Subsurface Shaders... WOW!

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  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    I *think* I might be getting somewhere with these gummies. o_O Still working on the eyeballs.

    That's one creepy dude. Looks really nice! Is he a distant cousin of the prawns from District 9?
    lol Not a clue. You'd have to ask AntFarm. =P Saw his store was on sale today and remembered I had Zorn in my runtime.
    http://www.daz3d.com/zorn
  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited June 2013

    Ok, I'm having some issue with this mask and the plastic shaders. All of the different colors are on their own groupIDs (all white on one, all light purple on another, all dark purple on another). All of the white surfaces have identical settings, yet I have 2 objects on the same mat zone in the mouth area coming up gray and I can't figure out why. Any ideas? I'm using Wancow's 3 point/ue2 lighting; all I did was move it's camera and set the focal length/distance.

    Mask2.jpg
    1000 x 1000 - 376K
    Post edited by Lissa_xyz on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Vaskania said:
    I *think* I might be getting somewhere with these gummies. o_O Still working on the eyeballs.

    That's one creepy dude. Looks really nice! Is he a distant cousin of the prawns from District 9?

    lol Not a clue. You'd have to ask AntFarm. =P Saw his store was on sale today and remembered I had Zorn in my runtime.
    http://www.daz3d.com/zorn

    Just added to my wishlist based on your render :)

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Ok, I'm having some issue with this mask and the plastic shaders. All of the different colors are on their own groupIDs (all white on one, all light purple on another, all dark purple on another). All of the white surfaces have identical settings, yet I have 2 objects on the same mat zone in the mouth area coming up gray and I can't figure out why. Any ideas? I'm using Wancow's 3 point/ue2 lighting; all I did was move it's camera and set the focal length/distance.

    The two caps on the breathing tubes I'm guessing you are talking about, not sure if you are also referring to under the chin or not but it appears to be having the same issue. My guess would be that the settings are acting differently on those areas based on the size of the surface area in those spots reacting differently with the settings then other areas with a larger surface area. It's just a guess, but that's where I would look first.

  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    Well, the gray piece @ the bottom isn't actually part of the chin, it's part of the neck so I'm going to chalk that up to being shadowed; however, the bits on the front are being hit with direct lighting, and the smaller bit in the middle of the chin came out ok, a little darker from shadows, but still nowhere near as gray as the other 2 bits. >.< Going to go back through the PDF and check things, and hope I'm not gray haired by the end of it. lol

    Gedd said:
    Vaskania said:
    Vaskania said:
    I *think* I might be getting somewhere with these gummies. o_O Still working on the eyeballs.

    That's one creepy dude. Looks really nice! Is he a distant cousin of the prawns from District 9?

    lol Not a clue. You'd have to ask AntFarm. =P Saw his store was on sale today and remembered I had Zorn in my runtime.
    http://www.daz3d.com/zorn

    Just added to my wishlist based on your render :)

    Haha good call. =D

  • KinichKinich Posts: 878
    edited December 1969

    @ Vaskania

    I would guess the white/grey issue is related to the Shading Scale of the surfaces, please see the pictures below for an example.

    4 sphere primitives with diameters of 1cm, 5cm,10cm & 25cm. Applied the shiny white plastic setting and a medium quality from the shader pack. the lighting is from DTs Daz Dimensions pack 1 (set 01), an UE2 sphere & a raytraced distant light.

    The four images have had the Shading Scale adjusted only, no other settings were changed.

    Image 1 Shading Scale = 1 (Shader Preset Medium)
    Image 1 Shading Scale = 0.2 (Shader Preset Small)
    Image 1 Shading Scale = 0.1
    Image 1 Shading Scale = 0.05

    As you can see with higher Shading rates small objects appear grey, as the Shading Scale is lowered they get whiter.

    Spheres-01-SS-005.png
    800 x 500 - 108K
    Spheres-01-SS-01.png
    800 x 500 - 92K
    Spheres-01-SS-02.png
    800 x 500 - 83K
    Spheres-01-SS-10.png
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  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited June 2013

    Kinich said:
    @ Vaskania

    I would guess the white/grey issue is related to the Shading Scale of the surfaces...


