IRAY Photorealism?
Masterstroke
Posts: 1,997
I know this is a again and again question, sorry.
What Iray settings would you recommand to achieve the most photrealistic effect on a character render?
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You'd be better served asking in the commons. It's by far the most active forum.
That being said... That's a huge question that I don't think has a simple answer. I've been using DS for years and still don't get close to photoreal.
Lots of shader tweaks, realistic lighting. custom edits to diffuse, bump and normal maps and postwork are all probably necessary.
I thought I would see if I could whip something up that matched my idea of photorealistic.... that, of course, is relative since 3d rendering is always a bit sylized. Here I used Nolan for Christian, a Capse pose, a primitive cube shaded with one of the default iray shaders, Summer wear for Genesis 8, and a DimensionTheory HDRI. My own rule is start with a high quality character with dual lobe settings, an HDRI as the primary light source, good posing, and vision of what you are looking to create....
^that looks pretty good
i'm not an expert or anything, but the most realistic pictures I've seen are the promo pics from "Studio Light PRO HDRI Iray Wow Lights". It makes figures look like miniatures and not people, but at least realistic miniatures. it only uses 1 keylight and 1 backlight.
I'm always shooting for photorealism -- dunno if these examples look realistic to you.
Yup, I renember some of your pics. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G !!!! I'm actually a little bit envy. ;-)
You got that indoor low-light contrast look down good. I'd be fooled.
@nemesis10 that is what I think of as photorealistic in a 3D rendering context, clearly not a photo but not so far from looking like you could actually step into a 3D scene.
Thanks man
Those are probably some of the most realistic renders I've seen. The shirt looks less real than the person, which is rare. What do you do to achieve that?
are you a zbrusherist?, very well done.
Mainly realistic, natural poses, detailed 'non-clean' textures, and lighting... and you have to be selective about the hair you use. There's only like 3 totally realistic hairsets out there....
I've modified the face and body geometry slightly in Zbrush, but most work is done in Daz Studio... just need to dial in realistic proportions... much shorter legs, bigger eyes, etc...
This is my most recent stab at something approaching photorealism. The figure is Bridget HD, with some morphs applied to make her older, and some to make her less "ideal." I also used the Altern8 skin shaders which help to vary the skin tone. The render was done in Iray, with lighting from a couple of point lights--no DOF. About three hours of post, all in Photoshop. Most of the PS stuff was adding more hair, mottling the skin, and blurring the background (if I'd bothered with DOF, it would have saved some post work but also added render time).
Since the hair was thin and separated into fine strands, I made a mask from the figure by making turning off visibility on all the background elements and lights and saving the draw with "Preview lights" on. If someone knows a quicker way to make a mask in DS, I'd love to hear it. I'm still pretty new to this and I'm used to working with Zbrush and Modo which both generate masks, depth passes, and ambient occlusion which makes post work more controllable. The mask was used to "layer via cut" the background elements and I applied blur for the depth-of-field effect.
The bulk of the time was spent adding hair. I think one of things that makes Nemesis 10's render so real is the body hair. I think most of the hair made for DS is a compromise between render time and realism. It works well in long shots but closeups IMO leave a lot to be desired. I've been adding hair the old-fashioned way, one strand at a time. I use three different layers, one normal, one with a 1 pixel drop shadow, and, for the hair across the face, one with a one pixel drop shadow and one with a 50% Multiply drop shadow at a suitable distance.
I started posting renders today in hope of getting some feedback and learning from other users some of the tips and tricks they use. I'm also posting this image in the a new Art Studio thread, but I thought I'd jump into this thread since the subject was timely. Please let me know what you think and suggestions for improvement.
You've done some nice things here, that said, it's hard to assess any form of realism given the extreme facial expression, because even a photo of a real person making that face would look 'out of place' to the casual observer. Perhaps post some shots with a basic facial expression. Also, for hair, as you noted most do not look realistic up close, so recommend you start with a basic pony tail or something and focus on getting individual elements realistic (face, pose, lighting) before trying to combined them all into one realistic piece. For kicks, if you want to see some crazy realistic close up faces, check out the pic below from an ArtStation user. Insane! If Daz had the shader and renderers to pull that off, it'd be sweet!
Thanks, jeffam, that's good advice. I agree about the expression on my pic--it's too extreme, doesn't look right, and distracts from the other elements. I'll try something more basic next time.
I absolutely like them. Amazing work!
You see me begging for tutorials here
Both these artists claim they use Vray, which is not exactly the same rendering technique as Iray:
https://www.artstation.com/tkio
https://www.artstation.com/ianspriggs
Are ray-tracers generally better at producing photorealism than path-tracers? I wouldn't know.
This is another shot at photorealism, applying some of the suggestions made here about my first post. The figures are Mabel 8 and Xanthe 8, using an IBL for the background and some of the lighting plus 3 photometric spots for more definition. The render is in Iray, with minimal post work. I'd love to get more feedback--is this a little closer to the mark?
Having always been critical of the term 'photorealism' as I've never seen anything done in DS alone as even approaching it (though I've seen excellent scenes with heaps of postwork), if someone asked me to guess re the 2 images I'd guess that a photo of a real person had been photoshopped into the scene, particularly as she doesn't look like any set Daz character or any I've created myself. When I examine her eyebrows they look way too natural and asymmetric; where her hair meets her head the very fine hair looks 100% natural which is rarely if ever seen in DS renders, 3DL or Iray; plus the veins in her eyes make them look totally real and again nothing like I've ever seen in DS. So if those shots are really done in DS with only a little postwork I've never ever seen better!
