Carrara Challenge 3: PARADISE LOST AND FOUND. Work In Progress (WIP) thread.

Philemo_Carrara

And this is the threshold effect I've disregarded. It's not that bad and look like old cartoons, but it's not the effect I was looking for.

Gareth

@head wax, I just seen your finished image, incredible! :)

Gareth

@FractalDimensia, That ocean look absolutely gorgeous, and i really like the dolphins and seagulls. :)

Gareth

@diomede64, I really like your "Two tickets to paradise" image, really nice modeling, especially that keyboard. :)

Antara

Jonstark said:

Antara said:

This entry was my attempt to push Carrara into Vue territory. Let me know what you think: am I at all succeeding here?

I think it's fantastic, comes together beautifully. It took me a second to realize there was water from a stream though, and while the volumetric sunrays lend a fantastic effect, it also tends to blur things a bit (editing to add; I like the way the background is blurred, almost misty, some of the stuff in the foreground I like the details that are shown on the original render would love to see if there's some way to bring that detail out). Is that Silver's Fawne?

I think you're pushing close to Vue territory for sure. I very much like it :)

Thank you! I've been trying to do something about that water. Please let me know whether it's better, or am I overkilling it?

I actually like the blur. It creates a sense of space and distance, which I wanted to emphasize here. So that was sort of a feature :)... I am actually applying all sorts of blurs here, not just the rays. I found the details to be too distracting from the composition. Overkill too?

The character is based on Silver's Fawne. For some reason the morph refused to apply, so I had to force it there by exporting and reloading the morph as a morph target. Then I changed the textures a bit (I didn't like the detailed make-up around the eyes and wanted a more natural sooth skin-like colouration). Then I mixed the limb textured with Surreality's Warrior Maiden Ashe by applying my own mixer maps: to make the hands and arms darker. And changed the nails completely: they were too manicured looking in the original textures.
In addition this shader is based on my own mixture of Reby Sky and Elite Lana, which are working underneath the diffuse textures to provide Highlight, Shininess, and Glow maps. (Glow is used to fake SSS, so I am actually using Reby's SSS as one of the components for the glow.)

Here are 2 versions with more sparkles on the water, one with less blur than the other... (the sparkles are the same).

Antara

FractalDimensia said:

I am not that familiar with Vue, so can't comment on that, but I really like what you have so far! It reminds me of something from "Midsummer Night's Dream." I think you're on to something here!

FD

Thank you! You are right, "Midsummer Night's Dream" is indeed there somehow. Maybe I can work it into the title... Still drawing a blank at the title, though. :)

Well, I've never used Vue at all, I just kept looking at image Vue produces and started to think what I can do in Carrara to create something similar. That's how this image started :).

Antara

Philemo said:

Hi to all,

I'm afraid I've spent too much time playing with my brand new Carrara 8.5 :-) and left this challenge behind.
Anyway, this is where I stand. Being away this week-end, I have till tomorow to finish my submission. I'm not sure It'll meet the quality I would wish, but it'll have to do.

I've replaced threshold in post with a level filter and I feel it's closer to where I want to go.

The plants and figures look amazing. Interesting colouration effect in the plants. (I still like the threshold version, though - it seems closer in style to engravings)
Did you try the bump on terrain and rocks? I tried it briefly with a simple high-contrast cellular procedural and very high highlight (~300%) on a primitive and it seemed to work. You can also control the intensity and amount of shadow by amount of bump.

I hope you get to finish it! It looks very cool.

FractalDimensia

Gareth Davies said:

@FractalDimensia, That ocean look absolutely gorgeous, and i really like the dolphins and seagulls. :)

Thanks, Gareth.

Since a few people asked for more details about how I created the ocean, I posted a new thread describing the process I go through to get this. Anyone interested will also find a link to a CAR file they can download containing an ocean object they can use.

Thread link:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/28506/

Special thanks to all those who posted feedback and comments.

evilproducer

Antara said:

Jonstark said:

Antara said:

This entry was my attempt to push Carrara into Vue territory. Let me know what you think: am I at all succeeding here?

I think it's fantastic, comes together beautifully. It took me a second to realize there was water from a stream though, and while the volumetric sunrays lend a fantastic effect, it also tends to blur things a bit (editing to add; I like the way the background is blurred, almost misty, some of the stuff in the foreground I like the details that are shown on the original render would love to see if there's some way to bring that detail out). Is that Silver's Fawne?

