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Carrara Challenge 3: PARADISE LOST AND FOUND. Work In Progress (WIP) thread.

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  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    edited September 2013

    Here are the pictures used to produce the render

    #1 : photorealistic render
    Render with a single light placed on the right the camera an pointed to the centre of the scene.
    Scene Ambient is set very high (65%) because I want less contrast from that picture
    All objects are shaded with the wire pattern in the color channel with lines going in one direction. Width or length varying to set a shade of grey. Distance from the camera must be taken into account to have consistent lines.

    Highlight is set high to provide white spots.

    #2 : non-photorealistic render
    with only the outline

    angel15O.png
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    angel15c.png
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    Post edited by Philemo_Carrara on
  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    edited September 2013

    #3 : Shadow pass
    #4 : ambient occlusion pass
    Ambient occlusion set with no interpolation, with a distance of 3 ft and with the plants hidden

    The post-work goes like that (from bottom layer to top)

    #1 with a threshold of 160
    #3 with a threshold of 1, mode darkening 100%
    #4 with a threshold of 108 mode darkening 100%
    #2 opacity 100%, alpha 100% on white

    Angel16_AmbientOcclusion.png
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    Angel15_Shadow.png
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    Post edited by Philemo_Carrara on
  • AntaraAntara Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    cdordoni said:
    The distance pass is very useful, except that it is limited to 8 bits (256 levels), which is partially responsible for gradation you indicate. Although 16 bit tiff is present as an export option, only 8 bits are saved. Daz is aware of this

    What you can do to normalize the effect of changing distances (and therefore changing the greyscale values so they are not consistent) is construct a rig or use reference objects that encompasses the nearest and furthest objects you want to render. It could even be as simple as having one object at the closest distance and another at the furthest distance. As long as these two objects are consistently visible to the camera, your grey scale values will always be in sync no matter what objects changes in between.

    It would be ideal if the rig or reference objects worked into to your scene so you did not have to remove them later in post work.

    Something I have not tried yet is to find out how small the rig or objects can be and still limit the range. Maybe its possible that if they were small enough, they might be invisible in the rendered image and you would not have to get rid of them later.

    That is an excellent technique! Thank you!
    This was my first experience compositing foreground and background layers together, so I only now discovered the distance pass issues with relative grading. And to be honest, I don't think I could pick the farthest object in my frame for the background - it's such a mess of branches and replicators! But I will definitely use your trick in the future. :) Please let us know the results if you test the smallest-possible-object trick.

    cdordoni said:
    Antara said:

    Thank you! I've been trying to do something about that water. Please let me know whether it's better, or am I overkilling it?

    All these versions have merits, but my preference is for the previous version without the sparklies on the water. Perhaps something in between would be better.

    These are great renders, and I think you have really shown what Carrara can do. There's a cinematic quality here, and I think your scene would be stunning as an animation.

    I've taken your advice for the final image. Thank you.

    However, I don't think my computer could handle an animation of something like this. 8 hours per frame plus another half an hour of compositing for each (after process optimization and possible automation)... Ouch... I don't have the resources for it.

    ok, part one and two

    HUH it is still rendering and it SAVED!!!!

    Wendy, that's a great image. Excellent lighting. And so funny. Love the expressions. Thank you so much for entering! The suspense was great and your entry did not disappoint. It's a great interpretation of the theme, too. I think all Carraraist can relate to your character's emotions here :).
    (On a housekeeping note: Please add the link to your WIP's here into your entry.)

    Philemo, I love your final entry! And thank you for the detailed sharing of the steps you took to get there. Really inventive and creative approach to the theme and style.

    head wax, you have a great collection of WIP renders here, all beautiful and interesting, some haunting. I am very curious which will be your second entry :).

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,037
    edited December 1969

    I did link both

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Antara said:
    cdordoni said:
    The distance pass is very useful, except that it is limited to 8 bits (256 levels), which is partially responsible for gradation you indicate. Although 16 bit tiff is present as an export option, only 8 bits are saved. Daz is aware of this

    What you can do to normalize the effect of changing distances (and therefore changing the greyscale values so they are not consistent) is construct a rig or use reference objects that encompasses the nearest and furthest objects you want to render. It could even be as simple as having one object at the closest distance and another at the furthest distance. As long as these two objects are consistently visible to the camera, your grey scale values will always be in sync no matter what objects changes in between.

