature into Daz Studio, then why should only Poser have this amazing feature. Daz Studio the follow up of Poser as simplefied version that grew over the past years should not differ allot from Poser ( Personally I call it the Poser Clone ) . I had many draw backs trying to Integrate my Poser system that is meanwhile a huge bridged system into DS, Figures I made were exploding in DS and I never could understand why. The question " Why should DS not also prifit from the great simple skinning technology " lifting up the articulation quality to a all new level, came up again and again. Many of my members asking me to make these for Daz studio over years, the solution was just out of reach! Until yesterday after a e-mail from a member that explained how to rig one of my models into DS. This was the missing Key ! But " Rigging high complex models with over 200 articulations ? " a huge task, this might take weeks or month and it would not be the same quality like it was made for Poser. The solution was there, a simple word, a simple missing click, to bring in these amazing feature into Daz Studio. So there it was after all these years a break through " A New Era ? " who knows!
I found the missing Key that makes it possible having these simple skinned creatures complex rigging, just like you find in Blender and high end Programs in Ds just like they also are supported in Poser. After a brigging setup a task of 10-15 minutes to addapt the full rigging into Daz Studio wit no loss of quality, no matter how complex, no matter how many articulations. All automated From a High end creation Program like Blender etc. to Poser from Poser to Daz Studio.
Why do I call it the Power of Two ? Just because they depend on each other for better end results, for a evolution, to get better and better models and more versality, this concerns mainly the Creators. Actually I should call it the Power of 4 but we do not want to make it to complicated as this is not a Tutorial how to make such Articulated Figures. So Daz Studio can't be without Poser and poser cant be without Daz Studio for a good evolution and a long lasting future.
Concluding:
After finally finding the solution getting with ease these amazing creations into DS that could bring in a all new Era in Standallone figure creation I wish Daz had taken Poser having it all together ending up with the Power of Three. On top you see my first release the Genie in DS with the full articulation Power in the Image on the bottom a screenie of the Velwyn originally for poser and now finally for Daz Studio. Note I am no DS expert just been using it now since 24 h so there is still a little learning curve to achive. I hope this article will not also cause a Ban like I got back in 2019 at Renderosity
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Comments
I'm aware of your work. You always struck me as a creative fellow. There are stand-alone creatures and such for DS in the Daz store. There is sometimes some discussion of rigging and there are tutorials on the topic. For clarification, it seems you wanted to bring your stand-alone figures modelled in Blender from Poser into DS. You are using skinning tools found in Poser to make your figures and exporting them to DS. You've apparently found a way to make complex figures work in DS without spending time painting weight maps? I'd be interested to learn more about your process. While Daz supports export to Blender and other programs, I don't think Poser will end up on the list. I don't get the feelng that many DS folk are that excited about using Poser.
As well as in Poser there is no more need to Paint Weights just minimal corrections, as a sample , you can just use a tool like Auto Rig Pro in Blender from there you go to poser, a bridge lets you work in both directions almost live.
Intention is not at all bringing any users back to Poser, the Intention is offering these posibilities ( Models ) also to DS, the enduser desides him self what application suits him best, every application has there advantages. Some prefere Blender some Daz others Poser. For a creator it is more common not being picky this would cause a restriction and a loss of versality in the market, even I that I am a Poser user do not restrict my self on just one, both together are stronger for endresults, especially for development. DS it self is not capable brigging a Application like Blender life transporting the articulated figures back and forth ( As far as I know ), as a creator you will need to choose the application that will allow this feature and in this case it is Poser until Ds fully supports Imports of rigged figures from external applications like Blender. If a Creator would realize this fact he sure would be exited about it and might decide integrating poser into he's workflow just like I integrate DS into mine :) I was sure exited getting a solution for my problem from a member yesterday, making me exited using both Poser and DS now.
The project is just on a basic stage about 24h old and there are still some little things to clear out and I am a DS user just since these 24h , had to learn setting it up, Blew it up and had to rearange all the tabs. So will sure need some time to get a suitable setup with a smooth workflow.
For the DS staff this could be a hint for the future allowing external Rigged import in a more flexible way, for those who have a little less experience, my way might not be the usual and pretty complex, not at all logical.
I see. It'll be fun to see what you do with it. It'll be interesting to see what develops in DS.
@Summoner
You seem to be under a very common misconception that people still have about the Daz business model.
Daz’s primary product is content for the Genesis models
Daz studio is the FREE loss leader platform that secured an environment for it’s content buyers to create high quality renders
of the products they purchased from the Daz content store
Daz used to exclusively create Poser native content but eventually Daz
(wisely) realized that Poser was the single point of failure in their business model thus after some very concerning instability in poser’s ownership Daz inc decided to create their own “figure posing and rendering” program called “Daz studio”
Your figures look interesting but you must understand that Daz has ZERO business incentive to enable Daz Studio to fully support external figure import that does not foment the sale of Daz store content for the figure.
