Genesis PP14 & the Furture ?
RorrKonn
Posts: 509
Since Poser Pro 14 seems to be a lot like DAZ Studio was woundering if DAZ was going to just rig Genesis for Poser ?
is the furture still DSON ?
Was just woundering if any one new what's in the furture ?
Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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Comments
A lot like DS? How?
I suppose because of subdivision and weightmapping and poser skinning.
Since they have a conversion tool already in place to convert to Poser format, I don't expect they'll be changing anything with this generation. Perhaps future Genesis models might come with Poser specific weight maps though.
While many of the functions are similar; how they are done internally are completely different. It's just like cars & comparing a Ford focus with a Honda Civic. Both cars move you form A to B; but you can't use Ford parts in the Civic.
The importer already converts genesis to poser rigging and weightmaps, that's how it's able to run in Poser. Any speed improvements really have to come from SM adopting the tech, not sidestepping it.
That's what DSON is a chevy motor in a ford car.
If it's up to ford to get the chevy motor to run faster.
Don't know about winning any races.
Think I'd build a ford motor.
We may hope that it's possible for DAZ to use the native SubD in Poser 10 to avoid having to constantly reapply its own SubD via the importer, that should bring a useful performance boost. However, I have no idea whether DAZ has been given advance access to the new version so we may have to wait (at least, by what's been posted elsewhere, there's a good chance that the DSON Importer itself will work in P10/PP2014).
One certainly hopes so. There appear to be a few nice new features in 2014, but the new base characters, Roxie and Rex, are even less aesthetically appealing than the last two go-rounds. Which is really surprising considering how many good "indie" figures have popped up in the past few years, and that SM surely must have had access to Blackhearted's Anastasia, Shae, et. al. (One has to wonder if DAZ has a mole inside SM, making helpful suggestions like "Hey, let's pick the one with the stumpy arms and weird shoulders...")
Richard Haseltine : If Poser is not just as fast with or with out DSON ,then there be complainer ,that it's slow.
Cybersox13 :
There's a million CGI Artist. out of that Million ,maybe 5 solo CGI Artist could model M5 .Maybe only 3 solo CGI Artist could model V5.
you can wade threw pages n pages of people at turbo most just not quit right .only a very few 2 or 3 Artist can = Vicky but it's just a single girl.
it's 100% more difficult to model a pretty girl then a dude.
it's 100% more difficult to model a 100% quads Sub-dividable mesh.then a game mesh.
Only the modern day CGI Da Vinci's Can model decent looking 100% quads Sub-dividable humans for weight map rigging in standard App's.
My point was that there HAVE been some very nice CG characters originating outside of DAZ. RDNA's My Michelle, Antonia, and Blackhearted's reworking of the Alyson figure would all have been very tempting had Genesis not come along. And all of those creators had considerably less deep pocketbooks than Smith Micro. But it's not just about the aesthetics of the new figures, it's also about the fact that SM keeps missing a basic marketing error in the "new Poser, new figures," mindset: ie, if they're going to keep opting to reinvent the wheel every time (rather than making minor improvements that would allow the new software to use the older clothing and accessories with minimal conflicts,) none of their characters are ever going to build a content base that can come close to what's available for Gen 4, because the experienced vendors don't want to create product for a figure that has a shelf life of three years. Which is why a huge percentage of the product on Content Paradise is for Daz Gen 4 rather than Sydney and Jesse and Judy, etc.
...now if only Daz Studio5 Pro would get a "Cloth Tab" so we can create our own dynamics, the two apps would almost be on equal footing.
"if they’re going to keep opting to reinvent the wheel every time (rather than making minor improvements that would allow the new software to use the older clothing and accessories with minimal conflicts,) none of their characters are ever going to build a content base that can come close to what’s available for Gen 4"
Of course, one of the 'minor improvements' to PP2014 is the ability to fit any clothing to any figure, so the PP2014 users will have Gen4's entire wardrobe to play with.
Bill
With Poser Pro 2014, any figure can now have the same extensive wardrobe as V4. Well, other than the males. Since M4 never had all that extensive a wardrobe either. But he too can have V4's wardrobe.
