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if usining puppeteer is like using a crutch, my love of the aniblock importer (paid plugin admittedly) has made me totlaly Para and in a wheelchair!
. . . . and lovin it!
Daz rocks and so do aniblocks, Pupeteer and all their content!
(hint C9 I want that Daz studio interactive collision smoothing modifier too!)
If you're going to quote someone, understand what that person is saying and don't misquote them. I had been purchasing Carrara Long before Daz acquired it. I only mentioned in this one sentence that you quoted me on "when" I upgraded to version 8. Also I believe Eovia had already created version 6 then they handed the keys over to daz. I would know this because I had already upgraded to version 6 pro before Daz started selling it. I had to even show proof of my 6 pro purchase upgrade to daz in order to get the 8 pro upgrade. I was also a member of the daz community way back in 2003 as well when i started using Carrara and poser. Don't try to rewrite history you're unaware of.
Sorry. I missed the word "upgrade" in your first sentence and mistakenly understood you only started using Carrara in 2010. One little word changed the entire context.
I used Carrara since the MetaCreation days, and RayDream and Infini-D before that. So I've been around the block too. I remember pre-ordering Hexagon 2 from Eovia just before the acquisition. I don't remember Eovia pre-selling Carrara 6 and don't think they did, since it was released in 2007, over a year after the acquisition. So I'll stick with my claim that Carrara 6, 7, 8, and 8.5 were released by Daz.
Besides the date misunderstanding, I agree with you that the roadmap have changed drastically since Daz took over, and content support became the number 1 priority. The new feature list for 8.5 is a clear indication of that change.
Wendy, you are now one of my favorites!!!!! :)
Why everyone has not dropped everything and added that feature to every piece of software is beyond me. Pushing and pulling vertexes? Really? Fit rooms? Seriously? Add a modifier and BAM! Love it! Please add it in C9, and they will come.
If you're going to quote someone, understand what that person is saying and don't misquote them. I had been purchasing Carrara Long before Daz acquired it. I only mentioned in this one sentence that you quoted me on "when" I upgraded to version 8. Also I believe Eovia had already created version 6 then they handed the keys over to daz. I would know this because I had already upgraded to version 6 pro before Daz started selling it. I had to even show proof of my 6 pro purchase upgrade to daz in order to get the 8 pro upgrade. I was also a member of the daz community way back in 2003 as well when i started using Carrara and poser. Don't try to rewrite history you're unaware of.
Sorry. I missed the word "upgrade" in your first sentence and mistakenly understood you only started using Carrara in 2010. One little word changed the entire context.
I used Carrara since the MetaCreation days, and RayDream and Infini-D before that. So I've been around the block too. I remember pre-ordering Hexagon 2 from Eovia just before the acquisition. I don't remember Eovia pre-selling Carrara 6 and don't think they did, since it was released in 2007, over a year after the acquisition. So I'll stick with my claim that Carrara 6, 7, 8, and 8.5 were released by Daz.
Besides the date misunderstanding, I agree with you that the roadmap have changed drastically since Daz took over, and content support became the number 1 priority. The new feature list for 8.5 is a clear indication of that change.
When I bought C5, it was from DAZ. I don't think they were just a broker. I think they had just bought Carrara from Eovia and hadn't released C6 yet.
That's the problem. It's like cable TV. You have to buy the package that has 300 channels in order to get the one channel you're interested in watching. If you're not interested in the content that's included, you can't count it's value in the upgrade's value. Yet, if you want a version of Carrara that runs on a current Mac, you have no choice but buying the upgrade complete with Michael, Victoria, and all.
I'm showing a Carrara 5 Pro Companion Upgrade – Download Version in my serial numbers - that was when I upgraded from RayDream 5.5 ( which was the end of the line for that particular software)
Perhaps that's why .5 version upgrades worry me so much....
(not to mention Bryce 5.5)
I still have Raydream ;)
I haven't used it in a long time ofc, but I liked it better then Carrara.
Yes, it's all fine and good for people who don't have the Pro bundles - they're getting a HUGE amount of product along with Carrara for their $85 that would otherwise cost them well over $150 at normal PC pricing!! But what about people who already HAVE those bundles????
This has become standard Daz fare since the changes last year - buy "A" and you - WOW - get "B" for free or a discount.
Never mind if you don't WANT "B" or already have it. Same thing happened with V6- big buildup, you'll get WEEKS "FREE STUFF", most of which, it turned out, had already been free at one point or were old products people already had paid for.
It would be considerably more fair to all if this was offered at a substantial discount for those not wanting "B" OR there was an offer to pick an equivalent amount of other things you DO want.
Ummm....
Eovia would.... this and that...
