The Official aweSurface Test Track

1545557596066

Comments

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029

    Sven Dullah said:

    @wowie

    1. Apparently there is no way of overexposing diffuse color anymore, not even with tonemapping off. Not even by turning diffuse strength limits off. Must be something under the hood? Makes it hard if not impossible to get a sufficiant brightness on the surface to show up in eye reflections.

    2. Speaking of eye reflections, highlights from direct lightsources or surfaces using the environmental shader is no problem but reflections is a constant source of frustration. In theory it should be easy...transmission to 100% reflection strength to 100% adjust roughness. If I use an arealight plane with very high intensity to lighten the reflector to the max it barely shows up in the cornea. So the only way is dialing in 50% metalness. Or skip the reflector and use a direct light source.

    It produces some nice indirect bouncelight though:) Here is a test with no environment light, only bouncelight. Cornea with 50% metalness:

    1. The limits are there so to protect against overexposure. Either use Global Illumination Exposure on the surface or use a strong diffuse only light.

    2. For eyelights, use emitters (not specular reflectors). You can set it to specular only light if you want more control. You'll also want to keep the emitter size rather small and/or place it a distance. Dialing in metalness is not the way to go. Depending on the figure you'll using, you can either use the cornea and/or eye surface/reflection zones.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    wowie said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    @wowie

    1. Apparently there is no way of overexposing diffuse color anymore, not even with tonemapping off. Not even by turning diffuse strength limits off. Must be something under the hood? Makes it hard if not impossible to get a sufficiant brightness on the surface to show up in eye reflections.

    2. Speaking of eye reflections, highlights from direct lightsources or surfaces using the environmental shader is no problem but reflections is a constant source of frustration. In theory it should be easy...transmission to 100% reflection strength to 100% adjust roughness. If I use an arealight plane with very high intensity to lighten the reflector to the max it barely shows up in the cornea. So the only way is dialing in 50% metalness. Or skip the reflector and use a direct light source.

    It produces some nice indirect bouncelight though:) Here is a test with no environment light, only bouncelight. Cornea with 50% metalness:

    1. The limits are there so to protect against overexposure. Either use Global Illumination Exposure on the surface or use a strong diffuse only light.

    Hmm I'll try GI exposure...

    2. For eyelights, use emitters (not specular reflectors). You can set it to specular only light if you want more control. You'll also want to keep the emitter size rather small and/or place it a distance. Dialing in metalness is not the way to go. Depending on the figure you'll using, you can either use the cornea and/or eye surface/reflection zones.

    Well I tried to explain that I do get highlights without adding specular lights. Eyes do reflect things, not only lightsources. To get a reflection metalness is apparently the only way. Same goes for every transparent surface like windows, glasses and bottles. Opaque surfaces do reflect properly.

    Well dialing up specular exposure does help a bit.

    From your comment I understand that it is not possible to use the workflow the guy at art station used. The thing with that render was just the umbrella reflecting in the eyes, wasn't it?

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Here are a couple of renders where I used the umbrella I made (a flattened semisphere with a white diffusecolor) and a small arealight with very high intensity pointed at it. A keylight small arealight pointed down in front of him, a left side fill and a high intensity backlight, no environment sphere. Environment light with default camerabased exposure and 6500K, saturation, dodge and burn zeroed. There is a floor and two bounce planes invisible to the camera, no reflection/refraction, ambient occlusion/indirect light enabled.

    1. Untouched render

    image

    Postworked

    image

    2. Dropped the keylight and sidefill 0.5EV, to get more depth, also changed the backlight angle slightly.

    Untouched render

    image

    Postworked

    image

    3. Same as 2, only changed to Aces tonemapping.

    Untouched render

    image

    Postworked

    image

    So I have removed the environment sphere from the equation but still have exactly the same issues with contrast. Any further tips for getting a bit closer? Not sure but I don't think I can increase for example the backlight anymore, it's maxed out. I can drop the other lights, personally I like the postworked nr2 most. I really don't like the red tint I get out of the box. Maybe just play with temperature, as 6500K does not seem to give me a "neutral" overall temp. Or play with SS color? Skin saturation etc? I feel it's not the skinsettings, I get the same with environments.

    Or maybe just accept that this is how it works? smiley

    Cybrog1 awe.png
    800 x 914 - 828K
    Cybrog1pp awe.png
    800 x 914 - 1M
    Cybrog2 awe.png
    800 x 914 - 816K
    Cybrog2pp awe.png
    800 x 914 - 1M
    Cybrog3 awe.png
    800 x 914 - 819K
    Cybrog3pp awe.png
    800 x 914 - 1M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
     

    1. The limits are there so to protect against overexposure. Either use Global Illumination Exposure on the surface or use a strong diffuse only light.

    That did the trick, tks!

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Conversion test render 28 min.

    image

    Stratos Com Array awe.png
    1280 x 720 - 1M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029

    Sven Dullah said:

     

    1. The limits are there so to protect against overexposure. Either use Global Illumination Exposure on the surface or use a strong diffuse only light.

