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Commerical Products forum gone?

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited February 2013

    DAZ_BHowell said:
    Epithumia said:
    Since DAZ3D no longer allows promotions to other sites, despite the MASSIVE amount of free advertising those sites give DAZ3D, I am no longer promoting DAZ.

    I've just deleted every sharecg freebie I offered that enhanced a DAZ product. Many of them were 4-5 star rated items.

    Our data shows that this was a VERY one sided exchange and that DAZ was sending huge amounts of traffic to competing (and other) sites while getting few referrals in return.

    We have not made any changes to our freebie section or links to sharecg.

    Of course DAZ wants to facilitate the community aspects of this forum. DAZ spends a significant amount of money hosting and moderating this forum. It is by its very existence a community building tool. But DAZ wants this to be a DAZ community tool.

    It is not logical or fair that DAZ should take revenue earned by brokering DAZ PA products and use it to promote competing sites or 3rd party products.
    That is it, what do you choose, what is best for the company and PAs that are trying to earn a living or what is best and easier for us the customer....not an easy choice if I had to make it but if the company can't stand the losses in the this economic climate then I see there is no choice at all.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    dustrider said:
    What does this mean for third party products that actually require DAZ products like Reality, the Octane Render pligin for DA that is being developed, and all the plugins for Carrara? Those products typically fill a void that the base product from DAZ does not address, and actually increase sales of DAZ products. For example, many of the plugin,s or extensions, for Carrara provide extended functionality that Carrara does not have. If this functionality is very important to a prospective new users workflow, how will they know it is available?? They won't, so this means they will purchase the product that seems to better meets their needs, and lost revenue for DAZ.

    I understand the logic behind their decision, and can support it in a general sense. Unfortunately, they tend to run their plugin developers off due to their total lack of understanding how the rest of the software development world works, and the loss of control/ability to serve their customers the developers feel when selling here . I'm afraid this is yet another case of DAZ putting a bullet in the chamber, cocking the hammer, aiming squarely at the foot, and pulling the trigger. They have shot themselves in the foot sooooo many times over the past couple of years, one has to wonder if they have any feet left?

    Totally agree with you Dustrider and yea, I agree with Heather about getting back to what worked years back. This new direction is looking a bit bleak to me. The forums are already slow enough. The days where they were so busy a new thread would be on page 3 in an hour shows a happy community sharing ideas, information and renders as well as products they have found here and there and everywhere. This place currently is slow, some days dead and now even more restrictions. I think they have hooves at this point. The feet are gone, shot off a year ago when the big change happened. It's too bad. The products they do offer are really good but putting off great merchants like Mec4D, Reality creator and Garibaldi-Express creator is just bad bad business sense.

    It's like myself being an owner of a salon, I go in one day and say No more hair care products sold here that I didn't make. Then you end up with clients that come in that are used to being able to purchase from us because of the location and well they might just take a chance on one of the hairdressers in the salon at some point. They look over my products, don't know them and leave. Opportunity and sales walk out the door and they spread the word about the new direction the salon has taken, more sales out the door. Clients that were in the chairs are now buying their hair care products from another place and eventually they go to that salon for their cuts and color, we loose out more and more. Business is business but if it's poorly thought out it will put you under eventually.

    We shall see how all this plays out.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,086
    edited February 2013

    I do not see what the big deal is here. If I go to RuntimeDNA, only products for their site can be advertised. We should just be grateful that Daz let this go on for as long as it did. Infact it was the only store to do so..I lost a lot of my WIP threads based on my products which were the building blocks for me becoming a vendor and half of them were not sold in the Daz store. But I understand why this was done. You won't find a Nike store allowing a selection of Addidas products now would you? So from a business point of few I understand. Yes a lot of valuable tips and renders were lost, lets just hope they can be recovered in some form. Yes the sudden closure of these threads is annoying, and will be missed, but I am sure an alternative solution will happen.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    I do not see what the big deal is here. If I go to RuntimeDNA, only products for their site can be advertised. We should just be grateful that daz let this go on for as long as it did. I lost a lot of my WIP threads based on my products which were the building blocks for me becoming a vendor. But I understand why this was done. You won't find a Nike store allowing a selection of Addidas products now would you? So from a business point of few I understand. Yes a lot of valuable tips and renders were lost, lets just hope they can be recovered in some form.

