Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
As for skins based on scans, there are dozens. In fact many of the ones you see on the Daz store were made using photographs of real people. There are also merchant resources available which include photographs along with their skin layouts for editing purposes.
Now, that's not to say that these photo-based textures are suitable for everyone. If yours is the sort of artwork which benefits more from the baked textures, then that's entirely your prerogative. I'm not trying to sell you anything after all. I was, however, trying to expand your horizons a little to help you understand why these extra settings are so vital in realism.
Art is individual. Everyone has their own particular tastes and preferences. You and I might be opposites, but that doesn't mean we have to be opposition.
I completely agree with you and respect your opinion. Thanks for sharing that perspective with me. I think you are right on just about all counts except 'based on photographs' Vs. Scanning, a far more complex matte where the character is copied pixel for pixel just like in most Hollywood productions like Walt Disney's, "Tron: Legacy". Now don't get me wrong, I don't expect little old DAZ 3d to break out with the Jeff Bridges or Olivia Wild model for $19.95 but here is the things... IT'S POSSIBLE. Why would I want to make a character that looks like a cartoon when I KNOW other people have these amazingly real models and I can't seem to find any of even a similar quality of anybody that is relatively pretty? I'd be happy to pay up for the character matte if it looks like a person, otherwise were all just wasting our time making fake cartoons and patting ourselves on the back while the real industry professionals are leaving all of us in the dust.
I plan on having my own library of Hollywood movie quality characters and assets :) ... On a wine budget. LOL
In the end, I think its a combination of all the available techniques combined together both layered and baked in that will ultimately be the products that people want tomorrow.
I'd also like to see poses for the G2 characters that move parts of the bodies without also moving the location of the characters.
I know.. I do a lot of dreaming. Thanks for the chat.
Sorry...but that is 'old hat' around here.
Umm...no, but they have it for $40...
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-elite-reby-sky
And that is what 4 or 5 yrs old?
Sorry...but that is 'old hat' around here.
Umm...no, but they have it for $40...
http://www.daz3d.com/v4-elite-reby-sky
And that is what 4 or 5 yrs old?
Thanks friend... Daz has several other older elite characters that are just as brilliant... except one problem.. The old generation of characters like Reby Sky were created on obsolete morphs, without HD. I can slap that converted skin on V6 but I lose matching the skin and the morph together and that causes the skin to stretch and mold in ways that lack the perfection of a new scan done in HD would provide.
I've actually been doing this with Reby and many other characters. LOVE all the elite characters which is why I'm still prodding people to get a G2 HD Elite set.
Can't put the old wine in the new wine skins and expect that to last.. :)
As for skins based on scans, there are dozens. In fact many of the ones you see on the Daz store were made using photographs of real people. There are also merchant resources available which include photographs along with their skin layouts for editing purposes.
Now, that's not to say that these photo-based textures are suitable for everyone. If yours is the sort of artwork which benefits more from the baked textures, then that's entirely your prerogative. I'm not trying to sell you anything after all. I was, however, trying to expand your horizons a little to help you understand why these extra settings are so vital in realism.
Art is individual. Everyone has their own particular tastes and preferences. You and I might be opposites, but that doesn't mean we have to be opposition.
I've been thinking about what you said and its funny to me because the photo based characters are just the ones I LOVE. I like my characters slightly flawed. How many supermodels have moles in just the right places that makes them standout from the crowd.
I find it interesting that I've got a specialized high end graphics monster of a computer that is dedicated only to graphic arts and yet, when I try to layer items in Daz Studio, it slows me down to a an embarrassing crawl, especially when I'm not rendering and just trying to load more objects or navigate around in DAZ 3d. For that simple reason alone, I won't waste my time with anything layered. God forbid you have more than one character with the extra layers for bruises, tattoos or even clothing shaders... The program itself may claim to be able to handle it but the reality of layered objects in Daz Studio is they simply don't work... Maybe you do all your rendering in poser but I either use Daz or I export to Vue or LuxRender. Daz doesn't play well with layers in my experience.