It makes no economic sense for them to do so.
Nothing will stop you from offering variations ,morphs , clothings etc yourself of course.
Blender is a much better FREE option for those who want to import figure from various sources as blender has a different business model being open source and primarily supported by a Foundation
along with the Blender marketplace and Donations.
Today in 2024 Daz is self sustaining ,uses it own native formats for figures and has Zero need for the existence of poser…ZERO
Note that Daz has dedicated Bridge plugins for sending Genesis figures out to the major 3DCC’s & game engines but nothing to send genesis figures over to poser.
https://www.daz3d.com/daz-bridges
while ironicaly The Renderosity marketplace is heavily subsidized by the sales of Daz Genesis figure morphs and content if you look at the top selling items over there.
This afternoon I tried my self on a quiet complex Model that I made as Christmas Freebie back in 2019 for Poser. There were some users asking for a DS version at the time, but it was not possible making it. The wings have a high complex articulation system, there is a full easy pose integration and a large amount of movement options. Today I continued expanding my Setup with success, the workflow starts to be fluent, with just a bunch of clicks, resulting to get a quiet amazing result for final DS models. The bending show a amazing smoothness, no breaks, results that could not me achieved by painting Wm manually for sure, especially not in triax.
The workflow for rigging such a high complex model takes about 1 day, that also includes the grouping, we are talking here about 100+ articulations. Making you understand is that i n a few days you have a high complex model all ready to launch, not month's not years, results for bending are more progressive, not comparable to the common rigging like used in Poser/DS for anatomic bendings. And now it is finally Possible getting all these advantages into DS without to many efforts all the way to HD.
Remember I am just a 48h Daz Studio beginner and have not jet figured out a perfect texturing setup, still searching these Glow in the dark effects. Here some screen shots of the Lucent-Drago that I will also make soon Public for DS as Freebie.
I do not have a large ammount of tutorials and no Video, there would not be enough time for all this in this one man show. Also running my Site and all this is just a Hobby that does not generate any Income, it just supports the digital needs :) and the site.
Yes your remodelings or rigged models are fully supported in Poser 12, Poser Pro 2012 already gives it full support, it comes with the simple skinning support called , Simple bones single skin - Interoperable . the better your rigging in blender the better the results in poser. Even the standart autorig in blender can give satisfying results, once in Poser you will need adjusting the Joints manually to your needs, it is rather fine tuning. In some cases there are some slight smoothing needed with the paint brush, if there are bending issues back to blender and correct there the influences. Each creator has he's own setup and system, with time you create bridges- macros for better workflows to save time, choosing the tools that suits you best. The bending result is 1:1 between Blender and Poser or any other 3D high end application for figure creation leaving these triax and capsule setups to the past.
DS 4 has always used a single skin with modifiers, that is how all of the Genesis figues work, and Genssi 3+ use a single weight map for each joint (Genssi 1 and 2 used the TriAz system, with separate maps for each axis). Although FBX import of rigged figures has been limited until now (though it did support FBX files that matched the Motion Builder spec) the latest beta version has seen it greatly improved.
Verry Interesting, I was aware that DS is using single weight looking at the tecnical specs. Note I only run a DS that is totally empty, just loading building folders until now to test if Poser models load, that just use mechanical functions, now there is an additional folder for creation of individual DS assets. So no Genessis installed !
May I ask, Has Genesis 3+ been fully rigged in external applications or manually WM painted in Daz Studio ?
Would be interesting to know as I barely see standalone creatures, humans, animals released by 3rd party. There are a few but it might be a case of 1:1000 the rest is rather based on Genesis Morphs. I tried FBX import but in most cases the model will blow up, secondarly is that it is causing the model to be in compatible mode controlled through only the bones like in 3D apps and not by selecting body Parts. This might all be due my inexperience with DS and I missed something specific to activate the bodypart selection after Import.
Even that these Models are now Imported fully compatible into DS with all specs Incl all morphs, single skinned in Blender. I could not find any way importing these models in FBX into Daz studio that sure would be a great advantage for other options.
I might have to try installing Genessis and make a reversed setup like I use to load my models into DS if they are also single skinned , reversing the process I use would generate a fully working Genessis for poser ( In Theory ) this If Genessis is using the common single skinning.
Don't want to speak for others, but I tend to avoid stand-alone figures. To me, building off of a base figure makes so much more sense since one's library of poses / clothing / hair etc. for the base figure can be used with the new creation.