    You could at least update your footer to say your glute and breasts morphs are up. Slacker

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,086
    edited February 2013

    LOL I thought it only went live tomorrow..And I have no commercial thread to notify in LOL

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    LOL I thought it only went live tomorrow..

    Erm I've been looking at that youtube preview frame all morning. Scared to click play here at work though. That's some provocative clay.

  • pcicconepciccone Posts: 661
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    I do not see what the big deal is here. If I go to RuntimeDNA, only products for their site can be advertised.

    They do have a "Industry news" forum where people can post update news of any product with links outside Renderosity.
  • pcicconepciccone Posts: 661
    edited December 1969

    dustrider said:
    Purchasing those products actually made my reliance on DAZ products greater (i.e. I had a greater financial investment in the product, or had a different software product that worked well with DAZ products, therefor re-enforcing my reliance on, or use of DAZ products).

    Of course. That is called "building an ecosystem." Adobe, for example, has benefited tremendously from the ecosystems created around Photoshop and After Effects. With hundreds of plugins available for both programs people have so much invested in those softwares that moving them away with alternatives is very hard, because the alternative system needs to have the same plugins. That means that Adobe benefits, for example, from continued upgrades to Photoshop and After Effects.

    The plugins actually cement the stability of the product.

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,505
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_BHowell said:
    Epithumia said:
    Since DAZ3D no longer allows promotions to other sites, despite the MASSIVE amount of free advertising those sites give DAZ3D, I am no longer promoting DAZ.

    I've just deleted every sharecg freebie I offered that enhanced a DAZ product. Many of them were 4-5 star rated items.

    Our data shows that this was a VERY one sided exchange and that DAZ was sending huge amounts of traffic to competing (and other) sites while getting few referrals in return.

    We have not made any changes to our freebie section or links to sharecg.

    Of course DAZ wants to facilitate the community aspects of this forum. DAZ spends a significant amount of money hosting and moderating this forum. It is by its very existence a community building tool. But DAZ wants this to be a DAZ community tool.

    It is not logical or fair that DAZ should take revenue earned by brokering DAZ PA products and use it to promote competing sites or 3rd party products.

    I beg your pardon, your freebie archive, where is it? And a whole freaking ton of your free older figures are not free anymore. And your weekly freebies are now only "buy something to get something" which means you pay..... sorry that doesn't count anymore in my book. your freebie selection in the store is smaller than any of the major competitors.

    The huge amounts of traffic going to other stores is PROBABLY because of the DECREASED quality we're getting as members AND nonmembers here at Daz!! We're going there because here is getting worse by the minute! We're going THERE because HERE the value of membership has gone down and nothing Daz has done has fixed it or made it better.

    It's logical that Daz does it what it can to retain its customer base. You can paint it however you want, but you lost me as a customer with these changes. I tip well when I get good service, and I leave where the service is the pits. I know when to pack up and leave... and I should have done it a good while ago. I held out this long because I kept believing that Daz would maintain its quality and welcoming standards from the beginning, and it sadly has fallen far below that.

    The community is the major draw to come to Daz and shop. Cutting out these things and making them a hostile environment means less people will browse, and less people will shop.

    When your forum was down because of the change over, i did not come shop until it was up. And only about once a week and just to peek.

    Everything Daz has done in the past year or two has just diminished the Daz experience, cheapened the shopping experience, and belittled vendors and customers alike.

    I do feel betrayed, after spending thousands here, turns out Daz is disappointing us.

