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I am fine awesomefb thanks for asking. Got your PM and will reply when I get back from town (shopping).
The tutorials are coming on fine thanks. Sort of stepped back a bit, reorganised myself and now have a plan what needs to be done first, second and so on. Give that many newcomers struggle at Installing DS and DIM I am halfway through that major tutorial. After that Render Settings as I already have a few UI ones done.
Thanks for the comments dude.
Laticis's image http://laticis.deviantart.com/art/LI-Render-Robot-Spider-471040167 spurred me on to do some tests with Area (mesh) lighting in different programs
.
The problem with Daz Studio Area lighting having no proper Specular channel makes the comparisons between different render engines difficult. For those watching this thread will remember the first image below done with dz point, dz spot and UE2 lighting which gives very good specular making rendering Metal surfaces so much easier. I had a hard time getting a good looking metal in DS as shown below with just using Area Lights and UE2 using IDL (Indirect Lighting).
Anyway the challenge I gave myself was 3 hours for each image, setting up the scene and materials in Daz Studio (3Delight), Luxus (Luxrender Engine) and Blender (Cycles Render Engine) all using Area Lighting, the same area lighting. The Blender one used Casual's DS - Blender Script http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/2877/
I did have a hard time getting the bump strength right in Lux due to the time it takes to give good visual feedback so that took more than 3 hours.
Give it a week of learning more about Blender Cycles and the node system I came up with this.
The first image is straight out of Blender with no compositing inside Blender itself like the Glow around the lights in the background and on the yellow/orange light of the Spider.
The last image has the compositing added and a tiny amount of Postwork in PS to eliminate some yellow/orange glow overspill which I couldn't get right in Blender. Then I put the final image through Perfect Effect 8 using the HDRI Subtle filter to make it pop more.
These I used just the mesh as lights. The one Stonemason made for the Deck C product. No other lighting was used.
Those last two renders from Blender are really amazing! :ohh: The first three images are even so very beautiful. :)
Just one question because I´m experimenting with Luxus. Is the LuxRender only with Lux Metal Materials applied?
Or is there a Geometry Shell involved?
Okay, it became two questions. :lol:
Thanks
I used Shinymetal Reflection col 89 Grey, Spec 116 Grey and Roughness 0.040 and add my own homemade bump at 0.0008
In full size the Luxus Render is stunning too. :)
Interesting to know the settings. Thanks for the info.
my pleasure. I much prefer the Blender one, 5 hours..nice and I can have direct visual feedback when setting up the scene, like Octane, with Blender. Can't do that with Lux. ;)
All fabulous renders Pete, thanx for sharing differences, Blender certainly illustrates surfaces best, I can see the glitter in metal, very fine detail. Once I get real comfortable/confident with DS, I'll regenerate brain cells, try learning Blender, Lol !!!! I have made alot of accidental discoveries while using DS, thinkin oh wow didn't know I could do that, rofl !
I set up model with same lighting, different textures, renders all different, so texture quality does make a major difference. I'm still a surface tab fanatic, all my renders so far has been done using 1 advanced ambient light, rest of scene I tweaked in surfaces tab. You were certainly correct, no lighting setup can be the same for any scene, noticed when I make parameter changes to lights, entire scene changes, specially using UE2 and Advanced distant. In the past I used to make large adjustments, now + or - 2 per step, I render constantly, viewing differences in adjustments. Taking my time, step by step through your tutorials.
Thanx for sharing all your knowledge/experience Pete, lookin forward to next tutorial/renders.
Oh now they aren't...the DS one is crap IMHO. :P
Yeah I am liking Blender a lot these days but DS will always be my first love.
I am glad you have seen the light...well Surfaces and Light really. I keep saying to people Surfaces, Light and Composition make a whole. Neglect one and the others suffer.
Oh now they aren't...the DS one is crap IMHO. :P
Don´t be so harsh to your self. Of course compared to the Lux and Blender version it lacks of definition, but it is still a good one.
LOL what I mean is I can get a better result out of DS with using different lights.
... thats a statement I can live with. :-)
... thats a statement I can live with. :-)yeah that is why I posted that first pic I did a while ago to show what I got with different lights in DS. So my advice it when doing metal in DS don't use Area Lighting. Good for soft lit portraits et though..
Rendered in Blender Cycles in 5 hours at this size, 5000 samples full GI. I don't know if it needed 5000 samples. I just set it to that a went to bed.
Products all for the DAZ3D Store
Spy Car V12 by Dreamscape-Creations
Disconsolation by DAZ 3D and Jack Tomalin
HDR ProSets Yosemite Pack Two by DAZ 3D and DimensionTheory
I must add that the Car was a real surprise to me, the only one in my library that had a double sided mesh for the windows which is paramount when using unbiased render engines, Lux, Octane and Cycles etc. I did have to break down the material zones more but not an issue in either Daz Studio or Blender. I also had to replace the Signal (Indicator) lens as it had burnt in highlights. Obviously the number plate got changed to. ;)
I also made a Normal map for the deck using Insane Bump script for GIMP...worked out nicely IMHO
NO Postwork on this one, straight out of Blender.