My point was that there HAVE been some very nice CG characters originating outside of DAZ. RDNA's My Michelle, Antonia, and Blackhearted's reworking of the Alyson figure would all have been very tempting had Genesis not come along. And all of those creators had considerably less deep pocketbooks than Smith Micro. But it's not just about the aesthetics of the new figures, it's also about the fact that SM keeps missing a basic marketing error in the "new Poser, new figures," mindset: ie, if they're going to keep opting to reinvent the wheel every time (rather than making minor improvements that would allow the new software to use the older clothing and accessories with minimal conflicts,) none of their characters are ever going to build a content base that can come close to what's available for Gen 4, because the experienced vendors don't want to create product for a figure that has a shelf life of three years. Which is why a huge percentage of the product on Content Paradise is for Daz Gen 4 rather than Sydney and Jesse and Judy, etc.
You caught that 'minor improvement' too!
1) That's not a improvement in figure tech if you have to borrow from your library because no one wants to make clothing for other figures and 2) looking at those videos, it's not a one click solution and will probably require more skill in adjusting scale and spheres than the regular user has, which is probably why it's a "Pro" feature rather than a "basic feature".
I think a lot of you are going to be in the same boat, clothing-wise once the excitement wears off.
"Any speed improvements really have to come from SM adopting the tech, not sidestepping it."
Oh you are so sure of that are you? A really simple thing in the new PP 2014 will be to just poserize the genesis figure after using the import which I hear is easy, but then DSON needs an on off switch. Because DSON will continually slow things by running in poser everytime the figure is posed, which won't be necessary in PP 2014. DAZ will need to make this very simple change and then I think everything will be wonderful.
Then maybe some way to not have the whole stack of morphs all in the one figure may be helpful too. I think daz could do that bit as well.
Love esther
This is sidestepping.
1) there will be issues of getting the materials since Poser can't natively read the DUFs.
2) You will still have the issue of fitting clothes with any custom shapes, particularly those that doesn't have poser 2014.
3) Fitting room will probably not be the one click solution people autofit clone some people thinks it will be. I see lots of scaling and fitting, simulations and adjusting spheres, which if you don't know how to do, you're going have to learn. This is why it's a Pro feature, not a basic feature.
4) Also looks like transfer morphs won't update clothing, meaning you have to run it again and save it back.
5) The companion files are there for a reason, for vendors to set up the calls for morphs and materials. You'll have to do that work yourself if you sidestep the files.
I'm sure there will be more issue as you poserize it that someone will have to figure their way around to patch.
So yeah, many of these issues a power user can work their way around, but it's not a solution for the masses... which is why none of those weightmapped V4s or D3s have caught on to create any specific content for them. (Besides the fact that most of D3s content and especially morphs have been vaulted)
This is why it needs to be natively read and done by SM.
Because DSON will continually slow things by running in poser everytime the figure is posed, which won't be necessary in PP 2014. DAZ will need to make this very simple change and then I think everything will be wonderful.
Then maybe some way to not have the whole stack of morphs all in the one figure may be helpful too. I think daz could do that bit as well.
Love esther
Again this is why the functionality needs to be native. DSON is a common platform; so while I can see them attempting to plug into Poser's new subdivision (only if SM put the whole opensubdiv spec in with the edge vertices... I think that's what it's called, it's not in SM's literature), that's only going to solve possibly the posing, but not the loading or morph transfer issues. Since there's no selective morph loading (though nice, I'm doubting that's going to be added especially just for Poser... you'll probably have to manipulate your directories to load what you want)
It's nice that you're excited, however you probably should wait until you have the product in your hand actually try to do some of the conversion of more complicated outfits that will actually put the fitting room through its paces before you make these posts.
what issues in getting the materials in? YOu use dson as you normally would. You then poserize the Cr2 using their new poser skinning thing. so you have a genesis figure that now fits whatever clothes you put on it at the time when you poserized it. then you need to turn dson off (just while you're using the figure in poser).
But you're still sidestepping. This still isn't a solution for the masses.
It will be a good enough solution for me. SM have done their bit already I think when you see PP 2014, and now daz has to just make a nice simple adjustment. Oh and if I find it useful (and I"m not that smart) others will too.