  • MizzieMizzie Posts: 5
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_BHowell said:
    Epithumia said:
    Since DAZ3D no longer allows promotions to other sites, despite the MASSIVE amount of free advertising those sites give DAZ3D, I am no longer promoting DAZ.

    I've just deleted every sharecg freebie I offered that enhanced a DAZ product. Many of them were 4-5 star rated items.

    Our data shows that this was a VERY one sided exchange and that DAZ was sending huge amounts of traffic to competing (and other) sites while getting few referrals in return.

    We have not made any changes to our freebie section or links to sharecg.

    Of course DAZ wants to facilitate the community aspects of this forum. DAZ spends a significant amount of money hosting and moderating this forum. It is by its very existence a community building tool. But DAZ wants this to be a DAZ community tool.

    It is not logical or fair that DAZ should take revenue earned by brokering DAZ PA products and use it to promote competing sites or 3rd party products.

    I originally found DAZ by googling a product from another site and finding a forum thread on it here. Thats how you originally got my business. I'm not the only person who found the website that way.

    A lot of the times I'd see what was going on DAZ by looking for info on something else not sold at DAZ. Thats a way you kept making money off of me.

    Know how many times I posted in the public R forums? Once. Know how many times I originally posted here? Over 100. I don't like forums so I never post in them, hence the small post count. Yet I had over 100 posts in the DAZ forum alone. I have posted once in all other store forums. So I'd say you kept me here fairly well with the community feel you had. Had.

    Like I mentioned elsewhere, this is not the same thing as buying a red shirt at K-Mart, instead of Wal-Mart. 3D products are much more unique than that. Style of the vendor creation changes, quality levels change, etc. If people want to buy from your PAs, they will. They have an entire website to promote themselves. The forums were diverse, showing DAZ was about the greater good of the community. It was the last thread that revealed this and its slipping away now too.

    I used to boast about the DAZ forums to new users. The people who needed help learning how to make products because they wanted to one day sell at DAZ, or the people just starting out who are unfamiliar with all the vendors and sites. I would tell people 'DAZ is amazing. Their forums have so many people and you can even promote products not available at DAZ. Go to the DAZ FORUMS.' I didn't say 'Go to Bob's website with his forums because thats the only place to find Bob's products.' I could have, but instead I told people about DAZ.

    Half the time I read about a new product not available at DAZ, I'd go to the main site and do a search to see what you all had that was like it. Because oooooh I liked that new product, but let me stay loyal first. Often times I wouldn't find anything like it, but I would find a cart full of 20 other products that I didnt have yet.

    WIP kept me coming back to the forums. I wanted to see the continuance. See if they ever made it into DAZ to sell and in the process I'd check out the new things at DAZ.

    I hope DAZ is going to stick by this policy for the PA's as well. Some of them don't have products accepted during their submission process. They would sell those in their own stores, other sites, or give them free. I hope they can't promote those any longer either since they aren't sold in the DAZ store.

    I just figured I'd tell you what kind of advertising you were getting with it by telling you my own experience with it. I spent a lot of money here. I stayed loyal for a long time. I even switched from poser back in the day to DAZ exclusively (For awhile). I bought products from this store that went with Reality. I bought products from other stores that required pieces here so I came to get them. All I'm hearing though is DAZ has wasted too much money in the effort to get my business. That is fine by me. These are the only messages I've been receiving from DAZ for awhile. This store used to be the best because it offered so much more than the others. Now its very exclusive in every aspect. That makes its feel elitist and I don't spend time or money in places like that.

    I want to apologize to the PA's. I used to buy a lot of products and I know I haven't in a long time now. This is why. I no longer feel like a customer here. I dislike that I can no longer support you guys. For awhile its because I had financial difficulty during these hard times. At this point though I have plenty of extra spending money coming in but with practices like this continuing even after my long break, I'm still an unhappy `customer`. I'll wait and keep hoping that DAZ becomes more of a community again that helps Artists.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,086
    edited December 1969

    Pret-A-3D said:
    Zev0 said:
    I do not see what the big deal is here. If I go to RuntimeDNA, only products for their site can be advertised.