Eovia is no longer here. Strategy failed.
Kendall
I just threw the 85$ out of the window. For years i used Carrara to render Daz content or to build my own models. Then i found Modo and Daz Studio and i lost interest in Carrara. But i still installed all the betas and looked at them. Using Genesis in Carrara was painfull in the betas. After reading the mail from Daz yesterday, i thought they made a big progress. I was wrong. It is still a mess. The time it takes to import one Genesis-Char is just ridiculous.In the same time i could pose my chars in Dazstudio, export it via .obj into Modo, adjust all the materials and start rendering with a really fast render engine. And i can't believe that Carrara has not really progressed on the rendering engine.The content library windows is also a bad joke. It looks like it is still stuck in the 1990s.
Sorry for being so negative, but this was the last version of Carrara for me. I don't want to compare Modo and Carrara, but with every release or update from Modo you can actually feel the improvements in speed and usabilty. Carrara needs not just new features added, it needs a new interface, a new render engine and atleast the basic features Dazstudio offers to work with Genesis or other figures (autosmoothing, not just autofit).
Huh?
It's not thrown away!
If unhappy, just get a refund. You have 30 days for that, and it's only been one day.
I know that this thread was started as a negative style of thread, but have you ever thought of the sort of feedback you are giving all the new people who might want to start experimenting with Carrara?
I've personally been sitting on the fence about 8.5. Having used the Beta now for some time, I have mixed feelings about the product. Interestingly, little has been said about MY concerns, so I'll throw my key points into the fray.
First, I have been having some real problems getting content to show up in the "Smart Content" library. Some stuff just doesn't appear; some stuff appears, but doesn't import when I drag it in (or I get an error message that some file can't be found); some stuff imports but it doesn't import properly. I have been too busy to run this problem down, and plan to start asking for help from DAZ next week, but just the fact that I am having difficulties makes me wonder if it ever will work correctly. (And, before anyone responds to my statement, I understand it is likely something I have done wrong; however, I completely uninstalled and re-installed all my content several times using both the installer (latest version) and manual installation, and still have problems.) My point is that (for me) buying, installing, and using content is NOT as simple and easy as DAZ has marketed it to be.
Second, which follows the first, is that NORMALLY that would not be a concern for other software products I have purchased. Most companies do a decent job at running down defects and providing updates (patches and minor fix releases) or at least having a site to go to with work-arounds. But not DAZ. And in case anyone thinks DAZ will provide releases for bug fixes, just remember that history is a indicator for predicting the future. Since I came onboard with V8.1 about 2 years ago, DAZ has been off working 8.5 (or more precisely, on Studio and content, which seems to be their REAL focus). I know of several things I can do in Carrara that will consistently cause my computer to lock up, or Carrara to crash. I've learned not to do them, which is not a feasible work-around. I've reported a few, so we'll see if I can reproduce them in 8.5. My point is that 8.5 is less glitchy than 8.1, but it's still not prime time. And DAZ will be setting their scopes in V9, leaving little energy to fix what defects they delivered in 8.5.
(And BTW, I've known a few software companies that delivered defects as a sales strategy. If customers want the bugs to go away, just pay to upgrade to the next version. Bottom line is some of what you are paying for in 8.5 is for DAZ to fix the bugs they wrote into the software in the first place. I find it amazing that only in software are customers so willing to do this.)
Third, and with respect to Dartanbeck (whose opinion I respect), I am not in the business of keeping DAZ solvent. If their business strategy (or lack thereof) is running Carrara into the ground, they should not expect me to rescue them. If DAZ needs money to further upgrade Carrara and keep it marketable against its competitors, they should ask for donations. This is NOT to say $85 is unreasonable for an update; only that I do so because I want the additional functionality (and I'd say "Quality" but I suspect we'll be trading one set of glitches for another), and not because I want to fund their V9 development.
And finally, for those who have read my previous complaints, I am surprised no one has said anything about the 8.5 documentation; or the lack thereof. Has anyone looked at the 8.5 Wiki? It must be April 1st, because it is a real joke. And their only focus is JUST on the new features/functionality. It is even worse than the emaciated V8 document they slid under the table at us with that version. At least that document was in PDF. Now, they just post a few lines and screenshots to their website and call it a "guide." I need a document I can look at offline, because I am not always connected to get answers (that is, if their wiki even answers my questions).
Brief plug: Dartanbeck's guide is very useful and does a lot of what I am paying DAZ to do. Thanks, D! You da man!
As before, if you expect to learn how to use Carrara (in a reasonable timeframe), your best source will continue to be other Carrara users. I know I will continue to post questions about how to do this or that on this discussion site, and hope someone will come to the rescue. Because when I pump $85 into DAZ's coffers, I know I won't hear another word from them....