    It would be ideal if the rig or reference objects worked into to your scene so you did not have to remove them later in post work.

    Something I have not tried yet is to find out how small the rig or objects can be and still limit the range. Maybe its possible that if they were small enough, they might be invisible in the rendered image and you would not have to get rid of them later.

    That is an excellent technique! Thank you!
    This was my first experience compositing foreground and background layers together, so I only now discovered the distance pass issues with relative grading. And to be honest, I don't think I could pick the farthest object in my frame for the background - it's such a mess of branches and replicators! But I will definitely use your trick in the future. :) Please let us know the results if you test the smallest-possible-object trick.

    cdordoni said:
    Antara said:

    Thank you! I've been trying to do something about that water. Please let me know whether it's better, or am I overkilling it?

    All these versions have merits, but my preference is for the previous version without the sparklies on the water. Perhaps something in between would be better.

    These are great renders, and I think you have really shown what Carrara can do. There's a cinematic quality here, and I think your scene would be stunning as an animation.

    I've taken your advice for the final image. Thank you.

    However, I don't think my computer could handle an animation of something like this. 8 hours per frame plus another half an hour of compositing for each (after process optimization and possible automation)... Ouch... I don't have the resources for it.

    ok, part one and two

    HUH it is still rendering and it SAVED!!!!

    Wendy, that's a great image. Excellent lighting. And so funny. Love the expressions. Thank you so much for entering! The suspense was great and your entry did not disappoint. It's a great interpretation of the theme, too. I think all Carraraist can relate to your character's emotions here :).
    (On a housekeeping note: Please add the link to your WIP's here into your entry.)

    Philemo, I love your final entry! And thank you for the detailed sharing of the steps you took to get there. Really inventive and creative approach to the theme and style.

    head wax, you have a great collection of WIP renders here, all beautiful and interesting, some haunting. I am very curious which will be your second entry :).

    Something else to consider with the depth pass, that someone tipped me off to in a thread about the benefits and limitations of the built in DOF and postworked DOF, is that if you use an infinite plane, the depth pass will not work. You'll just get solid silhouettes. I've tested this and it seems to be true.

  • AntaraAntara Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    So here are the final image notes:

    Added butterflies, reduced sparkles opacity. Blurred sun beams a bit.
    Added some light overlays to a foreground fern - it was too dark, blending with background and confusing.

    the base renders are shown in the WIP, along with my layer tree in Photoshop.
    The dotted lines indicate the transformations of the base renders, which are used in the final composite.

    WIP.jpg
    1824 x 696 - 422K
  • AntaraAntara Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    I did link both

    Found it, thank you! :)

  • AntaraAntara Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:

    Something else to consider with the depth pass, that someone tipped me off to in a thread about the benefits and limitations of the built in DOF and postworked DOF, is that if you use an infinite plane, the depth pass will not work. You'll just get solid silhouettes. I've tested this and it seems to be true.

    Thank you! This is very useful to know.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,964
    edited December 1969

    couple of variations on wip and final I think?

    scary.jpg
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    puteminatreemuseumwip.jpg
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    AndrewFinnieTreeMuseum.jpg
    2000 x 1044 - 2M
  • kakmankakman Posts: 225
    edited December 1969

    head wax said:
    couple of variations on wip and final I think?

    head wax,

    I really like the tree doctor as well. As always, another great render from a very talented artist.

  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 583
    edited December 1969

    head wax said:
    couple of variations on wip and final I think?

    I like the top image best. Since it does not say WIP, is that your final?

    The song lyrics projected on the taxi door are a nice touch.

  • waxfin_c9ea3eab69waxfin_c9ea3eab69 Posts: 57
    edited December 1969

    kakman said:
    head wax said:
    couple of variations on wip and final I think?

    head wax,

    I really like the tree doctor as well. As always, another great render from a very talented artist.

    thank you :):):)

  • waxfin_c9ea3eab69waxfin_c9ea3eab69 Posts: 57
    edited December 1969

    cdordoni said:
    head wax said:
    couple of variations on wip and final I think?

    I like the top image best. Since it does not say WIP, is that your final?

    The song lyrics projected on the taxi door are a nice touch.

    thanks :) ! ahh the top image is the final - :)

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    @Antara, both of your images look stunning, your "Paradise Found" image is jaw-dropping! :bug:

    @head wax, another great image, the details in both your images are insane!