I think you're pushing close to Vue territory for sure. I very much like it :)

Thank you! I've been trying to do something about that water. Please let me know whether it's better, or am I overkilling it?

I actually like the blur. It creates a sense of space and distance, which I wanted to emphasize here. So that was sort of a feature :)... I am actually applying all sorts of blurs here, not just the rays. I found the details to be too distracting from the composition. Overkill too?

The character is based on Silver's Fawne. For some reason the morph refused to apply, so I had to force it there by exporting and reloading the morph as a morph target. Then I changed the textures a bit (I didn't like the detailed make-up around the eyes and wanted a more natural sooth skin-like colouration). Then I mixed the limb textured with Surreality's Warrior Maiden Ashe by applying my own mixer maps: to make the hands and arms darker. And changed the nails completely: they were too manicured looking in the original textures.
In addition this shader is based on my own mixture of Reby Sky and Elite Lana, which are working underneath the diffuse textures to provide Highlight, Shininess, and Glow maps. (Glow is used to fake SSS, so I am actually using Reby's SSS as one of the components for the glow.)

Here are 2 versions with more sparkles on the water, one with less blur than the other... (the sparkles are the same).

I like both versions. Maybe dialing the blur back a pixel or so would give the best of both worlds! I know another commented on the sunbeams effecting the image. Did you do the sun-beams in post, or are they Carrara's light cones?

BTW, the detail is amazing!

Headwax

hey thanks for the kind comments on my work
just a quickie be back later
put em in a tree museum

Headwax

Antara wrote

I actually like the blur. It creates a sense of space and distance, which I wanted to emphasize here. So that was sort of a feature smile... I am actually applying all sorts of blurs here, not just the rays. I found the details to be too distracting from the composition. Overkill too?

The character is based on Silver’s Fawne. For some reason the morph refused to apply, so I had to force it there by exporting and reloading the morph as a morph target. Then I changed the textures a bit (I didn’t like the detailed make-up around the eyes and wanted a more natural sooth skin-like colouration). Then I mixed the limb textured with Surreality’s Warrior Maiden Ashe by applying my own mixer maps: to make the hands and arms darker. And changed the nails completely: they were too manicured looking in the original textures.
In addition this shader is based on my own mixture of Reby Sky and Elite Lana, which are working underneath the diffuse textures to provide Highlight, Shininess, and Glow maps. (Glow is used to fake SSS, so I am actually using Reby’s SSS as one of the components for the glow.)

Here are 2 versions with more sparkles on the water, one with less blur than the other… (the sparkles are the same).

Fantastic! Literally :) Ahh I like the one with the blur the best too, It concentrates our attention even motre on the woodland sprite. Beautifully done, you've pulled off what might have been an unbalanced compostion with ease. Now I'm looking for a bird or tow flying through the trees. And butterflies in the shards of light :) And a sparkle in the wood sprites eyes? Maybe not ;)

Headwax

Philemo said:

And this is the threshold effect I've disregarded. It's not that bad and look like old cartoons, but it's not the effect I was looking for.

Great effect though. At first I thought it was snow. You can see how that graphic effect would work with a compostion using only a few dominant shapes.

Headwax

Gareth Davies said:

@head wax, I just seen your finished image, incredible! :)

thank you Gareth, for me I am enjoying the breath of fresh air in your work. It's a style that I would love to have in my tool box, but alas do not :)

Headwax

Jonstark said:

My god head wax, that is fan-freaking-tastic! What an incredible render, you are a true talent!

So many good renders in this contest, was just reviewing the final entry thread, man we have some seriously talented artists in this here forum :)

heh thank you I will now go and get my head off the ceiling :)

head wax, Great improvements to the image. And excellent entry! Will there be a second entry from you? You definitely had many very promising WIP’s. I’d love to see another one of them converted into an entry too. smile

thanks Antara, ! I am getting a bit of flack on the home front but I worked on the Tree Museum this morn. Just a matter of nicking away and pretending I am doing my tax...

Amazing detail, Andrew! It’s the kinda scene one could “peruse” for a while just trying to catch all the nuances. Especially like the added spiderwebs! FD Thank you sop much! Ahh what would a discarded teddy bear shop do without cobwebs I ask you /? :)

Dartanbeck

Wow! All of you... Wow!
Such talent. You are all really oozing with creativity... Wow!