FD
Not commenting on the rest of your post for the time being, but this part. I have always found that I learn far more from participating in a forum than from reading manuals, and that is not just with DAZ 3D software, because as many here already know I have been using Bryce since Metacreations days. My manuals for all versions are almost pristine, but I have spent hours on forums learning, and hope that I will do the same with Carrara now that I have taken the plunge and decided to branch out and try something else apart from Bryce.
Also note that Carrara 5 introduced Content support and it was the most broken feature of Carrara 5. Naturally it needed to be fixed and took until Carrara 7.2 before it worked as well as it does.
I will also note that both Carrara 6 and Carrara 7, added fixes to the content support as one feature out of at least a half dozen. Carrara 8 added nothing specific to content support and it was entirely other features.
This has become standard Daz fare since the changes last year - buy "A" and you - WOW - get "B" for free or a discount.
Much longer than that actually. Carrara 6 came with Victoria 4, standard or Pro bundle plus a stack of other Content items. Carrara 7 and Carrara 8 came with both V4 and M4 Standard or Pro. That does not diminish the value of the software itself, it just makes sure you have content to use one of the new features.
I had to take a little time to think about my response before making it.
When I saw the word "lazy" I thought to myself, does this person really understand being a professional artist?
I'm a professional. I have worked in broadcast, film and other segments of the entertainment indstry for decades.
People aren't "lazy." They are either amateurs looking to have fun and take a break from their lives (hobbiests)
OR
They are overworked, underpaid professionals needing to work with falling prices and rising costs.
Let me lay out some facts.
A few years ago I used to get nearly $1000 for a certain kind of commercial art piece. Now that same piece, I had a guy get massive sticker shock when I quoted him that price and he told me he had been paying $100 for the same piece.
10 times less!? There aren't 10 times as many customers. The work still takes as long to make.
We need technology to help us, because no one wants to pay for the craft and the time these things take to make.
This isn't just me going through this. I used to be on the board of our local arts council and artists are reporting that all the time and other councils we are in contact with are reporting the SAME thing!
Do I want artists to go out and learn how to do everything from the ground up? YES!
Is that remotely feasible for most of us? NO!
Many of us have to "run and gun." It's not laziness.
Further, I see a number of Daz/Carrara animations and the work is pretty good.
Could some of these works use a little polish? Sure.
But they do tell a story and that's the point.
If you have the time, I say go ahead, learn the software from the ground up and go for it.
Carara is a very powerful programme and most of us (me included) are hardly getting the full power of the programme going back to C6Pro, much less C8.5Pro.
I wish I had that much time. If you do, please try not to be too judgemental about your fellow artists.
I notice that Puppeteer has come up quite a bit in this thread. It has already been mentioned that Puppeteer was a new feature in Carrara 8.0, not 8.5. However, Carrara 8.5 comes with new animation features. The graph editor has received an overhaul, and it is now much easier to adjust amplitude, timing and scale for keys. Not only that but Carrara 8.5 has sampling, reducing, and smoothing algorithms for key frames.
Without getting into some of other issues you mentioned, I just want to correct some things you said:
It came with the M4 & V4 STARTER Bundles (which would be the Standard), which pretty much includes the already free at the time base, the morphs +, basic textures, the basics sportswear, and one hair item (the equivalent items for Genesis already come free with Daz Studio, so EVERY item in the V5 & M5 Pro bundles is way beyond what other Carrara versions had. No version of Carrara has ever come with a Pro Bundle before this.
The two starter bundles mentioned for V4 & M4 are currently $34.96 each at normal PC prices for a total of about $70. The current price at normal PC discount of the M5 & V5 Pro bundles together is about $175. That's a HUGE difference.
Don't get me wrong, This is a very wonderful thing and fabulous upgrade price for people who want to use Genesis (many don't) and are either are brand new, or chose not to purchase the Pro Bundles before. I think they should snap it up. The point is, as already stated - it would be nice to offer a much lower price option for those who already OWN the pro bundles, or to offer them their choice of $175 worth of Daz original content that they DON'T already own.
It came with the M4 & V4 STARTER Bundles (which would be the Standard), which pretty much includes the already free at the time base, the morphs +, basic textures, the basics sportswear, and one hair item (the equivalent items for Genesis already come free with Daz Studio, so EVERY item in the V5 & M5 Pro bundles is way beyond what other Carrara versions had. No version of Carrara has ever come with a Pro Bundle before this.
The two starter bundles mentioned for V4 & M4 are currently $34.96 each at normal PC prices for a total of about $70. The current price at normal PC discount of the M5 & V5 Pro bundles together is about $175. That's a HUGE difference.
