IRAY Photorealism?

justanother__boy_ca94588ae2

lilweep said:

yeah, it was just some freebie from sketchfab.  I have a lot of free stuff on sketchfab organised into personal collections, the naming conventions of which probably dont make sense to anyone but me: https://sketchfab.com/peen.wolf/collections

Well someone's collection(s) just got bookmarked xD I've always wanted to mess around with photogrammetry stuff /scans :3

Also, love the name xD (peen.wolf) love it love it love it.

Some of the photogrammetrty stuff is very good, much better than the crap i used here. I admittedly selected one hastily and maybe it wasnt really appropriate because it has a lot of flaws.  My render was supposed to just be a test render, so i wasnt very selective when choosing a background.

Not that i have anything against Daz environments - many of them are very good!

 

Senor_Monkey

I usually stay away from photorealism, as I hate the uncanny valley effect, however I thought I'd give it a go, with mixed results. This is the closest I've got yet.

emoryahlberg

Cozy!

emoryahlberg

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

 

aaráribel caađo

Senor_Monkey said:

I usually stay away from photorealism, as I hate the uncanny valley effect, however I thought I'd give it a go, with mixed results. This is the closest I've got yet.

Not bad! A bit more light on the hair or different toning so the hair doesn't fall into a black hole would help. The tatts are a bit too clean on the edges, so they look painted on. 

aaráribel caađo

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

aaráribel caađo

No change to my skin shader—I haven't taken advantage of the new shader—but this studio lighting (HDRIHaven's Studio 05 Plus a fat softbox below the camera) and Kodak Elite Chrome LUT worked really well to my eyes. Not that there aren't obvious flaws—my model has issues with non-round eyes that I'm going to have to sort out, for example. This is a comparison between the 8.0 and 8.1 version of the same model. 

lilweep

Senor_Monkey said:

I usually stay away from photorealism, as I hate the uncanny valley effect, however I thought I'd give it a go, with mixed results. This is the closest I've got yet.

what skin was this? It seems to have a lot of interesting details.

By the way, the tattoo on the back is broken at the boundary of the Body and Neck surfaces.

Richard Haseltine

aaráribel caađo said:

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

The straps scream at me as wrong.

emoryahlberg

Richard Haseltine said:

aaráribel caađo said:

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

The straps scream at me as wrong.

Yeah! Dammit... Those are hard to fix.

cajhin

@emoryahlberg: to my eyes, the face looks too clean/photoshopped, especially compared to the body texture.

And something about the smile, maybe the lips should stretch more with that smile, I don't know.

laskarisspiros8

Hello,thats my first post here,i have been watching this thread months now,i like the photorealism a lot in  a 3D software..
Thats my first Render posting here :)

Pblq

New attempts, lack of details as always

 

JVRenderer

emoryahlberg said:

Richard Haseltine said:

aaráribel caađo said:

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

The straps scream at me as wrong.

Yeah! Dammit... Those are hard to fix.

Select your figure in the scene tab. Goto your parameter, select actor and in the search bar look for "head propagating Scale" increase or decrease the dial

lilweep

JVRenderer said:

emoryahlberg said:

Richard Haseltine said:

aaráribel caađo said:

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

The straps scream at me as wrong.

Yeah! Dammit... Those are hard to fix.

Select your figure in the scene tab. Goto your parameter, select actor and in the search bar look for "head propagating Scale" increase or decrease the dial

um dont think anyone was asking for help doing that lol 

JVRenderer

lilweep said:

JVRenderer said:

emoryahlberg said:

Richard Haseltine said:

aaráribel caađo said:

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

The straps scream at me as wrong.

Yeah! Dammit... Those are hard to fix.

Select your figure in the scene tab. Goto your parameter, select actor and in the search bar look for "head propagating Scale" increase or decrease the dial

um dont think anyone was asking for help doing that lol 

ah, sorry, I thought you had head issues... To adjust the straps, I would use Meshgrabber, RSSY ultimate Clothing fixer, Zev0 Fit Control.... or a combination of those three

emotionaldreams2

yall really posting some beautiufl and excellent work being done. good job 

emotionaldreams2

notiusweb

JVRenderer said:

lilweep said:

JVRenderer said:

emoryahlberg said:

Richard Haseltine said:

aaráribel caađo said:

emoryahlberg said:

I believe a casual observer might believe this was a real photo. Thoughts?

That's close. There's something not quite there, but I can't identify what it is. Maybe her head is just a bit too small for her body? Or her leg proportions are too top-heavy? It seems that it's something in that elusive 1-5%, the small details concious brains miss but unconcious mind reads. Great work.