Diomede

@diomede64, I really like your “Two tickets to paradise” image, really nice modeling, especially that keyboard.

Thanks. I find Carrara's modeling tools very intuitive, and I like that there are several different modeling types (vertex, spline, etc.). Plus, one can model in the assembly room and uvmap/paint directly on the mesh. I think C's modeling is overly criticized, given how well it can be integrated into everything else Carrara does. Having said that, I hope C9 upgrades the modelers.

I just perused the final entry thread. Wow! I don't know how I can omit anyone's entry. So, I've decided to be totally selfish. Just what have each of you done for me, eh? For example, in another thread, FD set a pretty high bar by explaining, step-by-step, how he created his ocean. Well, if you want my vote,....

Just kidding, I'll count the number of cows.

But seriously, thank you HeadWax for starting these monthly contests, and Antara for doing such a great job leading this month, and the participants (like FD, etc) for generously explaining what and how you do what you do. I hope that more people with my level of experience/skill choose to participate. I feel like a high school baseball player who gets a chance to attend a pro training camp. (For you Aussies/Brits, baseball is a sport :>)

P.S. Wendy, please, please, please, render one of your frames as an entry. You are such an inspiration.

Antara

As promised, the unedited render of my first entry. Time to post the final version :).

Headwax

Dartanbeck said:

Wow! All of you... Wow!
Such talent. You are all really oozing with creativity... Wow!

now Dart, we are still awaiting your WHIP err I mean wip :)

Headwax

diomede64 wrote

But seriously, thank you HeadWax for starting these monthly contests, and Antara for doing such a great job leading this month, and the participants (like FD, etc) for generously explaining what and how you do what you do. I hope that more people with my level of experience/skill choose to participate. I feel like a high school baseball player who gets a chance to attend a pro training camp. (For you Aussies/Brits, baseball is a sport :>)

P.S. Wendy, please, please, please, render one of your frames as an entry. You are such an inspiration.

It's a pleasure to see what people come up. I'm really enjoying seeing how people approach the subjects, both thematically and techniquely - for example your experiments with different rendering techniques and references to tradituional subject matter.

and yes Antara has done an amazing job! I hope she wins this one as well ;)

Wendy, don't be shy!

Headwax

Antara said:

As promised, the unedited render of my first entry. Time to post the final version :).

A lovely work - in the best sense of the word. :) The image gives a feeling of warmth and intimacy. It's almost as if the viewer themselves is intruding on the scene.

Antara

evilproducer said:

I like both versions. Maybe dialing the blur back a pixel or so would give the best of both worlds! I know another commented on the sunbeams effecting the image. Did you do the sun-beams in post, or are they Carrara's light cones?

BTW, the detail is amazing!

Thank you. The sun beams were done in post (I posted the background and foreground layers earlier, and those are the only things that came out of Carrara, the glow on the water, the sun beams and the blur was done in post), but I am using the Distance pass to control the appearance of the beams... and blur... and water glow... The Distance pass is the best thing since sliced bread! :) I don't know how people live without it :).

An extra note: I had to do some work on the Distance pass, though. I rendered the original background layer image with 4-pixel object and shadow accuracy (to save render time). And those are the things that show up in the passes. So I had to first blur the pass to get rid of bad edges. Also, each Distance pass has relative grey-scale gradation (a scene with one object close to camera and one very far will have different value=distance relationship than a scene with 2 objects close together). So when I was combining Distance passed from my 2 layers I had to first apply some curves to bring them to a more similar relative scale.

head wax said:

Fantastic! Literally :) Ahh I like the one with the blur the best too, It concentrates our attention even motre on the woodland sprite. Beautifully done, you've pulled off what might have been an unbalanced compostion with ease. Now I'm looking for a bird or tow flying through the trees. And butterflies in the shards of light :) And a sparkle in the wood sprites eyes? Maybe not ;)

Thank you! :)
I'll give you sparks in the eyes :) I actually forgot that I reduced opacity on my Specular layer when I was exporting these as jpgs, so the sparks were always meant to be there :). No birds, but I will look into butterflies, if I have time. (not likely)

But seriously, thank you HeadWax for starting these monthly contests, and Antara for doing such a great job leading this month, and the participants (like FD, etc) for generously explaining what and how you do what you do. I hope that more people with my level of experience/skill choose to participate. I feel like a high school baseball player who gets a chance to attend a pro training camp. (For you Aussies/Brits, baseball is a sport :>)

P.S. Wendy, please, please, please, render one of your frames as an entry. You are such an inspiration.

