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I have a problem with SSS - the models appear to have mangled geometry when rendered (they look normal in OpenGL preview). No settings need to be changed for that to occur - I just apply the base shader. The effect is more pronounced if one leaves certain surfaces without SSS (eyes and eyelashes without SSS in example below - face skin has SSS applied), but not necessarily - the ear got mangled even though it had no other surface nearby. Same thing happens with nose/nostrils, lips (mangled so heavily, that teeth are showing through), nails, navel - basically any small/thin element of the mesh. Haven't tried on hair - am afraid to.
I don't think this was happening before the 1.1 upgrade, but I haven't tried it seriously before - just loaded and tried some gummy effects on random props. So I don't know...
Is there a solution to this?
My system - MacOS X 10.8, DS 4.6, the model was Genesis + YT morph + V4 skin (all stock).
There's no problem with UberSurface 2, HSS or any other shader I apply in the same scene. So it must be something funny with SSS.
Please, help!
P.S. I tried to look through the thread but might've missed if anyone else experienced this - my problem is not related to visibility/opacity.
SOLVED. Sorry, I missed the displacement problem - didn't think it would apply. Thank you for a wonderful shader!!!
Displacement.
Thanks, Scorpio, I found it!
Can anyone give me any tips on applying the Toon shaders on something that was not really meant to take them. Like a surface on another figure or model.
I encountered another problem that I can't solve - pronounced radial effect of subsurface scattering (in layman terms: every time I use SSS my characters look like they swallowed an electric lamp). I played with the scale, grouping but got nowhere.
It seems to me it should be a shading scale thing (if I set SS color to rosy red, then the belly of the character is bright red, her shoulders and things are about normal and head and feet look darker than they should - I'll post some renders later), so I tried a variety of settings, but they didn't help.
Btw., as a rule of thumb what scale setting I should use for a full height human figure that's, for example, front and center in my render?
And another question if I may:
I've got quite a few Poser characters with SSS textures. I know they're incompatible, but is there a way to approximate same effect? I discovered that if I load those textures in DS the specularity is blown enormously (usually set to 100% strength and 85-98% glossiness. I also noticed that specular color seems to correspond with SSS effect in promos. I experimented a bit setting the specular color as an SSS color in subsurface, but was lost setting other parameters (absorption and scattering amounts mostly).
Did anyone tried to "convert" SSS settings from Poser to DS with subsurface shader? Can you share the ideas? Unfortunately I don't have Poser so I can't compare except with promo images. I'm also beset with the problem stated above so my experiments are fruitless for now...
Thank you!
Are you talking about the "wax on" shader? I seem to remember someone here in the forums was trying to get a similar waxy look, but unfortunately I can't remember what thread it is in.
Coldrake
Yeah, "wax on" (nice name, heh). Pseudo-translucence. Also a little shine sometimes. I'll try and search for that thread, thank you!
...OK set up a scene with the A3 character Xin Xin, went to the Surfaces tab, selected all the skin MAT zones, selected one of the Toon SSS shaders, and nothing happened. Is this only useable on Genesis characters?
As a test, I tried the base SSS shader and that worked though it didn't give the results I wanted.
I believe that the Subsurface toon shaders are base V4's UV so they might not work on Generation 3 figures, I've not tried but I know if using them on Genesis you need to reset the UV map settings if you are applying them over existing texture maps that are not base on V4 UV sets, the old CTRL & Click (or CMD & Click on a MAC I think) option & ignore images option selected in the pop up. I don't have any Gen 3 figures installed so I can't check.
I had a bit of fun with the sugar setting.
I believe that the Subsurface toon shaders are base V4's UV so they might not work on Generation 3 figures, I've not tried but I know if using them on Genesis you need to reset the UV map settings if you are applying them over existing texture maps that are not base on V4 UV sets, the old CTRL & Click (or CMD & Click on a MAC I think) option & ignore images option selected in the pop up. I don't have any Gen 3 figures installed so I can't check.
From the Doc for the product:
"Bring your anime styled Genesis characters to life with these subsurface scattering skin materials.
The set comes with heavy subsurface scattering skintone presets and a number of partial presets to apply different lip glossiness, tanlines and others.
42 eye presets and 13 eyelash materials are included as well as custom morphs to give Genesis deep, refractive irises. The set is completed with conforming, toon style eyebrows."
I experimented with the Toon shaders and Aiko 3 LE also and the shaders are specific to Genesis somehow.
It doesn't have anything specific to the UVs apparently. The Toon Subsurface shaders worked fine on the Skullcrusher Ogre for example, and that has its own UVs.
The Subsurface Toolbox Shaders and the Gummy and Plastic Subsurface Shaders work fine on Aiko 3 and basically any object surface.
I suspect the Toon shaders are specific to the surface naming or hierarchy of the Genesis1 figure somehow.
ETA: Something that may give a further clue to the Genesis-specific nature of Toon Shaders: When the entire Genesis figure is selected, skin-related textures apply only to the skin, eye-related to the eyes, etc.
I believe that the Subsurface toon shaders are base V4's UV so they might not work on Generation 3 figures, I've not tried but I know if using them on Genesis you need to reset the UV map settings if you are applying them over existing texture maps that are not base on V4 UV sets, the old CTRL & Click (or CMD & Click on a MAC I think) option & ignore images option selected in the pop up. I don't have any Gen 3 figures installed so I can't check.
...yeah, looks like the mapping won't accept it even using the CTRL Click. Ended up applying the regular SSS base (that did work) and messed around a bit with it.