The straps scream at me as wrong.

Yeah! Dammit... Those are hard to fix.

Select your figure in the scene tab. Goto your parameter, select actor and in the search bar look for "head propagating Scale" increase or decrease the dial

um dont think anyone was asking for help doing that lol 

ah, sorry, I thought you had head issues... To adjust the straps, I would use Meshgrabber, RSSY ultimate Clothing fixer, Zev0 Fit Control.... or a combination of those three

Excellent render.  I will add though Aararibel and JV Renderer are onto something.  It is the first thing I thought of before even reading their comments.  To me it's not that her head was to small, as in scale-wise, but that she has weight on her body and then a very lean looking head.  A touch fuller head would be more convincing.   If you recall, the opposite had happened in this same thread with JeffSomeone, when he posted a male that had a lean muscular body but a very soft full head.  It looked out of proportion.  His subsequent adjustment indeed improved the realism when he adjusted the weight-look of the head to more match the body shape.

j cade

aaráribel caađo said:

Leonides02 said:

j cade, why don't you seel these hairs? You'd make a killing!!! This is what SBH should be and none of the PA's can deliver but you.

aaráribel caađo, why don't you use the filmic on your EXR's?

@j_cade, I second @Leonides02's comment. 

Filmic applies tonal compression to the images, but I can do that in Affinity's "Tone Mapping Persona" with more control. 

A = ICC Display transform with exposure set to -12. B = OCIO filmic with exposure -12. C = OCIO filmic with exporsure -16. D = A + 100% tonal compression in Tone Mapping. E = C + 100% tonal compression. 

With tone mapping, I can bring in as much or little shadow detail as I want while I tone it, rather than relying on filmic to deliver it, while keeping all the benefits of a 32-bit file. I was going for dark and moody, so the filmic tone mapping just worked against where I wanted this image to end up. (I used an Ilford HP4+ LUT for the black and white conversion/final toning after I finished with the Tone Mapping Persona. I added ISO 400 film grain and tilt-shift blur in Photoshop.) 

I believe the filmic standard was developed for Hollywood pipelines as a way of ensuring color remains consistent and minimally lossy through the many different transformations and softwares. That's important when you're compositing many assets from both CGI and camera outputs. But not necessarily critical when you're working with a single asset. However, this is a case where the software you use does impact your workflow. My guess is Blender compositing is designed around filmic, so ignoring it there might cause problems.

whoops never got around to replying to this - the thing I like about going through blender is its actually pretty idiot proof - plug in the exr what comes out is something close to what comes out of a camera. You can then take that and treat it as if it were a photo you took. Because the more complex ocio setup can have many different imputs its more complex to work with, blender on the other hand expects a 3d render as an input so all you have to do is pick "how much contrast do i want in the output?" and not even have to think about what a color space is.

 

I have been experimenting a bit with davinci resolve though, which offers a bit more control, but all the ocio is built in and node based so its closer to what I'm familiar with - I tried affinity as well but then scuttled away back to the comforting embrace of nodes. 

aaráribel caađo

Has anyone been playing with the new 8.1 shader with much success? I'd like to convert over to take advantage of some it's less-waxy SSS look, but haven't had time for in-depth expiramentation.

j cade

aaráribel caađo said:

Has anyone been playing with the new 8.1 shader with much success? I'd like to convert over to take advantage of some it's less-waxy SSS look, but haven't had time for in-depth expiramentation.

 I really like it!*

 

Well, I really like it after taking it into the shader mixer and bashing it into shape. Which tbf is something I also did with the Uber shader.

 

Things I really like:

That tiling bump is sweet. As someone who is generally pro things that don't use a bunch of extra 4k textures adding detail with small maps is 100% up my alley.

 

Things I'm neither here nor there for: 

Losing scatter and transmit. Provided your using the white transmission color you can set translucency as high as you want without undue darkening. 

 

Things I'm not a fan of one of which I have fixed:

There's weird edge darkening with the dual lobe specular now in my experiments it has something to do with the specular occlusion, given that this is the opposite of how things should work I'm not a fan. The edges of the skin should be catching light thanks both to fresnel and all our little tiny hairs. This is why I started using a bit of backscattering with my skin settings and this could counter the darkening of the new dual lobe, but the new shader doesn't have backscattering either.

 

So I went into the shader editor and added backscattering, of course, for extra fun, there isn't actually a backscattering node in the shader mixer it's built into a larger node with no way to separate it out. Thankfully I do own another program that uses iray - substance. So I was able to borrow some shaders from there. 