I am very happy that you are enjoying this challenge. Your work here has been an inspiration to me, so I am very selfishly happy about you joining too :). I think this is the most fun way to learn something - with like-minded people, doing something interesting together and helping each other. So I hope these challenges continue.

and yes Antara has done an amazing job! I hope she wins this one as well ;)

Um, no. Not happening. And even if the collection of excellent images in the entry thread do not convince you, I've got a rule to prove it! So, :-P
...You, however, are no longer safe this month... :)

cdordoni

Antara said:

The Distance pass is the best thing since sliced bread! :) I don't know how people live without it :).

An extra note: I had to do some work on the Distance pass, though. I rendered the original background layer image with 4-pixel object and shadow accuracy (to save render time). And those are the things that show up in the passes. So I had to first blur the pass to get rid of bad edges. Also, each Distance pass has relative grey-scale gradation (a scene with one object close to camera and one very far will have different value=distance relationship than a scene with 2 objects close together). So when I was combining Distance passed from my 2 layers I had to first apply some curves to bring them to a more similar relative scale.

The distance pass is very useful, except that it is limited to 8 bits (256 levels), which is partially responsible for gradation you indicate. Although 16 bit tiff is present as an export option, only 8 bits are saved. Daz is aware of this

What you can do to normalize the effect of changing distances (and therefore changing the greyscale values so they are not consistent) is construct a rig or use reference objects that encompasses the nearest and furthest objects you want to render. It could even be as simple as having one object at the closest distance and another at the furthest distance. As long as these two objects are consistently visible to the camera, your grey scale values will always be in sync no matter what objects changes in between.

It would be ideal if the rig or reference objects worked into to your scene so you did not have to remove them later in post work.

Something I have not tried yet is to find out how small the rig or objects can be and still limit the range. Maybe its possible that if they were small enough, they might be invisible in the rendered image and you would not have to get rid of them later.

cdordoni

Antara said:

Thank you! I've been trying to do something about that water. Please let me know whether it's better, or am I overkilling it?

All these versions have merits, but my preference is for the previous version without the sparklies on the water. Perhaps something in between would be better.

These are great renders, and I think you have really shown what Carrara can do. There's a cinematic quality here, and I think your scene would be stunning as an animation.

Headwax

cdordoni wrote

The distance pass is very useful, except that it is limited to 8 bits (256 levels), which is partially responsible for gradation you indicate. Although 16 bit tiff is present as an export option, only 8 bits are saved. Daz is aware of this

What you can do to normalize the effect of changing distances (and therefore changing the greyscale values so they are not consistent) is construct a rig or use reference objects that encompasses the nearest and furthest objects you want to render. It could even be as simple as having one object at the closest distance and another at the furthest distance. As long as these two objects are consistently visible to the camera, your grey scale values will always be in sync no matter what objects changes in between.

great idea thanks for sharing :0
and it's a good idea to leave infinite planes out of the scenario !

someone put me onto object index courtesy of one of these challenges - that's been a real plus as well

WendyLuvsCatz

ok, part one and two

HUH it is still rendering and it SAVED!!!!

SpyroRue

Oh she's a cereal fanatic Wendy haha! Love the drooling!! :snake:

Philemo_Carrara

Spyro said:

Oh she's a cereal fanatic Wendy haha! Love the drooling!! :snake:

Worse, she is a cereal killer

WendyLuvsCatz

posted in contest thread as insisted by some
(really only in for fun and support comp)
fantastic renders by everyone, love Antara's render and Headwax

SpyroRue

Philemo said:

Spyro said:

Oh she's a cereal fanatic Wendy haha! Love the drooling!! :snake:

Worse, she is a cereal killer

HAHA she might just kill me if I get too close to that bowel.

Hey cool wendy! Nice work :cheese: Hands looking much better since the last

Philemo_Carrara

I'm almost where I want to go.

I've improved on all the most visible flaws (rocks, wings).
Postwork is becoming more important and I will post all the details once I'm done with it.