Added a little later: I've reexamined those 2 images again and again and I have to be honest and say I don't believe the female isn't real. Even the skin markings and tones look too natural and humanly 'random'. To be convinced that we're not being conned here I'd need to know which DS models and characters were being used, what the outfit is, etc, etc. There are also too many odd lines around the face which makes me think it's not a render, plus around the main hair are too many loose fine hairs as you'd expect to see in a photo, but not in a render. I don't know what the facts are here, but I'd bet money we're being conned, though that said, if I'm wrong then the images are the by far the most 'photoreal' I've ever seen!
The Hair is not any Daz hair available in the store
Daz/poser hair never looks that real without major post work
The entire jawline edges look like the face of real person of a
Composited on in photoshop.
(Note the white line on the right jaw edge)
However the glasses seem fake or ,at the very least, do not have lenses
that would catch glare in those lighting conditions.
Aslo why is the her shadow of her left should not being broken
up by being cast onto the irregular shape of the lamp behind her.
Just my observations .
Ok, so it's all 100% Daz with no post-work in Photoshop or anywhere else. Some info and example (proof) images attached. Some random info on the model and scene:
Model: This is Genesis 8, with custom morphs done in ZBrush and also used Daz parameters to dial in more realistic proportions than the 'ideal' defaults. This is half the battle. Texture: Highly customized texture set using various commercial skins I bought then edited extensively in Photoshop to add markings, etc, to increase realism at far and medium distances. You will need different texture sets for near and far realism as subtle markings/imperfections needed for near/close-up images get resolve into nothing at far distance. Hair: the only hair I've found to be realistic enough is Bonnie Hair from the vendor Kool. To your keen eye and point, it's the only hair that has realistic 'scalp' transition...all the others are too abrupt and clean. Outfit: this is Snuggle Tee which my brother bought recently and I love it -- its basic but real and supports dForce. Env/Scene: the room is European Style Apartment, Bedroom Scene by Roguey - which I posted about before...it's is BY FAR the most realistic indoor environment set out there -- I dunno how he does it...it's almost as if iphotogrammetry was used for the textures. Unfortunately, its the only product he sells :(. Other Stuff: I used various body hairs I've bought -- they make a big difference (arms, face, etc). Also, this is using Misumi Eyebrows from the awesome Misumi character. Posing: this is as critical as any part of it -- I did custom poses for the most part where I've tried to capture a 'casual / realistic' pose since virtually no pose collection on Daz Store has these. Lighting: this is the most important part to get right. Rendering: I use Spectral Rendering Natural, Pixel Filter to 1.2 for far away and 2.0 for close up, and a range of Tone Mapping to fit the lighting. That's basically it.
See attached below for: Raw Render from Daz Iray, Viewport Texture Shaded, and Viewport Shaded Wireframes...
Thanks.
Haha...sweeet
Yeah I've seen some of your pics in some other photo realism thread and commented that they are the best I've ever seen...you obviously know what you're doing... guys, take it like a man
Wow, amazing stuff!
I reworked the first image I posted, using the suggestions in this thread and in the Art Studio section. Changing the expression, relighting, using a different hair, and minimizing the postwork all helped IMO. Please offer any additional suggestions--it's been very helpful getting this input. I added a wet look geoshell to obscure some of the texture of the skin--it looked a little wierd to me. Most of the postwork was adding hair. Even though the hair was pretty realistic it didn't seem fine enough, so I went in and broke up the clumps with finer lines. Do you think this works or does it give the hair an artificial look? Suggestions on how to improve the skin texture would also be appreciated.
Definitely going to have to try those settings--that snapshot feel is very realistic. I wonder if there should be more shadow cast from the flash--the background seems a little flat to me. But definity has a real photo look to it. I think photorealism can mean any number of photographic techniques--motion pictures, Polaroid, emulsion based, digital, chrome prints, gelatin, etc. "Photoreal" in and of itself doesn't define the goal--it seems like the goal is to succeed in creating a look that could be captured by photographers, who these days often do a fair amount of postwork themselves.
This is the most realistic render that I have ever seen, both via DAZ and over at CGS/ZBC! I'm wondering if you have the pixel filter radius at 2.9 or so? I usually pump up the radius to get rid of the crisp-ness which usually identify the scene as 3D!
jeffam112368_9a28fbd572 ~ Good job didn't bet money then! The Misumi eyebrows are impressive and way better than any other I've seen - though I'm not so keen on the character as she's too long and stringy for an Oriental. The Bonnie Hair is also impressive, so I've added that to my Wish List.
Re my previous last line: "I don't know what the facts are here [I now do!], but I'd bet money we're being conned [so glad I didn't!], though that said, if I'm wrong then the images are the by far the most 'photoreal' I've ever seen!" That last clause stands! Very well done!
Thanks for showing your workflow
you have a very high level of expertise
I stand corrected
Thanks, and no I usually keep the pixel filter at 1.0 or 1.5, sometimes higher. For this one it was 1.2. 2.9 would be pretty blurry...would be better off just applying a blur in Photoshop afterwards probably -- that way you have a crisp image and blurry image depending on which you want.
Thanks !