Don't get me wrong, This is a very wonderful thing and fabulous upgrade price for people who want to use Genesis (many don't) and are either are brand new, or chose not to purchase the Pro Bundles before. I think they should snap it up. The point is, as already stated - it would be nice to offer a much lower price option for those who already OWN the pro bundles, or to offer them their choice of $175 worth of Daz original content that they DON'T already own. I stand Corrected, which looks something like this:
I am glad Daz acquired Carrara when it did. If it continued as a threat to Maya and Autodesk sucked it up - where would we be. Its been a tough decade in the industry due to world wide economics and many promising 3d companies did not survive and those that were lucky enough to get acquired did not fare well. Just look at where Calibre TruSpace is. Besides if you got your yearly U/Gs then you would be out 400 or more now at 99 per year. That is if it was not merged by a monopolistic fiend that charges 5000 per seat.
yeah it's great all right - the Messiah people took that approach:
"Learn from the other forum members." And where are all
those "dare to share" buyers now? Gone like a bat out of hell.
And the "regular forum members" are living in their own little
dream world.
Take a look at how dead it is, even though PMG messiah
just came out with a new version:
http://setuptab.com/
This is what happens when a company does not provide
an updated manual for years and years, and does not
communicate with or listen to their customers.
So you spent $1,345.50 on Modo and you're crying about $85?
Not commenting on the rest of your post for the time being, but this part. I have always found that I learn far more from participating in a forum than from reading manuals, and that is not just with DAZ 3D software, because as many here already know I have been using Bryce since Metacreations days. My manuals for all versions are almost pristine, but I have spent hours on forums learning, and hope that I will do the same with Carrara now that I have taken the plunge and decided to branch out and try something else apart from Bryce. OMG Chohole, let me pick my teeth up off the ground. This is bigger than if Hugh Hefner were to announce that he's gay. Enjoy your Carrara trip.
LOL!!! ok, that's scary - I think you need serious additional correction ;)
I cannot help but feel entitled to this up grade considering that the rest of the software world gives all the updates between whole number versions as an unwritten rule.
It all depends on how you look at it. From "your view" you see it as negative, because you work as a daz moderator and want to encourage sales and support daz.
From my angle, (a well versed long time user of Carrara) whom has seen many changes that have been unnecessary and comparing it to what it once was around the time of version 6, I see my reviews as "constructive criticism" and there's always room for growth and improvement.
You can't improve anywhere without there being honesty. I don't appreciate when anyone advertises certain "new" features for any product that already existed in the previous versions and make the product sound like it's taken big leaps, when in fact it hasn't, except for a few extra additions that will benefit mostly content users who are still in the beginning to novice stages of the hobby.
I would have liked to see more focus and attention placed in areas that really needed more makeover than adding unnecessary additions like Puppeteer.
Also note that Carrara 5 introduced Content support and it was the most broken feature of Carrara 5. Naturally it needed to be fixed and took until Carrara 7.2 before it worked as well as it does.
I will also note that both Carrara 6 and Carrara 7, added fixes to the content support as one feature out of at least a half dozen. Carrara 8 added nothing specific to content support and it was entirely other features. \
I bought Transposer for Carrara when I bought C5 and could never get it to work. To be honest, I never actually tried it until after the 30 day return policy, so I figured, what the hell. I avoided C6 because of some of the bugs and was still smarting over Transposer.
When C7 came out, I decided to buy it. Aside from Final Cut Pro, it was the nest software purchase I ever made. I love the content support. I haven't really had any issues with content in C7. It's been remarkably stable, aside from the occasional zombie mode bug in the Texture room (which can be avoided by taking my time and not jumping from room to room too quickly). It's a great piece of software and I can even use a render node on an Intel iMac running OS X 10.6.
It all depends on how you look at it. From "your view" you see it as negative, because you work as a daz moderator and want to encourage sales and support daz.
From my angle, (a well versed long time user of Carrara) whom has seen many changes that have been unnecessary and comparing it to what it once was around the time of version 6, I see my reviews as "constructive criticism" and there's always room for growth and improvement.
You can't improve anywhere without there being honesty. I don't appreciate when anyone advertises certain "new" features for any product that already existed in the previous versions and make the product sound like it's taken big leaps, when in fact it hasn't, except for a few extra additions that will benefit mostly content users who are still in the beginning to novice stages of the hobby.
I would have liked to see more focus and attention placed in areas that really needed more makeover than adding unnecessary additions like Puppeteer.
Once again Puppeteer wasn't changed, or touched in 8.5. The new animation features were for the graph editor, a tool that you will find in most professional 3D applications.