    They do have a "Industry news" forum where people can post update news of any product with links outside Renderosity.

    Umm look at the total views at industry news compare to what the commercial threads had. My one thread had 4 times the amount of views compared to that:) It's all about exposure and that thread is simply pointless...

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,086
    edited December 1969

    larsmidnatt said:
    Zev0 said:
    LOL I thought it only went live tomorrow..

    Erm I've been looking at that youtube preview frame all morning. Scared to click play here at work though. That's some provocative clay.

    I didn't even know they were gonna link it to the vid...If I knew that I would have updated it. That vid is an early WIP...

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited February 2013

    Zev0 said:
    I do not see what the big deal is here. If I go to RuntimeDNA, only products for their site can be advertised. We should just be grateful that Daz let this go on for as long as it did. Infact it was the only store to do so..I lost a lot of my WIP threads based on my products which were the building blocks for me becoming a vendor and half of them were not sold in the Daz store. But I understand why this was done. You won't find a Nike store allowing a selection of Addidas products now would you? So from a business point of few I understand. Yes a lot of valuable tips and renders were lost, lets just hope they can be recovered in some form. Yes the sudden closure of these threads is annoying, and will be missed, but I am sure an alternative solution will happen.

    I really do agree with you. What I am hoping is that they will continue to allow links to ShareCG etc for shared stuff. (if they forbid links to other commercial sites at all, I won't cry because it's just reciprocation for draconian policies that have existed for a long time, just don't cut off ShareCG and DeviantArt...)

    Post edited by wancow on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:

    I really do agree with you. What I am hoping is that they will continue to allow links to ShareCG etc for shared stuff. (if they forbid links to other commercial sites at all, I won't cry, just don't cut off ShareCG and DeviantArt...)

    DeviantArt is a commercial site from what I know, just not with main focus on 3D or 3D print.
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    I meant "the competition" as it were... I've had so many things deleted on another site because I put a link in it isn't funny. I never linked to any products, either... just to free stuff and discussions.

  • pcicconepciccone Posts: 661
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:

    Umm look at the total views at industry news compare to what the commercial threads had. My one thread had 4 times the amount of views compared to that:) It's all about exposure and that thread is simply pointless...
    That was really not the point of my comment. Renderosity has an outlet where those kind of announcements can be made without the thread being deleted. After all, Bobvan, the customer who posted about the Reality update, was only trying to help other Studio users. He had no commercial interest in telling people about the update. He was just being nice to others. Nevertheless his thread was deleted. Not moved to another area. Deleted without warning.
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Pret-A-3D said:
    Zev0 said:

    Umm look at the total views at industry news compare to what the commercial threads had. My one thread had 4 times the amount of views compared to that:) It's all about exposure and that thread is simply pointless...
    That was really not the point of my comment. Renderosity has an outlet where those kind of announcements can be made without the thread being deleted. After all, Bobvan, the customer who posted about the Reality update, was only trying to help other Studio users. He had no commercial interest in telling people about the update. He was just being nice to others. Nevertheless his thread was deleted. Not moved to another area. Deleted without warning.

    Exactly my experience. What's insane is that these people make their living off Victoria 4, which is a DAZ product, yet linking to DAZ is verboten...

    I do NOT blame DAZ for implementing this policy at all.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Pret-A-3D said:
    Zev0 said:

    Umm look at the total views at industry news compare to what the commercial threads had. My one thread had 4 times the amount of views compared to that:) It's all about exposure and that thread is simply pointless...
    That was really not the point of my comment. Renderosity has an outlet where those kind of announcements can be made without the thread being deleted. After all, Bobvan, the customer who posted about the Reality update, was only trying to help other Studio users. He had no commercial interest in telling people about the update. He was just being nice to others. Nevertheless his thread was deleted. Not moved to another area. Deleted without warning.

    Exactly my experience. What's insane is that these people make their living off Victoria 4, which is a DAZ product, yet linking to DAZ is verboten...

