How about some parity?
vrba79
Posts: 1,357
For me, Sakura 8 is the latest reason not to invest in Genesis 8. Why? Because once again, there is no male counterpart, for an awesome stylized female character.
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I want a boyfriend for both Sakura and the new girl too. I forgot her name already, oops
I've had to take to using the Anime Doll for G2F, from Renderosity and the free male addon, just to have a pair of decent anime characters. Apparently Daz3D hates my money or something.
No, not enough people buy Male content to make it worthwhile for PAs to make more male stuff.
Good luck, I don't think DAZ has had a teen male since Jayden/Brodie/Genesis 2.
Lots and lots of scantily clad female teens though.
Ryan 7 was a teen male bundle the gi that came with it was super nice, although I didn't buy only so much I can afford so have to limit to one niche of each. Kenji 7 and Morpheus is closest DAZ Originals has come to anime / fairy toon styles with Genesis 3.
Wasn't counting Ryan because he isn't a teen, he's younger.
Yeah, if more people were buying male content, then PAs would certainly be williing to make more products. At least that's been the talk amongst ourselves. Now, that being said, I've found that my male poses sell better (on most occasions) than my female pose sets, which is why I continue to make them. Now, I could just be an anomoly, but it seems that the majority of PAs who make both male and female content say that their female sets sell much better by a shot. And skimpwear sells far better than contemporary "normal" clothes. It's an unfortunate fact that most of the PAs here are doing this to make a living and we have to pursue creating products that will generate income.
Again, that being said, I do know that if there were good content being made for the guys, they'd sell, because I often hear folks bemoaning the lack of content for the guys. It might not be huge money makers like the female content, but it shouldn't be ignored. That's why as I expand my skillset, I'm keeping in mind the guys as I work. I will continue to provide poses for them, as always, but I'll be making hair and outfits as well. Currently I'm working, in conjunction with Forbidden Whispers, on our next hair project and this one is for the guys.
Also, while I cannot say anything further due to the NDA I have with Daz, allow me to assure you that the males are not getting forgotten. Just tell your friends and fellow artists to buy more male content so that other PAs will feel more willing to take the risk on male content.
We hopefully will be approaching the time when the larger female pie is being cut up by so many competing products that that the admittedly smaller male pie with fewer competitor products will become a viable alternative option for PAs.
Could you please clarify? I don't understand why you think it's a BS excuse.
I am sorry to hear that you think that it is. When you're a creating products in order to earn a living, rather than just making a little extra spending money as a hobby, it's a valid reason. Most of the PAs I know here are doing this full time, with mortgages and bills to pay, families to feed. We have to make smart choices when we're trying to predict what products will make us money versus what would make it a well rounded market place. Sometimes we're lucky enough to have the wiggle room to pursue making a niche product that isn't in the customers' normal buying habits, and that helps expand the market place. But oftentimes we're trying to stay afloat - we have flops, even when we're making something that customers would normally eat up; or we don't make a product in a regular time frame because of something that came up in real life.
And while I understand and can sympathize with your frustrations, it's disappointing to know that you, as well as the others who have expressed similar sentiments on the subject, would paint me and my fellow PAs as a frivolous, vaccuous hoard that only wants to sell female products for our own titilation. We are business people, making business decisions based on market trends in order to put food on our tables. There is no kabbal. No conspiracy. We're not being lazy, insensitive, or uncaring. We're doing the best that we can in an unsteady economy.
Well, then just don't expect me to buy the female characters either then. They do me no good without a male counterpart. So its either use two-generations-old figures, or use mismatched newer ones. Oh well, at least going with the former I'm saving a bunch of money.
I think these toon style characters should always be male & female and be released the same day in 1 pro bundle. That will increase sales by a lot, although not by 2 times the female pro bundle alone because many people just use morphs to make the female look male. Sort of like Toon Generations 1 & 2 released the same day.
I like nonesuch00s idea.
Its true that men's content doesn't sell well. Especially certain things.
My perception though, is that some men’s content particularly clothing and figures needs more attention to detail.
Exactly, men's content really needs to be contructed well to look good . There are several male clothing for G8 male that I will not pickup unless there is a steep discount due to the fact that the promos show how bad it looks on the figure. I truly think for men's wear, the creator needs to know basic tailoring and know how fabrics hangs on a body.
If it’s a choice between your $10 and fifty people’s $10, my landlord demands I go with the fifty people.
It’s not Daz. It’s not the PA.
If you are going to be mad at anyone, be mad at the customer base. If you are going to change minds, change theirs.
Or learn to do it yourself, become a PA, and show all the other content creators they are wrong.
I agree with both sides of this argument. I completely understand the PA’s and DAZ’s decisions to focus on what makes money. If I was in their shoes, I’d do the exact same thing. At the same time, the imbalance of female to male characters, clothing, hair, etc. is quite stark. I wish DAZ would use some of its prime power to fill in a few gaps, but even there we tend to see more female choices. I would guess that a lot of prime products aren’t huge money makers for DAZ (I could be wrong), so why not balance a few things that way? For example, today’s prime consisted of a bed, a jakuzzi deck, and three female-products. Nothing specifically for men at all.
J
They do already. The sales from the female and scenery products pay for the male products that are bought. There won't be an equal distribution because the demand for female content is MUCH higher. Also the male figure releases are much higher than before as well. Rather than having a single male every few months, you're seeing them at least every other month since genesis 3, but there's always a female release to pay for the disparity because a male only month won't make the necessary sales for it to carry it though. That's just how it is until customers decide to purchase male products in the same ratio as female products, no one can simply afford an equal ratio and certain things such as male anime (like Hiro... RIP) never sold like a AIKO has. But as Oso3D infers, you have to convince more customers, not DAZ or the PAs, they're doing what they can only afford to do.