- Greg
I am pretty much aware of these business models and these are pretty common. Yes blender is giving in this sence allot more flexibility but is not the choice the common Poser/DS uf users that just like playing to relax like in a game. It needs a little more technical knowledge then just load a doll, put some clothes on and pose then hit render :)
Limmiting to much a creator has not a long term future especially not in these day's when technology is evolving at such a speed. Personally I got the choice jumping on any application I wish and I already thought of it allot of times, so thought first give it a shot with DS as yes Poser is having a big fall and there businessplan is a big fail.
Avoiding a missunderstanding is that poser for a Creator can quiet give some advantages for DS just like using Blender, Personally I do not tend byting my self into just one and rather use all I can , keeps me flexible and each has its own little advantage.
your explonation sure hits the Nail and is verry true !
Irony:
"I would also not say to prefere the hammer, so I will not use the screwdriver to place the screw, and hit it in with the hammer"
There have been a few” standalone” humans but they all have been withdrawn from the markets both here and Renderosity
except for non human Mechs & Robots.
Each iteration of Genesis is a figure platform built to a uniform standard that makes it far easier for third party content developers to support it with genesis based products.
This strategy has been very successful for Daz inc compared to the literal Crowd sourcing approach by
the various owners of poser.
Resulting in an eclectic hodge podge of various figures ,over the years, with alot of Nerdy Mcnerd techno babble about exotic rigging schemes and bluster about supposed “Vicky killers” but nothing in the way of standardization that could unite third party vendors.
Resulting in factional figures that were only used by the respective “fans” of the various figures creators
before taking their place in the forgotten ash bin of poser history..
As far as I know the figures were rigged in DS, though I suppose it is possible Motion Builder was used. The improved FBX import iss till only in the beta branch, the General Release has not yet been updated to a build including that. Still, the DS rigging tools are geneally quite well regarded by those with more, and more serious, hands-on experience than me so I don't think that would have been a great hardship.
Genesis 1 and 2 use single-skinning (groupin is just for bone selection) but they use the triAx rigging system, similar to Poser's rigging, rather than the more common single bend modifiers (as found in Genesis 3+, which is why those have separate bend and twist bones).
Yes. Vyusur has all but disappeared. No idea what happened.
ok Woow this is sure allot of workmanship now day's, Painting articulations all by hand " Remembering me the storry of Gepetto making the wooden doll that is getting alive " He crafted it also all by hand. Considering all the advanced technology that is already since decades on the market. So a real piece of Art I would say.
I had a look at the rigging options in DS and yes they are quiet advanced if I compare them with Poser basic ones, not talking about the setup room, but both are not compareable with tools on Figure creation programs like Blender with optional plugins. All this is actually not relevant as DS does not grant a direct Import "Officially". Each is totally Individual and naturally a case of preferences for the end User.
For me I do not use the Poser Riging tools I Plainly use external rigging tools and now the same with DS no matter what type of model it would be . In Poser there is just the need to use these tools for slight fixes and the joint editor, In DS after a little more then 48h there is no more need of any Paint tools it takes "my new format" as if it were part of the Programm with all built in options, I just need to encode it into DS format with the standart DS import tools and the model is ready to go.
Important to know is that my Poser models are totally incompatible with DS, when loading a CR2 into Daz studio they break and Joints are cut, because they are rigged in simple weights and not in the traditional poser triax or unimesh way. The main reason why I searched over 5 years for a solution and the right format.
you made me really curious, so as soon as I get a little time and finished my whole setup I will have to Install these Genessis, allot of renders and options that come with them sure look amazing and advanced, I am not really the one who is playing with these dolls but I love to look at the technical specs, giving me a good opportunity to learn a little more.
Yes the strategy trying to replace a flag ship doll with a new one is totally the wrong way, "Killing Vicky" was sure the wrong descision unless bringing out something top notch ! in every instace a total marketing fail just for a few to get some attention " do not want to start ranting about these as I am quiet pissed off " But reality shows that Vicky still is the flagship for Poser for the few remaining users. La Femme is just a desperate scream of a hand full with big attention disorders. ( Just my personal opinion )
Intentions mentioned are soley to bring standalones into DS that can not be made out of base Morphing humanoid figure, that already have there place as flagships with all the needs, not in good interests replacing a Morph doll with a new one, this would be just a waste of time and efforts.
They break because DS does not attempt to import Poser weight maps. Daz did try to suport Poser's external morph system, with limited success as the format of the load command seemed to chnage with every sevice release; quite possibly that was at least part of the reason for not trying to read Poser weight maps (DS can write them when exporting CR2s, however).
Vyusur is on Renderhub.
