Anime Toons and Filatoon Shader Q&A

MarcCCTx

Could this be rewitten for filatoon https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-and-iray-to-filament

Taoz

Mada said:

Taoz said:

It is filament yes. I know it quite well, experimented a lot with it a few years years ago.  Just trying to figure out this new toon thing.

Here I just used the filatoon base shader, while experimenting.  Attached the final one with outlining.  Note that the character I use (Snowflake for A7) has a very bright skin, so nothing wrong here. 

oh yes - now I can see the outline :) great.
For the hair - that's using the iray shader now since you applied it again, and you'll notice that the edges of the fringe is black since opacity doesn't work in Filament. Doesn't look bad however so if you're happy with the look I would call it good enough. If you do want to use the hair shader itself, instead of applying the hair textures again after adding the toon shader, simply drop the maps into the correct channels (I think the hair shader does keep the maps intact when you apply it - but you have to play with rim lighting a lot in my experience)

Thanks, will try experimenting with that.  And you're right about the Iray shader, just didn't recognize it because the outlining is making it look very different.  :)

I also discovered some artifacts on the suit which are parts which I had hidden using Opacity Cutout.  Apparently it is the outlining that is causing these as they disappear if I remove the shell from the suit.

crosswind

Mada said:

crosswind said:

I've spent some time on studying this issue last night, and found Outline shell doesn't work well on sharp edge... especially on the edge with no extrusion at all (screenshot 1)... So if you look at the inside edge of the belt, you can see the outline but from the front, you can't ...

I found two ways to improve it:

1) Thicken the edge by using Thickener plugin so as to generate a new Outline Shell on the extruded edge (screenshot 1 ~ 2). So it's pretty easy if you own Thickener.
2) Post-work ~~ also easy.

Great solutions :) I also have a third option - you can open the texture map and draw an outline where you need it - resave as a new map and load that instead. Its fake but it fools the eye enough to work.

edit : and if you have Substance Painter its even easier, you can use the pen tool to draw directly on the model and export the new map

 

Yea, a neat idea ! I have SP and I can even quickly do it in Blender with Ucupaint... will try. Thank you very much!

ArtsyDragon

I'm having quite a time of trying to get the anime figures to look like other G9 characters I want to turn into Toons. If I use the anime figure, they look weird when I remove the anime head and body then find the head and body to apply. If I use the regular figure, their eyes are funky. In the screen shot below, the anime is on the left, the character Talan is on the right already with the Toon shader applied.

Any suggestions? I would love to make the Gen9 figure have the right eyes. I just am not sure how to go about it.

rokkr

Dartanbeck said:

rokkr said:

There seems to be some erratic behavior with this shader... I was (and still am) converting an old filament scene I did to an all-FilaToon-shaded scene and I couldn't make my character cast shadows not in a million years... Then, I decided to import it to an all-FilaToon scene I made yesterday from scratch (I did it by saving the character as a subset). When I imported, the shadows were there, but the skin was completely different (for instance, I couldn't activate glossiness in my old scene, but, when I imported the character, the glossiness showed up; also, the colors were totally different). Some things could be due to the lighting of the old scene (e.g., the colors) but some things, like the glossiness, I doubt it. Nothing too dramatic, since I'll redo the work in a new scene, but, if someone has experienced this and knows some workaround, I'd like to know.

I've also noticed some weird behaviors between the old filament and the new FilaToon. For instance, in my old scene, I was using an environment (HDRI) for lighting (draw dome off, with a skydome for the sky), but there was also a distant light to cast shadows. If I turned the environment light off, everything that had the old shader would go dark, but the surface I've already applied the toon shader would be lightened by the distant light...

EDIT: another weird thing... In the old scene, I've used the FilaToon - Constant shader for the eyelashes, as Dartanbeck taught us. When I imported my character to the new scene, the eyelashes were gone! The trick I used to make it show up was to set the Cutout Opacity to 2. I don't think this has anything to do with lighting...

 

Were all those weird behavior caused because the old scene had written in it some configuration that were affecting the FilaToon shading?

Well, when coverting older scenes, many things that are even a little bit different will make a big difference in Filament. The shader is the tool, but not the culprit here. There's something else going on that is so easy to overlook it wasn't caught (yet).