    I do NOT blame DAZ for implementing this policy at all.

    I wonder, maybe DAZ should make their liscense agreement for Generation 4 and Generation 5 (Genesis) products only marketable via DAZ...

    Oh the insanity that will ensue!

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    Just a quick point - I noticed the promo screen says 50% off but when you click on it and find your G&B product it now shows 40%... which is true? It also says "This weekend only" but over here in the UK it is still Wednesday. Maybe you have looong weekends Stateside?

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    anikad said:
    araneldon said:
    Just got a newsletter from another vendor who has left DAZ...

    I think I got the same email.

    Yup me too.

  • JuliKJuliK Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Frist, sorry my bad english. :P

    Normally I don´t go in these discussions, but I was so shocked that I need to say something. I understand the decision regarding advertising of products from other sites. That is the same way in any other community. (Renderosity, and others) I only buy here and at renderosity. I´ll not stop buying in daz or start using poser (eek!) because of this. And after all, this forum is still better (although I'm not a person who post frequently) than others foruns out there ... I don´t dare to post on the forum at Renderosity, because most people there do not like daz studio and I have witnessed many fights and stupid comments about daz. I only have 2 or 3 good friends there. Much of the vendors there, sells only products for Poser and some of them sell for both programs. And I believe that DAZ studio has yet a bright future ahead, while the other software is stagnant. I can´t post on CGSociety because they are elitist and many people there do not consider DAZ / Poser arts as arts ... (which is BS).
    I LOVE Daz Studio and I love genesis. I will continue to support in what I can. Because, with or without commercial thread, I would / will continue shopping here.

    But I agree that they have exaggerated. Why close/hide threads for a WIP product that will be (or would be) sold here? (the Garibaldi Hair for exemple) Or theards for plugins as Reality and the Octane? This I don´t really understand. I think it was a little... extreme.

    I stumbled on this thread after searching for a Mec4D´s product to see if it was still on sale and it was on shop until yesterday, but now I can not find anymore. I tried to get into theads she created and I was barred. I thought it was a bug, I never imagined something like this ... The good thing is that I know I can find the product on her website. I just hope she does not stop supporting DAZ, because I love her products. (Like SickleYield´s products and several others).
    Again, I understand the decision and I think it makes sense .... I just think it may have exaggerated a bit ....

    Can we link to deviantart ( we can upload freebies things there too) or other freebie site?

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    swordkensia said:
    Oh DAZ3D what have you done..

    Why did you not just start a 3rd party specific section of your forum.??

    I think your colours have now been very clearly nailed to the mast..business, business, BUSINESS.

    A sad day indeed.

    S.K.


    I think a 3rd Party Merchant forum is a really brilliant idea!

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,411
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_BHowell said:
    scorpio64dragon said:
    If there are to be no linking to other commercial sites, how will this effect the linking of free stuff on sites that are commercial. For example I know that for the freebie challenge you have to post links to where you got the item, if its a commercial site will this still be allowed?

    DAZ is not prohibiting all links to all other commercial sites. DAZ is just limiting the posting in the Commercial thread section to DAZ PAs and their products published on the DAZ site.

    Thank you for your answer, its good to hear that there isn't going to be a blanket ban.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_BHowell said:
    Epithumia said:
    Since DAZ3D no longer allows promotions to other sites, despite the MASSIVE amount of free advertising those sites give DAZ3D, I am no longer promoting DAZ.

    I've just deleted every sharecg freebie I offered that enhanced a DAZ product. Many of them were 4-5 star rated items.

    Our data shows that this was a VERY one sided exchange and that DAZ was sending huge amounts of traffic to competing (and other) sites while getting few referrals in return.

    We have not made any changes to our freebie section or links to sharecg.

    Of course DAZ wants to facilitate the community aspects of this forum. DAZ spends a significant amount of money hosting and moderating this forum. It is by its very existence a community building tool. But DAZ wants this to be a DAZ community tool.