  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 813
    edited September 2013

    Requisite post for 3 layers of the finished product in "Pair-A-Dice"

    Doc14.jpg
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    Doc13.jpg
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    Doc12.png
    1600 x 1200 - 3M
    Post edited by Sockratease on
  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 813
    edited December 1969

    Holy Cwap!

    Is that the time??

    Better hurry up with that other image!!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Hey Sock. ManStan (if you can read this), and everybody else! It's great to see such a wide variety of subjects and styles. I'm really super impressed by the creative uses of Carrara. It's given me ideas and techniques I would have never thought to try! Thanks so much to everybody!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Hey Sock. ManStan (if you can read this), and everybody else! It's great to see such a wide variety of subjects and styles. I'm really super impressed by the creative uses of Carrara. It's given me ideas and techniques I would have never thought to try! Thanks so much to everybody!
    Wow. Can we reply that from me as well... except with my weirder way of typing? I am very dismayed to say that I have been too far away from Carrara lately to contribute to this month's challenge.
    Good luck to all! And Thanks to All!!!
  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 813
    edited September 2013

    Dartanbeck said:
    evilproducer said:
    Hey Sock. ManStan (if you can read this), and everybody else! It's great to see such a wide variety of subjects and styles. I'm really super impressed by the creative uses of Carrara. It's given me ideas and techniques I would have never thought to try! Thanks so much to everybody!
    Wow. Can we reply that from me as well... except with my weirder way of typing? I am very dismayed to say that I have been too far away from Carrara lately to contribute to this month's challenge.
    Good luck to all! And Thanks to All!!!

    Sorry you couldn't make it - but glad you have enough of a life to miss this stuff once in a while!

    Here; have the fractal used in the backdrop of my image while I'm waiting for it to render (I rotated the fractal 180 Degrees for the BG)

    r2neg.jpg
    1920 x 1440 - 969K
    Post edited by Sockratease on
  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 813
    edited September 2013

    And once again, my 3D Aura just looks better if I restrict it to the outside of the object, so once again - layers of the final image :

    And since I like stories so much... Here's how this image fits the theme of the contest:

    Story:
    Special Operative Bessy of The InterDimensional House of Pancakes always enjoyed returning to The Momma Ship and reporting her latest observations of The Farm to her Supreme Leader - The Grand High Such-And-Such - despite the fact that he was a floating head due to having lost his entire body during a freak accident involving auto-erotic asphyxiation. But mostly because he has so many Cool Toys cluttering his office.

    "This Must Be Paradise," she thought to herself and aspired to one day have an office just like this one.

    office1.png
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    office.png
    1600 x 1200 - 3M
    Post edited by Sockratease on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,326
    edited December 1969

    Wow. I really like all of this crazy business going on. That earlier fractal image is really cool!
    Funny, though. Bessie happens to be my favorite part of the whole conglomeration! The expression you've caught through the back of the head... just awesome!

  • FractalDimensiaFractalDimensia Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Just took a tour through the posted entries. WOW!! The works are getting better each month! This has been a REALLY fun competition! I'm learning a great deal doing this! :)

    Antara, I have a suggestion for the voting (if it is not too late).

    To help "wave the flag" and remind everyone that voting is now open, you should start a new thread, with voting rules, and links to both the entries and WIP threads (as opposed to posting votes in the submission thread).

    Anyway, just a thought....

    Good luck to all those who entered!
    FD

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    FractalDimensia said:
    Just took a tour through the posted entries. WOW!! The works are getting better each month! This has been a REALLY fun competition! I'm learning a great deal doing this! :)

    Antara, I have a suggestion for the voting (if it is not too late).

    To help "wave the flag" and remind everyone that voting is now open, you should start a new thread, with voting rules, and links to both the entries and WIP threads (as opposed to posting votes in the submission thread).

    Anyway, just a thought....

    Good luck to all those who entered!
    FD

    Maybe even throw it out in The Commons where it will get a few seconds of visibility! Just so other people can see what Carrara can do.

  • AntaraAntara Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    FractalDimensia said:
    Just took a tour through the posted entries. WOW!! The works are getting better each month! This has been a REALLY fun competition! I'm learning a great deal doing this! :)

    Antara, I have a suggestion for the voting (if it is not too late).