Don't think the whole thing will be as simple as you think it is, but I'm glad you're excited about it nonetheless.
Thou Blackhearted Alyson morph is killer ,don't know if I would compare a morph to a mesh.
I'll give RDNA there creds for My Michelle.
Thou I swear there alt to be a clear link to My Michelle on every page.Ya half to hunt for her.
Michelle Redux Hot.
Antonia ,It took ODF 4 years to make her with wings.I swear they alt to give ODF Autodesk Max for that accomplishment.
But I get what ya saying about Poser making new character for every upgrade.
But the concept of a unimesh ,one mesh for every thing boys,girls,monster ect ect is a DAZ concept.
I get why DAZ makes a unimesh.
But C4D,Max,zBrush etc etc users might not follow that philosophy.
thanks, yes I am very excited. I have bought genesis figures and clothes but not used them as yet. I have a specific character in mind who I will be able to dress etc.
I do think it will be good if daz puts an on-off switch on dson. We shall see. not long to go now.
Sorry, I watched the demo videos and it appears to be just a tweaked up version of wardrobe wizard or clothes converter, things that have been available for years and have yet to catch on with the average 3D hobbyist. Remember, you have to go through that whole process they show for every single figure, whereas the beauty of Genesis is that it really is a one size fits all solution. I'll be the first to admit that DAZ's Autofit is far from perfect, but its still years ahead of what's demoed.
Anyone can make a figure, and I've seen better ones on turbo squid. She was released for all the wrong reasons, and now she's pretty much forgotten content-wise, even freebies.
But I get what ya saying about Poser making new character for every upgrade.
But the concept of a unimesh ,one mesh for every thing boys,girls,monster ect ect is a DAZ concept.
I get why DAZ makes a unimesh.
But C4D,Max,zBrush etc etc users might not follow that philosophy.
Those other programs don't follow that philosophy because they're making one-use characters or sculpts. Any animation, emotions, etc are made for that particular characters with no reuse in mind. If DAZ was following that philosophy, there really wouldn't be a main character for sale, people would have to build their own and render them.
Not really getting your argument here, since there wouldn't be vendors as they are now, and you would be on turbosquid with everyone else buying $200+ meshes to modify for their work or just building their own.
It's a lot of hard work creating a figure so I'm not sure why some people here are so rude and spiteful and attack other artists work. It's not constructive to continually belittle others
Have you used Poser Pro 2014? If you've no experience with the new Fitting Room, why are you so adamant it is such a worthless feature and that it's so difficult a "regular" Poser user won't be able to use it?
Sure, we're basing our expectations about the Fitting Room on the videos we've watched and on the experiences of those who have been testing it. But, these are people who have been reliable on their experiences testing previous versions of Poser / Poser Pro. So, if you haven't been one of those testers, I'd prefer to trust their experiences over your assumptions.
Don't think the whole thing will be as simple as you think it is, but I'm glad you're excited about it nonetheless.
I assume that the solution is very obvious but its hard to be seen because of someones or somebody's Ego stepping in the way...
All there is to be done is for someone to admit that "we where wrong" and the second sentence to be " lets take it together from now on"...like a merge or something.
Take Adobe for example...they have all the clients of the world and they are happy for it..
Im not taking anyone's side but believe me...as soon as they understand the opportunities from such a collaboration they will do it...
Eventually when both of the companies will come near to an end by their choices , they will Unite...how do i know this? From my country's early history. Greece was about to collapse to ashes when 3 totally different political parties united, in order to save what was left of our poor country....there is no other way! Whoever thinks that someone will prevail is very wrong!
It is not rude to point out obvious flaws in a commercial product that should have been pointed out before release. Perhaps if someone had been truthful up front and said "Hey those feet are horrible, you need to correct those" it may have been fixed before release. People don't learn by being coddled and told "That's nice", when you're looking at obvious flaws that had to be corrected anyway. People won't learn that way, and that's why things that are not good as they should be are put out there and people wonder why no one really uses them.
You haven't used it either. However I have converted clothing from other figures with different proportions and the fitting room is basically doing THE EXACT method I'm using to get them on my figures... scaling and fitting. This isn't for regular users, especially those that don't know how to rig anything. I know how to rig. You?