Well this is certanly understandable, just what I thought. Poser basically still is using Triax Weight Paint with a mix of capsules, really confusing, the simple skinning was an attempt of Smith Micro giving the artist the posibility to evolve, but they never did. None of the creators ever used the features, they are stuck on the Triax even with La Femme. The key solution for DS would of been using the CR2 import option with Simple skinned CR2 models but a difficult task if none of the creators ever crafted these models. So for Daz there sure is no need to add a support for models formats that are not generally generated especially not if just one makes them :)
However bringing crafted models like complex creatures into DS fully articualted and ready to go from Blender or other 3D apps is only possible through Poser as far as I figured out. There seems not to be any alternative shortcut, unless one is willing to WM paint all the bendings and setup the bone structure manually with the DS tools from a static Import, witch would be the alternative but for a creator not very productive and quiet timeconsuming.
She is at another site. (she? he? - I think it's a she) ;) Great dog and cat figures.
And nothing else - a shadow of what used to be. Other site is rhub, unless there is some other beyond that. DA gallery also pretty cleaned out. As I said, all but disappeared. No more stand alone humans, etc
To be clear there are quite alot of plugins & external applications that communicate quite well with Daz Genesis models inside studio
in the area of animation.
Such as Diffeomorphic and Daz to Maya that can send Character animation back to Daz studio as well as the
Cascadure Character animation software (IIRC).
The FREE poser ragdoll physics script exports dynamic ragdoll animation that are compatible with Daz studio
And then there is the Face mojo & Facemotion for facial mocap.
Pose recorder for video base facial mocap.
Reallusion Iclone for bespoke BVH animation export for Daz Millenium 2 thru Genesis 9.
The Mixamo Retarget Rig for Genesis 9 (over at Renderhub )
uses imported FBX files, downloaded from Mixamo, to give the Daz Genesis 9 user access to the thousands of FREE animations on the Mixamo site inside Daz studio without costly monthy subscription fees like the "HEAT" plugin
So Daz studio is not exactly a closed software to external application Data.
Actually for me it is just the interest Bringing in assets into DS that were built and already fully rigged in other 3rd party applications, due the short time usage of DS I am not at all informed about all other possible options, neither Genessis or other evolutionary features. It was just relevant getting rigged models 1:1 into DS without any additional efforts ( Why do things twice if it can be done once ). In a timeline of 5 Years no one could give any suggestions or help unless having to re-rig the whole model from scratch, in DS manually, using the given internal features. Even the Youtube tutorial gurues had no better solutions, the same issue was actually also with poser that I had to solve back in 15. The surprising part of all this is that there is no "Yahooo" about such a possible feature so I guess that things are a little stuck with Manual weight painting. I do not Intend overrolling any community with new ideas nor whant to pull out creators from there habits. But like you mentioned before "this" could be exactly a way of standardization that could unite third party vendors.
I am a little stuck with an issue in the material setup in DS !? I am trying to assign the maps for the glow effects and tryed for hour's now to find this option with no luck.
this is how the creature looks like when assigned correctly
This is how the glow map looks like in this case
In DS there are no nodes so it is sure a all new type of challenge, I searched all over to find the solution but could not even find a tutorial on you tube the diffuse map is assigned normally and this would just be the glowing overlay. It concerns allot of creatures and models that would encounter the same problem if it cant be assigned
I hope someone can help me in this matter or at least give a hint.
Change the Emission colour to white, and put that glow map as the Emission map. Then adjust the lumens level of the emssion until it gives you the effect you want.
DS does have material nodes - see the Shader Mixer pane.
Ohhh no wonder I had the Default resources not installed , as I said empty folders ! there was no Emission option in the default setup :) now found this Emissive setup. Thank you verry much for the help, it seems to be working At least it is now glowing where it should . thank you very much for the help
Ohh cool thank you, so now also found this Pane Tabs feature... oh boy guess I should of looked a little more into the setup of Ds before doing all this technical stuff ! :)
I passed some time today with this material room setup and it works quiet well. It sure is a learning curve, so thank your for the help! The new Import format is also on its best way communicating with DS.
these the first results that I got with the test figure for glow effects in DS
I am pretty happy with the results and speed, so the rest will come with a little more practice. All this was well worth the time Investments and finnaly this last Programm (DS) on my list can also carry the model range without having to go through a total rebuild. "Cool"
After some further uprading I could fix the issues of Import a little further that was causing a model having exploding parts especially concerning complicated rigged models like the one shown bellow. So now it is also possible Importing high complex riggings into DS, that have doubble layered weights on some parts to create certain effects. Like the case of this creature with the effect of wounded belly.
Before the fix This type model showed exactly the issue pulling the poligons of Chest belly right down to the floor
She's based in Russia, and that's problematic to collaborate with US-based marketplaces in current international context (notably to get your vendor earnings, as for example Paypal doesn't work in Russia currently).