    That was what I was thinking of but was blanking on the particular attribute at the time. Vaskania did pont out that the mouth piece was not getting dark even though that surface area is supposedly the same size. I would check two things though, as this still might be the issue. One, is the mouth plug it's own surface, or attached to another surface, and two, does rotating the head change the balance of light/dark on the three plugs? Of course, just testing scaling on them would be faster, but I'm overly thorough myself so I'd check all 3. I've found shading scale to be an important parameter in my tests.
    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    Hopefully this helps to show some of the matzones. Changing the shading rate down to .05 didn't help, and putting that surface in it's own group made it render black.

    matzones.jpg
    500 x 666 - 211K
  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    Changed angle.

    anglechange.jpg
    500 x 666 - 148K
  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,099
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Changed angle.

    You may be dealing with an optical illusion here. Two objects that are the same shade will look darker on a light background when compared to a dark background. In the example below, the center squares are all the same shade of gray. Even with color, the lighter/darker illusion will hold true.
    6a010534b1db25970b017ee67f8cc5970d-400wi.png
    400 x 400 - 3K
  • kittenwyldekittenwylde Posts: 151
    edited December 1969

    I know it's just a demo, but I really love that colorful mask. Might have to do something like that myself. Thanks for the inspiration! :)

  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited June 2013

    Well, I'll have to go back to messing with this tomorrow or the next day. I just spent all day troubleshooting my home network, and had a very nice tech guy out to test my lines. I just spent the last hour or so locking down a new router and adding in the mac filters. >.< My brain does not want to troubleshoot anything else right now. lol

    I know it's just a demo, but I really love that colorful mask. Might have to do something like that myself. Thanks for the inspiration! :)

    Haha nice.
    Post edited by Lissa_xyz on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,455
    edited June 2013

    So far I have found, that Subsurface Gummy & Plastic Shader is the easiest to use,
    so below is Daz Studio Pro 4.6 render of the Toon-Bot Chomper
    http://www.daz3d.com/toon-bot-chomper
    with most of its materials replaced with Subsurface Gummy & Plastic Shader.
    Lights are provided by Ring of Light - Environment Lighting
    http://www.daz3d.com/ring-of-light-environment-lighting
    Rendering Time: 11 minutes 31.30 seconds

    Chomper14pic01.jpg
    1000 x 1000 - 250K
    Post edited by Artini on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited June 2013

    Very nice :)

    I've noticed a number of good renders using Gummy & Plastic.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • IndigoneIndigone Posts: 86
    edited December 1969

    These are fantastic and fun shaders! I hope you make more AoA!

    I have a question about your lighting that you say you use. Why do you load an ambient light like UE2 *and* a sky dome? Doesn't UE2 come with it's own sphere? Do you delete that?

    Thanks and thanks.

  • ZamuelNowZamuelNow Posts: 753
    edited December 1969

    Was fiddling with this but then stopped as I got busy with other things. Using Age of Armour's own Paola skin on my own morphs.

    Paola_SSS.jpg
    900 x 1200 - 1017K
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,784
    edited December 1969

    Indigone said:
    These are fantastic and fun shaders! I hope you make more AoA!

    I have a question about your lighting that you say you use. Why do you load an ambient light like UE2 *and* a sky dome? Doesn't UE2 come with it's own sphere? Do you delete that?

    Thanks and thanks.

    The UE2 sphere is just a guide - the image is low-resolution, and iss et not to render though that can be changed.

  • StrixowlStrixowl Posts: 301
    edited December 1969

    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    This is an out-of-the-blue question, but do these shaders handle light directly behind something partially glowing through?

    So...let's say I set up a lightbulb (a light source of some kind) and surrounded it in a lampshade. Could I apply some variation on a sub-surface shader that showed the glow from the light inside? It strikes me that the classic image of an SSS is the light behind someone's ears shining through redly, which could also work as a lampshade, essentially.

    Thoughts?