Just the thing I think is brilliant... the little details like moles, different skin colors and things that make the character an actual individual are just what is needed. Of course everybody here will probably continue to disagree :)
Dude I have NO idea what you have but my BUILT to render PC handles LAYERS and even Multi LAYERS on Multi characters with a breeze. Do not knock those that CAN, that DO and prefer to customize their own figures just because you can not. I'm working on one of the LARGEST renders I've ever done (36 FULL genesis and G2 figures and textures, layers, clothing and all and still climbing) and its not slowed down one bit. It sounds like you have a issue with the PC, or possibly the install of the programs and or content. You may prefer BAKED on but those of us that will do some work on our own have left that BAKED on stuff behind long ago, or for games were it rightly belongs now. And Yes I do have and USE a game engine as well, it is another reason this PC was built. Here are my Specs...
Intel Core i7 Processor EXTREME EDITION i7-3970X 3.5GHz 15MB SIX CORE
ANTEC KÜHLER H2O 920 ENCLOSED LIQUID COOLING SYSTEM
Asus P9X79-E WS LGA2011/ Intel X79/ DDR3/ 4-Way CrossFireX & 4-Way
SLI/SATA3e&SATA3;&USB3;.0/ A2GbE/CEB Motherboad
64GB (8 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600MHz (PC3 12800) Quad Channel (HIGH PERFORMANCE)
CORSAIR 360GB Solid State Drive SATA III (READ/WRITE 550MB/515MB)
2TB 7200 RPM 64MB CACHE SATA 6.0Gb/s
ASUS 14X BLU-RAY DISK BURNER DVD-RW COMBO DRIVE
nVidia GeForce GTX690 4GB DDR5 3DVI/MINI-DISPLAY PCI-Express Video Card
REALTEK 8-CHANNEL DIGITAL SOUND ONBOARD
REALTEK 10/100/1000 Gigabit Network Card (onboard)
THERMALTAKE 1475 WATT HIGH PERFORMANCE SLI/CROSSFIRE POWER SUPPLY
It would be interesting to see how your pictures look. Maybe you can share some. It would be cool if the forum profile was linked to the gallery pictures of the person speaking.
In any case... I'm just saying what my experience is with layers and why I don't like them. You don't have to agree but thats still not improving my experience using layers. Look forward to seeing your picture rendered in 3delight using many layers.
Your missing the point. Your after one thing and want EVERYONE to want that one thing too. It's just not going to happen, the reason I buy DAZ 3D textures are the fact they are BETTER than most sold other places, I'll not agree the lower quality is better ever. And All my public renders ARE in my Art Studio thread (see my Sig) OR on my DaniantArt account here http://jaderail.deviantart.com/
To answer your earlier query Snowphoenix, I use Daz Studio 4.6 currently for all of my artwork. I still own a copy of Poser Pro 2010, which is showing its age in more than a few ways, but I mostly use it for the benefits of its cloth room and for material experimentation. I have a strong focus towards realism, which I feel is a lofty goal but one which will almost certainly be attainable in the foreseeable future.
Now, if you'll indulge me I'd like to tell you a little story. Not so long ago, I was in the position of having only recently migrated to Daz Studio. Poser's material settings continually managed to confuse and confound me, I had great difficulty positioning lights and my work was what most would consider cartoonish. I continued to make images, struggling to make anything which I would consider worth sharing.
Since using Daz Studio my art has improved dramatically and I can create works which I'm genuinely happy with. I'm still a long way from my goal of realism, and I respect that, but with every step I'm learning more and improving upon that. Now, some might look at this and assume that the software was the reason I improved, however I disagree.
What changed was how I viewed myself. I had an unfamiliar program which I had to learn from the ground up, and I recognized that I would need to master this new tool before I could achieve my goals. What really changed in me is that I realised that I didn't know it all, and I was more willing to learn. I realised that to improve my abilities I would need to do things which might be outside my usual comfort zone, and to experiment with new ideas.
Rarely does someone know everything there is to know about a subject, so there are inevitably new things to learn. By learning from those in the community who can do things I cannot, I will endeavour to improve my own skills. The first step, however, is a willingness to learn and admit that not everything may be as it first seems.