 

Shadows - makes sure you have lights in the scene with Deep Shadows enabled. I'm sure you've checked this, but... well... I don't know. I caught that one myself yesterday. It was a simple scene so it was easier for me to actually find and fix.

Sometimes one light (Distant?) can be a bit too strong which makes the shadows disappear. I caught that one myself yesterday. It was a simple scene so it was easier for me to actually find and fix.

 

Filament setting possibilities have changed Dramatically with this release. So some subtle (or major) differences in how those are set up can make all the difference in the world too.

It's very difficult to pinpoint without having the two scenes to compare on screen. Just comb through with open eyes and a patient mind - you'll discover the issue.

 

One thing that kept getting me is that I was making changes when I wasn't on frame 0, so my lights were all buggered up. It was a silly thing, but it had me scratching my head for an embarrassingly long time! :)

Thanks for answering again. Indeed, many things could be happening. The old Filament Draw Options were there, and though it was updated, some old configurations may be written under the covers that I'm unaware of. And, to be honest, I was having problems with shadows in this scene even before the update. I had this idea to convert everything to FilaToon to try to solve it, so, since it was already kinda broken, I think it's better to import the parts into a new scene and convert it from there. I just wanted to share my experience because other people may have not so nice surprises when converting old filament scenes to FilaToon, so I'm leaving the warning.

 

barbult

I started with Base Anime Feminine and dialed some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

rokkr

MarcCCTx said:

Could this be rewitten for filatoon https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-and-iray-to-filament

It will have to be completely remade because, though technically both are filament, FilaToon is a completely new beast. There wasn't an exclusive old filament shader -- we were basically using Uber Iray ignoring the parts that didn't work (like translucency, metallic flakes, some top coat configuration, for instance) and adjusting it accordingly. FilaToon has its own shader with its specificities. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't even know if a proper conversion tool can be made because there are some configurations you can't even extract from the Uber Iray shader (for instance, ambient, shadow, rim; even the glossy layer works differently).

crosswind

barbult said:

I started with Base Anime Feminine and disled some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

Pretty !  You turned on Bloom ?

Mada

ArtsyDragon said:

I'm having quite a time of trying to get the anime figures to look like other G9 characters I want to turn into Toons. If I use the anime figure, they look weird when I remove the anime head and body then find the head and body to apply. If I use the regular figure, their eyes are funky. In the screen shot below, the anime is on the left, the character Talan is on the right already with the Toon shader applied.

Any suggestions? I would love to make the Gen9 figure have the right eyes. I just am not sure how to go about it.

It looks like you're zeroing the body and head, I should have been clearer on zeroing the character morph - there's proportion dials connected to the main dial so you need to actually zero the main dial. See image - on the shaping tab search for Anime, then select Currently Used and then find the main morph - for the female that is Base Anime Feminine and for the male its Base Anime Masculine. That will then zero all proportion dials as well.

barbult

crosswind said:

barbult said:

I started with Base Anime Feminine and dialed some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

Pretty !  You turned on Bloom ?

No, I didn't. This is just the way the Filatoon shader made it. The bulb has emission on.

crosswind

ArtsyDragon said:

I'm having quite a time of trying to get the anime figures to look like other G9 characters I want to turn into Toons. If I use the anime figure, they look weird when I remove the anime head and body then find the head and body to apply. If I use the regular figure, their eyes are funky. In the screen shot below, the anime is on the left, the character Talan is on the right already with the Toon shader applied.

Any suggestions? I would love to make the Gen9 figure have the right eyes. I just am not sure how to go about it.

You can find toony eyes in G9 starter essential and quite a few material presets. Just load them to your G9 characters and delete original eye nodes.

However, as you said, if you work on a toon figure and want to replace its head / body morph with other G9 figures, just Zero the figure (with Zero option!), then dial the morph properties of other G9 figure(s), that'll also do !

Mada

barbult said:

I started with Base Anime Feminine and dialed some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

Awesome - I wondered when you would start playing :D

3Diva

@barbult I love that shape mix! Cool idea to mix Bette in!

crosswind

barbult said:

crosswind said:

barbult said:

I started with Base Anime Feminine and dialed some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

Pretty !  You turned on Bloom ?