    That did the trick, tks!

    I also actually forgot this : You can also use the gamma slider in the Use Color Correct. The max value will always be limited to 1, but you can push the lower values higher.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    wowie said:

    Sven Dullah said:

     

    1. The limits are there so to protect against overexposure. Either use Global Illumination Exposure on the surface or use a strong diffuse only light.

    That did the trick, tks!

    I also actually forgot this : You can also use the gamma slider in the Use Color Correct. The max value will always be limited to 1, but you can push the lower values higher.

    Notedyes! It's not hard though to get the reflector evenly lit. I'm now trying to create a very bright spot in the center for eye reflections so need to use a reflective material and adjust spec. roughness and strength for the desired effect. Tks for triggering this idea, having loads of fun:)

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    @wowie

    Could it be that part of the contrast "issues" I'm having is due to the compression of the diffuse light intensity range being a tad too harsh? That would result in reduced contrast and too bright specular highlight especially in scenarios with a very high overall light intensity?

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Playing around a bit more with my umbrella set. Ditched the metalness on the cornea but lost the highlights even with specular exposure at 3. Ajusted the skin SS a bit. Scaled down the umbrella and increased global illumination exposure. Lowered the key- and left side fill exposure by 1 EV. The result was obviously lost detail on the face so not a good idea in this case. Added a curtain to catch some more bounce rays. Increased GI illumination on the floor and the two hidden bounce planes by 0.5.

    image

    With post adjustments

    image

    Cybrog4 awe.png
    800 x 914 - 944K
    Cybrog4pp awe.png
    800 x 914 - 1M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

     

    Lowered the umbrella intensity and increased keylight back to where it was. Ajusted umbrella light from a slightly warm to neutral white. Raised upper luminance by 0.3 and lower by 0.2. Increased camera based exposure from default ISO 800 to 1200. Getting closer...

    Raw render

    image

    Minor gamma adjustment in post

    image

    Environment light settings

    image

    Cybrog5 awe.png
    800 x 914 - 993K
    Cybrog5pp awe.png
    800 x 914 - 983K
    Cy env light settings.png
    457 x 875 - 97K
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Tweaked this set some more...manged to double the rendertimes:)

    image

    Stratos Com Array2 awe.png
    1280 x 720 - 1M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Took a bit of fiddling and 12x12 pixelsamples to get that DoF effect but I like it. Rendertime 7min, no post...

    image

    Approaching Sun awe.png
    1920 x 1080 - 1M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited January 2021

    I think this is quite ready:

    Without and with abberation.

    test1.jpg
    364 x 600 - 44K
    test2.jpg
    364 x 600 - 46K
    Post edited by wowie on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Hm I guess you mean chromatic abberation and not "deviation from truth and morality"?cheeky This will be added to transmission?

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    ...next up...WIP...first testrender, a few things to sort out

    image

    So I lowered the rimlight a little and increased the sidelight, about 0.5 EV, thought the highlights were a bit too blown out. Think I need to go back, like the first one better. Hmm...

    image

    Michelle studioshot 1 awe.png
    1280 x 800 - 1M
    Michelle studioshot 2pp awe.png
    1600 x 1000 - 2M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    So I rolled back the lightsettings, slightly longer F/Stop, and realized the hair needs SS so used aweSurface instead of AWE Hair. Will settle with this for the final render. Rendered with 2048 Irradiance samples, diffuse depth 3 and reflection depth 2, 12x12 pixelsamples, minimal gamma adjustment in post...

    image

    Michelle Studishot 3 awe.png
    1600 x 1000 - 2M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    image

    Dark Side awe.png
    1600 x 900 - 2M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited January 2021

    Scifi Rescue Module interior

    Had to ditch the normalmaps, still some issues at grazing angles.

    image

    Rescue Modul Interior awe.png
    1600 x 900 - 2M
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Sven, when you're adding that eyelight umbrella, do you aim it to cover the centre of the pupil on purpose or does it just happen? Those characters look as if they had cataract as a result...

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Mustakettu85 said:

    Sven, when you're adding that eyelight umbrella, do you aim it to cover the centre of the pupil on purpose or does it just happen? Those characters look as if they had cataract as a result...

    Hi, good to see you around:) Well the primary purpose is of course adding diffuse light, but yes I actually wanted that effect but haven't been able to quite nail it yet. Been thinking of using a mask to make it starshaped or whatever...

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited January 2021

    Sven Dullah said:

    Scifi Rescue Module interior

    Had to ditch the normalmaps, still some issues at grazing angles.

    Pretty good.

    As for normal mapping, I think i've figured it out. I'd probably going to have it more like bump mapping support now so you can have a combined or separate normal for each layer.

    A test shot.

    With and without.

    Combined with bump and displacement (using specular maps).

    with.jpg
    420 x 600 - 45K
    without.jpg
    420 x 600 - 45K
    withbumpdisplacement.jpg
    420 x 600 - 49K
    Post edited by wowie on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    wowie said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Scifi Rescue Module interior

    Had to ditch the normalmaps, still some issues at grazing angles.