I disagree.. in fact its very much the opposite. Yes, I want something not currently available at Daz so I go to the competition and speak directly to the people that make exactly what I do want and I've had a very pleasant experience doing it.
The issue in my opinion here is that some people seem to think this is competition and that if I retain my point of view, somehow that invalidates their opinion. I'm perfectly fine with the continued procession of low quality characters coming out of DAZ 3d, I simply wont spend my money on them but I would like to see the people who make my favorite character mesh also make a high quality character that meets my exacting standards. This is what I have found great resistance to, even being personally insulted.
I find it interesting that in your competition mode, you felt compelled to tell me your computer specs as if I care when the only reason I explained that I have a high end computer myself is so that people like you didn't just turn around and blame the massive slow down upon adding layers, on the machine... You see, some people always need to have something to blame and a finger to point. I already have the quality that I want, the contacts I need and the resources are already available.
DAZ 3d is slowly catching up with "Hollywood" industry standards with the recent introduction of HD Characters and while I know it can be price prohibitive the next advance coming out of DAZ has to be a HD Skin worthy of placing on those HD Meshes that looks a lot more realistic then whats on offer. I think if anything you guys might know that once you've cross that final hurdle, people will rightly begin to expect it with everything and that means no more slapping together characters that look like cartoons as if you don't have a entire library of outdated characters to reminiscence about. The few "Elite" characters I've found, I've already purchased. F
The point is that its time for a new Genesis 2 male/female HD Elite character and not somebody telling me about the obsoleted versions in the catalog. Cross the final bridge ... reality awaits.
If you require neither, than that's just fine, but I'd appreciate you not insulting anyone with an opposing view. Those who are unwilling to learn cannot be taught, but if you keep your mind open to new ideas, you might just surprise yourself.
Love it, love your attitude and I'll bet I'd love your pictures if you share some. Great thoughts and I couldn't agree with you more. Trust me when I say that I've been learning plenty along the way too... which is why I love annoying the people in this forum because they have been very helpful to me.
I really like the software but I also have to be realistic and recognize its limitations and my own ignorance... I mean, there are still huge quantities of menu options in the program that I've never even bothered looking at. CREDIT TO DAZ. They have done an excellent job of making the software relevant but simple enough that you can feel comfortable learning it, even better than pay version Poser which I have the latest professional version of but don't use because it is overly complicated and feels bogged down to me.
I collect these characters for some reason... I love having a library of sets to use and characters and I love the new Genesis 2 characters, especially the HD versions.. pricey but that extra detail really does make all the difference and I see it when I place V4 skins on HD meshes since V4 is old enough to still have a massive library and following.
It looks like a lot of people aren't updating due to cost. It's not cheap paying 80 dollars for just HD characters is a lot of money to invest. I'm surprised at the number of V4 characters I still see being released even today... In better times everybody will have the latest and greatest models and dozens of new releases coming in a variety of skin colors and ethnic variations.. can't wait. Thanks for sharing with me.. great thoughts. Much respect.
Just thinking out loud that the real issue is that making truly great looking HD characters isn't making anybody a lot of money right now... Those of you on the cutting edge know it... Great looking characters take a lot of man hours to create and this isn't exactly a huge market (people who make daz/poser characters) but there is A LOT of competition between people who make characters as a hobby and don't expect a huge return and others who have to try and squeak out a rent payment by making things you'll pay good money for.
I don't envy the position. A lot must go into what all of you do and I'm sorry if I seem ingrateful or if you think that I don't appreciate what you guys need to do. On the other hand, that doesn't stop me from striving to be the best at what we do and that means I get the best supplies from the best suppliers and they probably aren't going to make a million dollars doing it but ultimately we are really in this business of expressing ourselves and hopefully out of that message comes a love and a passion for what all us are doing.
Thanks for allowing me to express myself too. I appreciate all the help and patience I've been afforded. :)
I'd be interested myself to know how successful the HD figures have been. There has been quite a few new HD morphs recently, so I can only assume it must be selling at least moderately well. I personally bought the Michael and Victoria HD bundle on a whim, more out of curiosity than a desire for realism. That said, I've been quite glad of the results.