I found a really cool Script for anyone using Blender and HDRI's with a Sun light. This is a very cool script to line up the sun with the HDRI http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/3D_interaction/Sun_Position I used it for this image and it works very well IMHO
When I started to look at the image above I really didn't like the dark shadows both underneath the car and on the decking so I re-rendered in this time turning on AO. It seems Cycles does AO in two ways, automatically or user defined. I switched on user defined and got this which is more realistic IMHO.
You're getting some beautiful results from the Cycles engine. Thanks for the links to resources...this is something I've been planning to start experimenting with too.
Thanks Scott I am having a lot of fun with it. It is hard to get back in DS at the moment. I will however after a couple more renders I will be returning to DS to further my knowledge
I was wrong about AO in Blender, leave Cycles to do it automatically and setup the materials properly giving a seemingly Diffuse surface some low glossy settings. That will make shadows more realistic. My finding showed me even the underneath of the car had no glossy even on low, it was pure diffuse which caused less light bounce. Also the decking needed adjusting, lower the diffuse colour, increasing the diffuse roughness and increasing the glossy colour to compensate.
Wow Pete ! Gorgeous render ! Luv the reflection, can see the metallic in the paint. Did some basic modeling/render on Blender last night, I'll stick to DS for now, Lol !!!! DS interface much more simplistic :) Now the cool thing is, think I can create models using Autocad, export to Blender. Will see how that goes in the future. Alright bud, continue to fascinate with your imagination.
Thanks AJ
I need to look in to making the metallic bits more metallic as when I change the light position they become very dark and non metallic. :) Yeah I could just download one of numerous car paint shaders that have flakes but that would defeat the purpose of learning. :)
reworked the shaders, camera position, added DOF and repositioned the lighting...all in all I am happy with the outcome.. No Postwork as IMHO I didn't think it needed any. But I am open to suggestions.
The background and the car both look great but my eyes say the two don't quite go together.
The best I can come up with at this time is that to me the cars shadow looks darker than the ones back under the trees. I'm not sure if that's actually what's bugging me or not. If I can come up with a better answer I'll post it.
ETA: I'm looking at this with the eyes of someone who grew up hiking, camping, and backpacking but does not have much artistic experience or training.
ETA2: After studying the larger image for a bit it seems to me that the car is lit from stage right front while the trees in the background are lit from stage left front. Look at the windshield and the trees behind it. The bright side of the tree trunks is stage left but the bright side of the windshield is stage right but there is no shadow falling on the bridge that would shade the car.
The shadow under the back of the car is fine, the front seams all wrong. I still like it.
Reflections are a possibility, true.
It is quite good overall. Far better than anything I'm up to doing.
First off thanks for the feedback.
Both images have had the sun lined up perfectly to the HDRI with a nice Blender Script so it is probably more down to Fresnel and reflections. As for the shadow under the care yes I agree it doesn't look right. I think I should have added a fill light to lighten up things a little more.
Hi Pete, Wow ! Render is a beauty ! balanced lighting, colors are vibrant, relections very detailed, wonderful masterpiece. Great job buddy ! I've been working on Roland car render in Lux, getting materials correct is damaging my brain, Lol !!!! Either to shiny or to dark no balance.
Only issue I see is, you need to change the plates to awesomefb, Lol !!
That makes sense. :)
I think the car is one of the best renders of a vehicle I've seen. Very good work overall.
no AJ it's mine, get your own. The trick with getting the reflections right is Fresnel, simply put the reflections get sharper and stronger as you move away from the direct line of sight. In the real world this is controlled by IOR (index of refraction) but with real world the car body is made of metal, a number of different coloured layers each with their own IOR then a lacquer again with a different IOR. In a CGI sense, well with my render I set the Fresnel up with a Facing node and not IOR controlled. I have no idea how it is done in Lux with the shaders we have at our disposal.
Also another thing to take into consideration is how the mesh is made as in for example to Widow glass. I DS it only needs to be a single skin mesh. In lux, Octane and Blender Cycles the mesh needs a thickness for the glass to work right.
You know, y'all have thinking of another light property with surfaces. reflecting vs refraction telescopes. Glass bends colors differently (prism effect) mirrors don't. Your trying to put a mirror behind a refracting layer of sorts, car paint and gloss coating.
I want a piece of simple glass. a window of sorts, preferable with the simplest of surface shaders. Is is possible to do that with a simple daz3d studio primitive, without replacing the default primitive shader? Just thinking out loud.
I still like that car Szark, it fits you. I'm more partial to a Beliskner (SG1) or a Nostromo (Alien), lol.
There was the conversation in the Luxus Discussion thread about adding a Geometry Shell to create reflections: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/18543/P930/#285524 (see also the following posts especially the image with the Troll.)
Well, my first tests to make realistic car reflections in Luxus failed. Need to do some more experiments. Maybe it helps one of you.
@Pete: The car looks really great! Very good job! :)