..tjohn thanks for the additional information. Pity as the only "real" anime characters for Genesis are Hitomi and Hiro5 since Aiko went more the realistic route (though she's still awfully cute).
Maybe if I transfer her via GenX (I have the AIko3/Hiro3 GenX expansion) I should be able to get them to work. Will have to experiment with that tonight.
Has anyone got these bright edges after applying SSS? If I change camera angle, they go away, but I may get them on other edges? It generally runs down edges that are perpendicular to the camera in most cases, but not all edges like that... This is a picture, using an IBL, and a diffuse and a specular light. Same lighting in both, just one with and one without SSS.
That's probably the Velvet setting. Try adjusting it down a bit.
If you are talking about the lighting along the arm, I had the same issue and it was the velvet in my case like tjohn mentioned.
I know this is not DIRECTLY related to this particular SSS shader but it's about it anyways. I was messing around with the SSS settings on my old Bruno skin. Have to say I don't think he needs new skin, I think he needs SSS, OMG... I'm impressed with what I was able to accomplish until....
Well I was going crazy getting things set up and wanted to have it as a new preset to share but .... all of a sudden the test renders and the full test renders were coming out black. That's kind of a let down. Not sure what happened in the minute before and after but can't get it to come back. Some severity issue from what I can see.
Any suggestions on how to get things straightened out with this? Perhaps a cache that I can delete or something?
Try reapplying the base SSS shader.
Edit: I found the reference where AoA mentioned this for a problem that sounds a little bit similar. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/335971/
I really like the guy's head morph can i ask what charcater this is? Its M5 daves morph?
This is MDD Raquel (Renderosity) transformed to Genesis using GenX. The vendor does not test in DAZ Studio or provide materials for DS. The Poser non-SSS material does work, sort of , in DS. The specular setup seems to completely turn specular off in DS. I’m sure it does not do that in Poser, but DS only interprets the most basic information in Poser materials.
Anyway I transferred the materials to use the new Subsurface Shader. I used the Subsurface Toolbox to help setup SSS and the specular. The vendor does not appear to provide a specular map, at least I could not find one. I used specular maps from the V4 Elite Texture Lana in the specular setup.
This portrait is a shameless attempt to reproduce the promo image of MDD Raquel, which was done in Poser using the Poser SSS material. I find it an instructive exercise to try to reproduce the lighting used by the pros. You learn a lot about the details of lighting that they use. The shadows are your guide to light placement and intensity. The key light I used was an InaneGlory beauty dish camera right and above. This was placed fairly far from the model to match the hardness of the shadows. The fill light was an InaneGlory softbox camera left. The render was at gamma 2.2 with gamma correction. The fill intensity was about 1/16th the key.
The vendor promo image has a reddish skin tone, almost like she is has a light sunburn. I think this comes from very strong SSS settings in the Poser SSS material. I don’t like that sunburned look or the wax mannequin look that you get with really strong SSS. I deliberately decided to use more moderate SSS settings in my skin material. It has an appearance that I find more natural looking.
No post work other than adding my signature.
...looks really nice. I have Fabiana's Druscilla Goth (which was updated with better Daz shaders) who is the base for my Violet character. I'll have to try a low to medium SSS setting on her.
Was going to post the results I got with the base SSS shaders on Xin Xin but need to do a bit of touchup in postwork to insure she is TOS compliant.
...started setting up a scene last night using the Subsurface Plastic shaders. Test renders looked great. However, today when I reopened the scene, added the Yamaki Motorcycle, applied the real metal shaders to it then rendered. The items I used the Plastic shaders on all came out white as if I am only getting a mask. What caused it I don't know The only fix I can think of is to delete the props (one of which tool a long tile parenting and posing correctly) and starting all over. Just reapplying the prop's original Map doesn't fully delete the SSS shaders and it still renders white.
Attached are a screen shot of the viewport and rendered image.
When this happens to me from time to time, I save the scene under a new name as is, white rendering stuff and all.
Then I shut down DS and restart it and re-open the new save. So far this always works so that the surfaces render correctly.
Quick question I haven't though of until now. Do you only set min/max displacement when displacement strength is 0, or also for 100% with no maps?
Click on link for large image simple used 1 distant lighthttp://bobvan.deviantart.com/art/3-385026623
When this happens to me from time to time, I save the scene under a new name as is, white rendering stuff and all.
Then I shut down DS and restart it and re-open the new save. So far this always works so that the surfaces render correctly.
...bugger, saved it under it's original name.
Any reason why this occurs?
OK just opened the file and rendered and everything looks fine again. Very odd, maybe a bug in the render engine or TLD.Make?
Err..I dont understand the question. :D For AoA SSS I tent to set min, max and strenght to 0 if i dont have maps or have maps but dont want displacement. I noticed that sometimes there would be some displacement (or was it bump) when there shouldnt be (as far as I know). If I remember correctly, it was when maps ware present, there was some min, max value but strength was 0 and character rendered with mouth or lips slightly opened. So I just put everything to 0 when I dont want displacement.
Richard Haseltine made a script to Zero Displacement Limits
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25642/
@ben: I've seen skins come with a strength of 100%, but no map (see screenshot- I did this myself, didn't feel like digging for one of my skins that does it). Those are the ones I'm not sure about. I already know to change min/max when the displacement strength is 0%. I don't know if displacement strength does anything without a map, or only when one's present.
@Kerya: Thanks, but I already have the SSS toolbox by DT. Seeing Richard's thread was what actually got me questioning the values. lol
If there's no map there would be no effect, so the min and max should still be zero.
Thanks. Just what I was looking for.