    It is not logical or fair that DAZ should take revenue earned by brokering DAZ PA products and use it to promote competing sites or 3rd party products.

    I'm sorry, your numbers must be wrong then BHowell. How can you even say such a thing in all honesty? You make the Generation 4 and Genesis figures as well as DAZ Studio. If merchants and freebie providers are making stuff for any or all of those products where do you think new customers or current customers are going to come? HERE! I don't know who implemented this new set of rules but their minds do not work the way most of your customers minds do apparently!

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,086
    edited December 1969

    Pret-A-3D said:
    Zev0 said:

    Umm look at the total views at industry news compare to what the commercial threads had. My one thread had 4 times the amount of views compared to that:) It's all about exposure and that thread is simply pointless...
    That was really not the point of my comment. Renderosity has an outlet where those kind of announcements can be made without the thread being deleted. After all, Bobvan, the customer who posted about the Reality update, was only trying to help other Studio users. He had no commercial interest in telling people about the update. He was just being nice to others. Nevertheless his thread was deleted. Not moved to another area. Deleted without warning.

    I agree with you there.. a notice would have been nice...

  • FuselingFuseling Posts: 243
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    swordkensia said:
    Oh DAZ3D what have you done..

    Why did you not just start a 3rd party specific section of your forum.??

    I think your colours have now been very clearly nailed to the mast..business, business, BUSINESS.

    A sad day indeed.

    S.K.


    I think a 3rd Party Merchant forum is a really brilliant idea!

    I agree! That way DAZ pas still have their own Commercial section, and DAZ can maintain more of its reputation as being a place that encourages people to improve overall at 3d art and renders, not just a store that only allows people to talk about its own items.

  • madisonx_c5746f56a5madisonx_c5746f56a5 Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    marble said:
    Just a quick point - I noticed the promo screen says 50% off but when you click on it and find your G&B product it now shows 40%... which is true? It also says "This weekend only" but over here in the UK it is still Wednesday. Maybe you have looong weekends Stateside?

    Same problem here. I asked him about it and he is trying to figure it out.

    I don't understand why Daz has these problems so often. Sales and discounts are a nightmare on this site.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited February 2013

    marble said:
    Just a quick point - I noticed the promo screen says 50% off but when you click on it and find your G&B product it now shows 40%... which is true? It also says "This weekend only" but over here in the UK it is still Wednesday. Maybe you have looong weekends Stateside?

    OK - now someone has updated the price ... it is 50%. :)

    BUT ... when I try to but it I get 404 Not Found!

    Post edited by marble on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,086
    edited December 1969

    fuseling said:
    RAMWolff said:
    swordkensia said:
    Oh DAZ3D what have you done..

    Why did you not just start a 3rd party specific section of your forum.??

    I think your colours have now been very clearly nailed to the mast..business, business, BUSINESS.

    A sad day indeed.

    S.K.


    I think a 3rd Party Merchant forum is a really brilliant idea!

    I agree! That way DAZ pas still have their own Commercial section, and DAZ can maintain more of its reputation as being a place that encourages people to improve overall at 3d art and renders, not just a store that only allows people to talk about its own items.

    I suggested the same thing and it might be looked into..

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    fuseling said:
    RAMWolff said:
    swordkensia said:
    Oh DAZ3D what have you done..

    Why did you not just start a 3rd party specific section of your forum.??

    I think your colours have now been very clearly nailed to the mast..business, business, BUSINESS.

    A sad day indeed.

    S.K.


    I think a 3rd Party Merchant forum is a really brilliant idea!

    I agree! That way DAZ pas still have their own Commercial section, and DAZ can maintain more of its reputation as being a place that encourages people to improve overall at 3d art and renders, not just a store that only allows people to talk about its own items.

    I suggested the same thing and it might be looked into..

    I hope so, it will help salvage some of the relationships here between DAZ and 3'rd party vendors I think!

This discussion has been closed.