Still for me the majority of my work still focuses on the younger generations, and they don't benefit quite as much from the current HD offerings as the adults do. While I doubt we'll see any HD child morphs any time soon, I've got more than enough to carry on with already. Genesis 2 has proven a very versatile and malleable figure, and once GenX V2 is released I have a feeling that it'll make transitioning from Generation 4 figures even easier for those on the fence.
I agree with Jaderail that your issues with LIE is of your own making. If li'l Blinky, my 5 year old laptop with only a 1.2 GHz dual core processor and 4 GB of memory (256 MB that is used by the integrated graphics) can use LIE than your computer should too.
Agreed. Especially when you consider that its fairly easy to make Genesis 2 HD backwards compatible. Thank goodness for that because since I'm such a overly fussy consumer, I've been finding specific characters and placing the V4 skins on top of the V6HD mesh with great results.
I wouldn't be to fussed about HD child morphs.. I'll bet any money Zev0 already has something in the pipeline and I highly recommend everything that vendor makes. :)
Good luck and thanks for sharing.. post a link to your work if you don't mind.. would love to peak.
As always, the link to my DeviantArt is in my signature. If you want to see what I'm up to, that's where most of it goes.
I would be interested also to know how they are doing, especially since I have little interest in them at the moment (still prefer genesis 1), definitely not enough interest to justify the price. i also agree with what was posted earlier that to really take advantage of the HD features, we need new HD skins, preferably without any baked in features for those that choose unbiased rendering options since baked in features are aimed at the biased renderers and game designs.
Will be interesting to see how the HD tech matures (or not) in the future.
Loved the art work. I see that you and me have a lot in common when I look at the AMAZING pictures you've made. I especially like your post on smart tags and I'll try to put that to use when I've finished reading it but the general idea sounds like its really going to help me get my catalog organized... I've collected so many old characters and objects it takes a while just to find some things at times. Thanks for that.
On the wishlist... I love to see a lot more support for the Genesis 2 male. If you think about it, there are so many cultures in modern Earth that aren't really covered and religious symbols would be nice... I wonder if anybody can make a good ZZ Top style facial hair that would look real.
In the area of great tools, Sickleyield gets the prize for the Hat Helper:
http://www.daz3d.com/new-releases/hat-and-hair-helper-genesis-2
I LOVE it. Talk about innovation. Hats off to you where ever you are... Great product and easy to use. Strongly suggested. I can finally get into using hats.
I'd nominate that for product of the quarter and he's opened up a whole new market... more people will be comfortable with hats.. Its so easy to use, even I figured it out after looking at the directions and having a go.. thanks.
I find your view of the DAZ 3D content insulting to myself. The products sold here are often the Highest rated content in many reviews done by the Professionals in 3D themselves. So once again I disagree.
I normally stay out of your threads and only entered this one thinking you had content issues as I read some of the posts. I also took the time to voice my PERSONAL view a little and provide a little background about myself such as I do play at Game design so have seen both ends of 3D, the quest for photo real and fast game execution. I will learn to keep my 30 plus years of 3D to myself and the research that I do on what the Professional 3D artist use in their real work for TV and Movies to myself as well. It is known to most users that DAZ Studio is a hobby level 3D application that has some power to it now, but in the end it is still just a Hobbyist level program. HD or no HD mesh, HD textures or no HD textures it simply is not for the goals you seem to have. I now bow out of the conversation again, though my intent was NOT what you perceived it to be I see no reason to discuss this any longer.
Don't take my opinion personally. It doesn't matter that we've both been in computers since the abacus. All that matters is what we are capable of producing right now and the question is, are we relevant as industry professionals or are we 'hobbyist' making a mockery of what the real people do? If anything, I would say that your point of view is more insulting because it means none of us are doing anything at a professional level and that we shouldn't be expected to be taken seriously since we are just using a almost toy program and pieces... and yet, 3delight is an industry standard rendering engine...