No, I didn't. This is just the way the Filatoon shader made it. The bulb has emission on.

Odd ~ I don't have this effect without turning on Bloom in fila draw options... but when I wanted to show you by tweaking Bloom property, DS crashed due to filament api...

Wonderland

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

crosswind

@barbult

An example... flame on the candle has emission with Filatoon shader, but without Bloom, no light. Why ?

crosswind

Wonderland said:

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

Firstly select multiple figures / props in Scene pane, then select all surfaces in Surfaces pane, then apply filatoon shader. It'll work.

Wonderland

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

Firstly select multiple figures / props in Scene pane, then select all surfaces in Surfaces pane, then apply filatoon shader. It'll work.

That's what I did and always normally do, but it didn't work with the toon shaders. I'm wondering if it's because I saved the shaders under scripts and was using it from there rather than from the icon in smart content or the conten library?

crosswind

Wonderland said:

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

Firstly select multiple figures / props in Scene pane, then select all surfaces in Surfaces pane, then apply filatoon shader. It'll work.

That's what I did and always normally do, but it didn't work with the toon shaders. I'm wondering if it's because I saved the shaders under scripts and was using it from there rather than from the icon in smart content or the conten library?

I don't think so... the behavior of applying a shader should be always same no matter wherever you place the user-facing file. 

I just tried the way you said, it worked. Pls try again ?

barbult

crosswind said:

barbult said:

crosswind said:

barbult said:

I started with Base Anime Feminine and dialed some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

Pretty !  You turned on Bloom ?

No, I didn't. This is just the way the Filatoon shader made it. The bulb has emission on.

Odd ~ I don't have this effect without turning on Bloom in fila draw options... but when I wanted to show you by tweaking Bloom property, DS crashed due to filament api...

Oh, since you told me where to look for bloom, I took a screenshot of my Filament Draw Options. It does have some bloom settings. I didn't explicitly set those settings. What I did do is start with the Basic FilaToon Environment. Maybe that set the Bloom.

crosswind

barbult said:

crosswind said:

barbult said:

crosswind said:

barbult said:

I started with Base Anime Feminine and dialed some Bette converted to G9. The environment is Colorful Toon Street. The hair is Nyoko Hair.from Aiko 3

Pretty !  You turned on Bloom ?

No, I didn't. This is just the way the Filatoon shader made it. The bulb has emission on.

Odd ~ I don't have this effect without turning on Bloom in fila draw options... but when I wanted to show you by tweaking Bloom property, DS crashed due to filament api...

Oh, since you told me where to look for bloom, I took a screenshot of my Filament Draw Options. It does have some bloom settings. I didn't explicitly set those settings. What I did do is start with the Basic FilaToon Environment. Maybe that set the Bloom.

Yep,  you're right ! I got it ! 

Wonderland

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

Firstly select multiple figures / props in Scene pane, then select all surfaces in Surfaces pane, then apply filatoon shader. It'll work.

That's what I did and always normally do, but it didn't work with the toon shaders. I'm wondering if it's because I saved the shaders under scripts and was using it from there rather than from the icon in smart content or the conten library?

I don't think so... the behavior of applying a shader should be always same no matter wherever you place the user-facing file. 

I just tried the way you said, it worked. Pls try again ?

Oh I tried and tried. It would only shade one of the items although they were all selected. This has never happened before with other shaders. Even just selecting a bikini bottom and top, only one would take the shader, I had to do the other separately. Then I tried a scene with multiple objects and it was a nightmare having to select one object at a time. I'll try next time using the shader from the content library instead of scripts to see if that helps. 

crosswind

Wonderland said:

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

Firstly select multiple figures / props in Scene pane, then select all surfaces in Surfaces pane, then apply filatoon shader. It'll work.

That's what I did and always normally do, but it didn't work with the toon shaders. I'm wondering if it's because I saved the shaders under scripts and was using it from there rather than from the icon in smart content or the conten library?

I don't think so... the behavior of applying a shader should be always same no matter wherever you place the user-facing file. 

I just tried the way you said, it worked. Pls try again ?