 

There was some definite gnashing of teeth but I now have my own tweaked shader with backscattering (and that plugs the diffuse map into the translucency slot with a mix node so I can also lighten it and adjust the color, the same thing I had previously set up with the Uber shader) 

And I have a 1 click material preset that I can apply to any character and convert to my version of the shader with good settings (incidentally making the material preset was more painful than making the shader, going through and selecting all the specific elements for every material zone is basically torture)

 

I have a super fun comparison image but it's going to have to wait until Monday when I have actual internet again, 

Leonides02

j cade said:

 

And I have a 1 click material preset that I can apply to any character and convert to my version of the shader with good settings (incidentally making the material preset was more painful than making the shader, going through and selecting all the specific elements for every material zone is basically torture)

Sounds fantastic, j cade. Would you be able to share this material setting? The shader node is indecipherable to me.

bluejaunte

j cade said:

aaráribel caađo said:

Has anyone been playing with the new 8.1 shader with much success? I'd like to convert over to take advantage of some it's less-waxy SSS look, but haven't had time for in-depth expiramentation.

 There's weird edge darkening with the dual lobe specular now in my experiments it has something to do with the specular occlusion, given that this is the opposite of how things should work I'm not a fan. The edges of the skin should be catching light thanks both to fresnel and all our little tiny hairs. This is why I started using a bit of backscattering with my skin settings and this could counter the darkening of the new dual lobe, but the new shader doesn't have backscattering either.

This is pretty cool to get around that. I really like it.

https://www.daz3d.com/iray-vellus-horizon-shader-system-for-genesis-8-female

j cade

Leonides02 said:

j cade said:

 

And I have a 1 click material preset that I can apply to any character and convert to my version of the shader with good settings (incidentally making the material preset was more painful than making the shader, going through and selecting all the specific elements for every material zone is basically torture)

Sounds fantastic, j cade. Would you be able to share this material setting? The shader node is indecipherable to me.

It is unfortunately very unsharable as a result of the aforementioned shader element I borrowed from substance painter.

aaráribel caađo

@jcade Were you able to take a node directly from Substance, or does it just reference a Substance network? Can you share a screenshot of your nodes?

j cade

aaráribel caađo said:

@jcade Were you able to take a node directly from Substance, or does it just reference a Substance network? Can you share a screenshot of your nodes?

I can't currently take a screenshot as I have no internet just my phone data, (everything is so spread out that I don't think I could create a useful one anyway) but the hardest part was finding where substance stores it's mdl files, which was painful - it's in a hidden folder c:\ProgramData\NVIDIA Corporation\mdl you can use LwBase copy that file to a directory DS has mapped for mdls. Then you can click and drag it into DS shader mixer and add a #Backscattering to call the correct part. The hard part was definitely finding where it was stored. Once it's in I just layered it on top with an add fresnel layer node. If you've experimented with trying to import vmaterials (theres some threads about it) or fiddled with shader mixer before, it's about as straightforward as it gets (for using the shader mixer any way)

Leonides02

j cade said:

Leonides02 said:

j cade said:

 

And I have a 1 click material preset that I can apply to any character and convert to my version of the shader with good settings (incidentally making the material preset was more painful than making the shader, going through and selecting all the specific elements for every material zone is basically torture)

Sounds fantastic, j cade. Would you be able to share this material setting? The shader node is indecipherable to me.

It is unfortunately very unsharable as a result of the aforementioned shader element I borrowed from substance painter.

Ah. Darn! Well, I'm looking forward to the comparison shots! 

Masterstroke

another apartment render.

j cade

Alright internet is back! although and also I had to reinstall windows for unrelated reasons. its been a week.

here is the angharads materials applied and left as default and then what I get with 1 click (well, technically there are 2 clicks as I also switched spectral mode on) obviously I could further tweak things - bring the spec back up, tint her slightly, etc - but its prrobably 99% of the way to final.

 

also worth noting how despite removing the lighter sss map and replacing it with a duplicated diffuse map - and having the SSS set all the way up at 1.0 my settings are still somehow lighter than the default settings I'd forgotton just how orange the defaults are

I highly recommend making your own preset if you've found settings you like. It is awful to set up (saving the preset required going through and selecting each setting I wanted for every material zone as it applies some textures like tiling bump but leaves others alone so I had to select what I wanted completely manually) but, as a reward for going through that, going forwards a lot of repeditive work I do on all characters is now replaced by clicking a preset