    -- Morgan

    Yes you can. but with a disclaimer...

    SSS really needs a surface for the light to enter and exit. So if you plop a point light inside a single layer cylinder for a lamp shade you won't see any thing or you will see a mess hehe.

    There are 2 solutions. Either use the flip normals switch to turn the SSS calculation inside out which works but is not going to give very accurate results or you can add a second, inside layer to your lamp shade. In that case apply the same shader settings to both the inside and outside surfaces of the lamp shade except make the outside layer flip normals set to 0 and the inside set to 1.

    An easy way to add the layer is to use a geometry shell and off set it slightly.

    I posted an example a while back but can't remember what page it was on.

    I've noticed that both you and others refer to a Geometry Shell. What is it and how do I do it as in your example above?

  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,099
    edited December 1969

    "First Contact"
    Subsurface Shaders on the Alien and his stuff.

    First_Contact_final.jpg
    1200 x 900 - 489K
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,040
    edited December 1969

    ...looks like the nefarious bushy tailed rodent has met his match. ; )

  • kittenwyldekittenwylde Posts: 151
    edited December 1969

    LOL Poor, confused alien! Great image. :)

  • Mr Gneiss GuyMr Gneiss Guy Posts: 462
    edited December 1969

    My money is on the squirrel.

  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited June 2013

    An unfortunate, yet amusing, side effect of using the sss base on Luthbel's Nightworld Fallen. Happens whether I straight click or ctrl click + ignore. His body and tail seem to puff up like he's having a bad allergic reaction.

    Nightworld_subsurface_wtf.jpg
    500 x 666 - 104K
    Post edited by Lissa_xyz on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,784
    edited December 1969

    Set the displacement min and max to zero, if they aren't being used.

  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited June 2013

    I did on the surfaces that didn't have it. The head/face area has displacement, even though it's ramped up to 200% with a min/max of -1.5/1.5. I have to play with the values of everything. Putting displacement down to 100% on the head/lips fixes the face (at least on a low quality non-closeup), but leaves everything else around it out of proportion and misaligned. I might save out a separate SSS preset just for this guy once I get him fixed. o_O

    How would I do that? Just File > Save As > Shader Preset?

    /edit
    Why would the SSS cause his texture to do that even though the displacement is just as high on the default textures before applying SSS?

    Post edited by Lissa_xyz on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,040
    edited December 1969

    ...been running into an odd "striping" issue along the neck and arms when applying the Toon or SSS toolbox skin shaders.


    It seems to occur only on some characters like Nata and my Leela Teen.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,784
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    I did on the surfaces that didn't have it. The head/face area has displacement, even though it's ramped up to 200% with a min/max of -1.5/1.5. I have to play with the values of everything. Putting displacement down to 100% on the head/lips fixes the face (at least on a low quality non-closeup), but leaves everything else around it out of proportion and misaligned. I might save out a separate SSS preset just for this guy once I get him fixed. o_O

    How would I do that? Just File > Save As > Shader Preset?

    /edit
    Why would the SSS cause his texture to do that even though the displacement is just as high on the default textures before applying SSS?

    Try applying a mid-grey image to the areas which didn't have any displacement map - I'm not sure if that will help, but if it does it will be diagnostic.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,784
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...been running into an odd "striping" issue along the neck and arms when applying the Toon or SSS toolbox skin shaders.


    It seems to occur only on some characters like Nata and my Leela Teen.

    There was some discussion of this - I think the fix was lowering the Shading rate, or possibly adjusting the Sub surface scale.

  • StrixowlStrixowl Posts: 301
    edited December 1969

    Geometry Shell. What is it and how do I do it ?

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,504
    edited December 1969

    Strixowl said:
    Geometry Shell. What is it and how do I do it ?

    Think of a geometry shell as a coating over your 3D model. It shares the same surfaces but is offset slightly, so you can use it for many different effects. To add one, you can either use the Create -> New Geometry Shell option, or find the shortcut icon for it which looks like a filled-in cube. Geometry shells cannot be created without a parent, so select the object you want to create a shell for before adding the geometry shell.
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