    To help "wave the flag" and remind everyone that voting is now open, you should start a new thread, with voting rules, and links to both the entries and WIP threads (as opposed to posting votes in the submission thread).

    Anyway, just a thought....

    Good luck to all those who entered!
    FD

    Since the Entry thread is clean (no comments between entries) and just 2 pages long, I decided to keep that same thread for voting as well. This way, people who plan to vote will get to see the entries right away without needing to click on a link and go to another thread.

    I hope this will not be too inconvenient or confusing.

    Good luck to all who entered, and good luck to all who will vote! I am having a very hard time a narrowing down my choices...

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Antara said:
    FractalDimensia said:
    Just took a tour through the posted entries. WOW!! The works are getting better each month! This has been a REALLY fun competition! I'm learning a great deal doing this! :)

    Antara, I have a suggestion for the voting (if it is not too late).

    To help "wave the flag" and remind everyone that voting is now open, you should start a new thread, with voting rules, and links to both the entries and WIP threads (as opposed to posting votes in the submission thread).

    Anyway, just a thought....

    Good luck to all those who entered!
    FD

    Since the Entry thread is clean (no comments between entries) and just 2 pages long, I decided to keep that same thread for voting as well. This way, people who plan to vote will get to see the entries right away without needing to click on a link and go to another thread.

    I hope this will not be too inconvenient or confusing.

    Good luck to all who entered, and good luck to all who will vote! I am having a very hard time a narrowing down my choices...
    I was hoping you'd do it that way.

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,964
    edited December 1969

    Sockratease said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    evilproducer said:
    Hey Sock. ManStan (if you can read this), and everybody else! It's great to see such a wide variety of subjects and styles. I'm really super impressed by the creative uses of Carrara. It's given me ideas and techniques I would have never thought to try! Thanks so much to everybody!
    Wow. Can we reply that from me as well... except with my weirder way of typing? I am very dismayed to say that I have been too far away from Carrara lately to contribute to this month's challenge.
    Good luck to all! And Thanks to All!!!

    Sorry you couldn't make it - but glad you have enough of a life to miss this stuff once in a while!

    Here; have the fractal used in the backdrop of my image while I'm waiting for it to render (I rotated the fractal 180 Degrees for the BG)

    wonderful image Socratease :)

    Antara, thank you so much for doing such a brilliant job on the challenge :)

  • AntaraAntara Posts: 444
    edited December 1969

    Sockratease, your second entry surprised me. You've created a very interesting funky world there. Great crystal shaders. And very interesting use of colour all around!

    To All:
    Wonderful entries everyone! Thank you all for participating. :)

    We are missing a few very promising WIP's in the final Entry thread, and it makes me sad, I was looking forward to seeing them finished.

    But with the entries which did make it into the final stage, the choice is difficult enough. I knew I couldn't get away with just 2-image choosing like last month, so I made it possible to choose 3, but now I am thinking that wasn't enough... It will take me a while to make my own choices. I keep going back and forth and so far there is no way to settle down on just 3.... :(

    Also, I want to let everyone know that thanks to our awesome Moderator Chohole, we have a ghost thread in The Commons, which means that whenever someone comments in the voting thread, our thread goes to the top both in the Carrara Discussion forum AND in The Commons too! :) Please keep voting and hopefully more people in the general community will see the challenge voting thread and will join us.

  • SileneUKSileneUK Posts: 1,970
    edited December 1969

    Antara, Am having a lot of issues with pro 8'5 and fell behind. You are amazing host and got so many entrants that I am going to be dizzy from trying to choose who to vote for.

    :) SileneUK

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    I'll have to postpone my decision until my head is in a better place. My wife and I, had to euthanize Poe, our beloved cat. That and I had a set-back in trying to get a better job today as well. Kind of a double whammy. Triple whammy if you consider it's also a Monday.

  • FractalDimensiaFractalDimensia Posts: 0
    edited September 2013

    @Jonstark, your summary and description of why and how you chose the entries you did was not only exquisite, but made me reconsider my choices! Clearly, you put a great deal of thought into your votes! (And I don't say that because you selected mine. ;) )

    Seriously, I was very impressed with your detailed analysis and making your thinking explicit.

    That leaves only one question....

    When are you going to post an entry or two??? ;)

    FD

    Post edited by FractalDimensia on
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