     

    Pretty good.

    As for normal mapping, I think i've figured it out. I'd probably going to have it more like bump mapping support now so you can have a combined or separate normal for each layer.

    Tks wowie! Wow that sounds really nice;)

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Sven Dullah said:

    Hi, good to see you around:) Well the primary purpose is of course adding diffuse light, but yes I actually wanted that effect but haven't been able to quite nail it yet. Been thinking of using a mask to make it starshaped or whatever...

    The cataract effect?

    Look, I might be overreacting because I used to deal on a daily basis with a person blind in one eye due to a cataract, but, well... let's just say that I have never seen a photographer aim an eyelight in the centre of the pupil. It's usually at an angle, so that the pupil is still visible. I have even heard/read that having a black pupil in the image is a must because otherwise people are going to perceive the character as dim-witted. Can't find any sources right now, but I'm not making things up, it was from some pro advice aimed either at artists or photographers.

    PS The forums seem even more of a mess than they used to be.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited January 2021

    Sven Dullah said:

    Tks wowie! Wow that sounds really nice;)

    Yeah, it was a really confusing problem to solve. Seems like most people like to overdrive the maps, so I think I'm going to support that also.

    withbumpdisplacement.jpg
    420 x 600 - 49K
    Post edited by wowie on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    Mustakettu85 said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Hi, good to see you around:) Well the primary purpose is of course adding diffuse light, but yes I actually wanted that effect but haven't been able to quite nail it yet. Been thinking of using a mask to make it starshaped or whatever...

    The cataract effect?

    Look, I might be overreacting because I used to deal on a daily basis with a person blind in one eye due to a cataract, but, well... let's just say that I have never seen a photographer aim an eyelight in the centre of the pupil. It's usually at an angle, so that the pupil is still visible. I have even heard/read that having a black pupil in the image is a must because otherwise people are going to perceive the character as dim-witted. Can't find any sources right now, but I'm not making things up, it was from some pro advice aimed either at artists or photographers.

    Tks for the advice, much appreciated. You are right of course, you always are:)) But, you know, me not being very artistic, I dabble around and test a million things and eventually I get it close to what I see it in my head. Scaling up the reflector so its reflection is larger and not the relative size of the pupil might help:) But yeah on that girl portrait I should have moved it around a bit...

    PS The forums seem even more of a mess than they used to be.

    ...not to mention the store...it's pathetic really...

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621

    wowie said:

    Sven Dullah said:

    Tks wowie! Wow that sounds really nice;)

    Yeah, it was a really confusing problem to solve. Seems like most people like to overdrive the maps, so I think I'm going to support that also.

    Sweet!!

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029
    edited January 2021

    The next kit update will change most of the .dsa files with .duf versions. Nearly finished with the conversions, only the character stuff remains.

    This should help shave off waiting times when you first apply AWE Surface to props/figures/clothing. The difference should be very noticeable. So, save your material/shader presets in .duf.

    Off topic,

    @Sven, is it me or does the new DS builds feels sluggish/slow compared to older ones? I have both 4.7 and 4.14 Beta installed and 4.7 is both faster with animated poses/loops and re-loading scenes.

    Post edited by wowie on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
     

    Off topic,

    @Sven, is it me or does the new DS builds feels sluggish/slow compared to older ones? I have both 4.7 and 4.14 Beta installed and 4.7 is both faster with animated poses/loops and re-loading scenes.

    Well I'm still on 4.9. Have the 4.10 beta which I use only if I need to dForce something. I really see no point in updating unless DAZ suddenly upgrades 3DL to use OSL and USD etc. which will not happen. Filament would be nice but PC only, so...will probably get the newest beta if they port it over to the Mac. From the comments on the forums I've seen a lot of complaining about slow rendertimes crashes and whatnot. Not surprising considering they can't seem to manage to run even their own store properly.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Sven Dullah said:

    Tks for the advice, much appreciated. You are right of course, you always are:))

    You're welcome :) (I could only wish I were always right, though)

    I think I read something about an interesting eyelight trick for frontal shots - it's to have bright petal-like lightsources around the camera, and the character should be looking straight at the camera. Then their pupil remains dark but there's that starburst reflection over the iris. I hate frontal shots, so I never tried anything like that, but it's similar to gemstone photography trick of having a bright reflector around the lens.

  • wowiewowie Posts: 2,029

    Mustakettu85 said:

    You're welcome :) (I could only wish I were always right, though)

    I think I read something about an interesting eyelight trick for frontal shots - it's to have bright petal-like lightsources around the camera, and the character should be looking straight at the camera. Then their pupil remains dark but there's that starburst reflection over the iris. I hate frontal shots, so I never tried anything like that, but it's similar to gemstone photography trick of having a bright reflector around the lens.

    Ring camera light? Should be doable by playing with the poly shape inner radius. I also think there was a dev build where I was able to make a spoke/star like shape.

Sign In or Register to comment.