Oh I tried and tried. It would only shade one of the items although they were all selected. This has never happened before with other shaders. Even just selecting a bikini bottom and top, only one would take the shader, I had to do the other separately. Then I tried a scene with multiple objects and it was a nightmare having to select one object at a time. I'll try next time using the shader from the content library instead of scripts to see if that helps. 

Here's a short video, pls dbl-check it. Hold Ctrl or Shift key when multi-select items in Scene pane. https://mega.nz/file/GLhXHISb#PYIJ1C36Yt_6zljpqC9xLK_EgD9ULIvZjC_zmxpicgw

Gordig

Is there any possibility of adding hatching and/or halftone to the shader?

Wonderland

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

crosswind said:

Wonderland said:

When I try to use the FilaToon shader on multiple parts of a scene or figure at once, it doesn't seem to work. Usually I can just highlight everything in the surface tab and apply a shader to everything but with FilaToon, I have to select one object at a time which is very time consuming. Not sure why this is happening..? 

Firstly select multiple figures / props in Scene pane, then select all surfaces in Surfaces pane, then apply filatoon shader. It'll work.

That's what I did and always normally do, but it didn't work with the toon shaders. I'm wondering if it's because I saved the shaders under scripts and was using it from there rather than from the icon in smart content or the conten library?

I don't think so... the behavior of applying a shader should be always same no matter wherever you place the user-facing file. 

I just tried the way you said, it worked. Pls try again ?

Oh I tried and tried. It would only shade one of the items although they were all selected. This has never happened before with other shaders. Even just selecting a bikini bottom and top, only one would take the shader, I had to do the other separately. Then I tried a scene with multiple objects and it was a nightmare having to select one object at a time. I'll try next time using the shader from the content library instead of scripts to see if that helps. 

Here's a short video, pls dbl-check it. Hold Ctrl or Shift key when multi-select items in Scene pane. https://mega.nz/file/GLhXHISb#PYIJ1C36Yt_6zljpqC9xLK_EgD9ULIvZjC_zmxpicgw

I know how to select. I do it all the time, These are the only shaders that don't work for me with multiple selections but it might be because I saved the shaders under scripts for easy access. I'll try later clicking directly from the library. 

Daneel

I love this upgrade so much. :D

Grim-Red

For people wondering about the shader working on Genesis 8:

It does, but requires a bit of tweakings.

Realistic skins that have wrinkles, blemish, discolourings etc etc look not very flattering, the Toon skins for Iray ( that are relatively flat and apply to all G8 figures) provided the best result to be converted.

The Filatoon G9 anatomy geometries for eyebrows and eyelashes fit with the autofit, BUT they will lose their rigging and material application with this method, so be careful.

G8 Toon brows and eyelashes might also work, but remember the transparancy might get wonky as well.

Applying the outline also works, in the scene panel, select the outline to change it's color to soften the effect on the skin.

 

Yuzuru 8 converted to Filatoon.

 

 

 

Gordig

Dartanbeck said:

• Why does the hair disappear if I only apply the base shader to that?

Because dForce Strand-Based Hair doesn't work with the shader

Yes, it does. You need to have line tesselation set to 3 for both viewport and render, and then you can make it look like this: 

edit: or this

ArtsyDragon

Mada said:

ArtsyDragon said:

I'm having quite a time of trying to get the anime figures to look like other G9 characters I want to turn into Toons. If I use the anime figure, they look weird when I remove the anime head and body then find the head and body to apply. If I use the regular figure, their eyes are funky. In the screen shot below, the anime is on the left, the character Talan is on the right already with the Toon shader applied.

Any suggestions? I would love to make the Gen9 figure have the right eyes. I just am not sure how to go about it.

It looks like you're zeroing the body and head, I should have been clearer on zeroing the character morph - there's proportion dials connected to the main dial so you need to actually zero the main dial. See image - on the shaping tab search for Anime, then select Currently Used and then find the main morph - for the female that is Base Anime Feminine and for the male its Base Anime Masculine. That will then zero all proportion dials as well.

Thank you, it took me a while to find the right ones. I have the body set now just like I wanted it to be. I had to monkey around with the various head morphs before I got but baby I got it! YAY!!!

First one is without the Toon shader, the second is with it. 

Artini

Finally I can render so fast multi-figure scenes, this time with elevator from:

https://www.daz3d.com/modular-transit-terminus