I mean so far since genesis 8 you have Michael, Lucas, Darius and Owen. Genesis 2 by this time (also Genesis 3) you would have only had Michael and Gianni (actually not because M6 was released in November) and didn't have an ethnic character offered. And the only character really capable of carrying a month is Michael, and there was only about a 2 month gap between the male and female release rather than almost a 6 month gap.
Here, here. I've passed on male content that I did not feel was up to the standard it should be. Just because it "doesn't sell as well" should not be an excuse to short-shrift the people who would normally buy it.
Sorry, Wil, no. This argument might have held some water at one time. But see the two other comments like mine about the decline in quality of male products. They are not up to par. That being said, their are of course the exceptions to the rule (malemedia always turns out a quality product, as do others). I've never passed on a male bundle until some of the offerings for Genesis 8.
Every time I see someone post that male content is the same quality as female content, I remember how many male characters have an extra anus, and I laugh, and I laugh.
Thing is he's not talking about quality, he's saying if there is a choice between male and female products when it's time to pay bills.. the female is always going to win because it sells more. I've said that that we have to work to support those that are trying to make make content and nurture them to continue... however there's been far too many threads that throw those vendors to the wolves rather then nurture them.. so at that point instead of asking for new content, just work with what you have. At this point you simply can't have it both ways; we're in no position of strength to demand anything. Either nurture or work with what you have.
Note that I'm sure someone will say I don't have to pay for what I don't want.. yeah, but there's a saying that beggars can't be choosers. That's where we that consume male content are. Either we work to get them up to the point they're making the quality content or we just either convert what we already have or make our own content.
Well i've enough content really, male & female, unless DAZ does something really astounding. I will still buy Girl 8 / Guy 8 and Mei Lin 8 / Lee 8 and a hand full of PC+ female clothing and my PC+ coupons every month but the the dForce clothing it seems to me is costing more money than the older clothing. Well OK if Morpheus 8 comes out I won't pass that up either but I think having seen and bought many DAZ products over the past two years my spending on the 8 cycles is mostly complete having seen what's released in the 8 cyce so far.
It's a DAZ fault, a Lucas or a Owen are interchengeable, but a Morpheus 8, a Sakura male or Guy 8 doesn't have a replacement on other bundles. DAZ should pay the best PA to expand market and customer satisfaction with parity on new unique styles. You can't ask PA to risk themselves, DAZ can, and pay the best in advance to atract good PAs. It's the only way.
Again, if the models you want don't sell, the money isn't there for a counterpart. Also they have experience over the years to know that a counterpart wouldn't recoup the investments. Some things they can afford to make, some they can't. Companies that lose money all the time go out of business, not sure where how some are missing that point.
Right, you make what seems like a valid point. All reasonable like, too. Except what I have seen is backwards movement. I'm not throwing anyone to the wolves, I am being honest when I say that. Particularly in the bundles I have seen of late, the work on display is by artists who have been around the block (doing clothes for Genesis 2 Male) and they haven't improved IMO and I have been paying attention, I did reviews for over a year of ongoing releases.
I'm trying to be careful here because my sentiments have been frowned upon and frankly I think they ought to be seen because I am not alone. There are artists on sale here and elsewhere who produce products that put the bundled products in really, really bad light. I get it... if they prefer not to sell their products to DAZ for inclusion in a bundle or for Platinum, they don't have to. But DAZ ought to be looking at what they are getting (and then selling to us) compared to what others are producing and recognize and do something about the gap in quality and performance.
Again, if the methods being employed to not nurture artists starting out end up in the situation now, who gets the blame? Those PAs simply go back to what they know and the disparity widens, and these threads continue. I just threw the idea out there, because if I need to i have the tools to do what i want without the intention of putting them on the market and sparing myself the headache. It is what it is at the end of the day and people have to work for positive solutions not negative ones, especially when a group is affected by the disparity.
After reading some of the PA input in this thread, here is the way I see it: Certain content creators are basically telling me that my money is no good, so I won't burden them with it. I hear them loud and clear.
I get that PAs need to make money, and I don't blame them for following the more certain bet of making products for female characters. But, I do think it would be in DAZ's interest to subsidize more quality work for men--that is, commission PAs for Daz Originals for male characters.
I'm sure DAZ is still getting new users all the time, and some level of parity should attract more customers and expand the customer base, so it's a forward-looking bet. As an example, it's getting easier and easier to create games, many game characters are still men, and having more products for male characters may attract more customers who want to make games.
And while we may never see as much content for men as we do for women, an increase of more quality products for men, combined with a smaller pool of products, may result in more sales for these products, which may in turn encourage PAs to also make more products for men in general.
But I do think DAZ will have to take the initiative here, not the PAs.
I think Daz3D had it right with Genesis 1. It was literally an all in one figure. Addons could be interchanged like never before. I'm sure there's some convoluted excuse that boils down to "because, money!" as for why they went back to dual figures with G2 and beyond.
Actually, there were many PAs who didn't like the decision that Daz made in making Genesis 2 back into two genders. Personally, I liked having it all in one figure, that way it was easier for me to make both male and female products.
But the real reason why Daz went back to two genders was because the company listened to its customers. The customers complained and through market research and opinion polls and a few other tools, Daz decided to give the majority of the customer base what it wanted - two separate genders for the Genesis figure. Money had nothing to do with it, at least as far as I have been told.