You say you think 'old school' is an insult, yet you just told me you've been doing this for '30 plus years'... don't be insulted. Stay relevant. Look at the technology being employed today and ask yourself if what your making meets or exceeds what is possible.
Let your art work speak for you.
What interesting is have you looked at the graphics in video games? They are a lot better then most of the promotional renders I see on Daz studios front page right now... and I know that all of you are capable of doing better. We have amazing software, great enviroments and lots of strong points like HD meshes and a growing catalog of materials... and the real bonus is that some of us like DAZ Studio enough to want to push people out of there comfort zones and realize that both streams of thought can co-exist together... neither of us has to be the be all end all pack up our toys and leave. We can continue to communicate and improve at our chosen 'hobby' until we do become tried and true professionals
Keep up the great work, you're doing just fine.
I don't know about you but I'd love a great collection of partial poses for M6 that includes everything from eyes to the tongue for expressions and having exact control over everything going on. Especially ones that don't cause the character to move from where its at.
But... professional textures don't have highlights, shadows, and ambient occlusion baked in unless it is to make it look better on a device that has to render on the fly like a video game engine.
Aren't we going for better here?
Really? So you think that when they rendered young Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy that they took a texture as you describe and then added the details of the actor on top of a blank skin? I'll bet you any money that they made a dedicated character that was scanned in from his old pictures.
Really? So you think that when they rendered young Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy that they took a texture as you describe and then added the details of the actor on top of a blank skin? I'll bet you any money that they made a dedicated character that was scanned in from his old pictures.
That is not a very good example...considering that particular item is #47 on the list of Worst Special Effects in Movie History...
That is not a very good example...considering that particular item is #47 on the list of Worst Special Effects in Movie History...
So where does that put all of us if we can't even match that same level of realism or do much better? Why would you put other peoples work down? I loved the movie and I loved the character and all of the effects.
Clearly we like different things and that is alright friend. That doesn't change the fact that industry professionals do in fact use dedicated characters for higher realism.
In truth, most of the work was done by scanning a realistic model based on the actor and not the actor himself. Jeff Bridges had various points on his face mapped so they could motion capture it to do the animation work necessary for speech. Of course, it's because they relied too heavily on post-effects using their CG programs which caused it to be so critically analyzed.
You can strive for excellence, but unless you're willing to learn and accept founding concepts which are key to reaching the goals you seek you'll never truly grow as an artist. My early Daz days taught me how little I really knew about 3D art when I thought I knew it all. You could do worse than to take notes and employ some of the techniques you're quick to condemn. It may open up new avenues for growth.
In truth, most of the work was done by scanning a realistic model based on the actor and not the actor himself. Jeff Bridges had various points on his face mapped so they could motion capture it to do the animation work necessary for speech. Of course, it's because they relied too heavily on post-effects using their CG programs which caused it to be so critically analyzed.
You can strive for excellence, but unless you're willing to learn and accept founding concepts which are key to reaching the goals you seek you'll never truly grow as an artist. My early Daz days taught me how little I really knew about 3D art when I thought I knew it all. You could do worse than to take notes and employ some of the techniques you're quick to condemn. It may open up new avenues for growth.
I love the way you think and I have no objections to what you are saying. I do how ever take exception at the fact that the only people excluding anything are the ones who say what not to do... and that means all the people who are saying not to use dedicated characters. I'm completely open to using featureless base characters if they look better but nobody has any illustrations, demonstration or anything but words to say why my way should 'NEVER' be used... thats silly and wrong. Dedicated objects get used all the time to varied degrees in just about all good materials and they will be used again in the future.
It's interesting that people keep saying I'm excluding anything rather then looking for other avenues that work for me. I tell you layers slow down my computer and they say "you must have an install problem"... well that doesn't change the fact that layers don't work right on my computer for whatever reason.. so I'm looking for what will work and for me, thats dedicated characters and maybe someday DAZ will make them too and everybody can be happy.
Personally, they are working brilliantly for me but I do want to get more for my collection. :)
When you say 'dedicated characters' I'm not sure what you mean. Surely figures like Victoria, Stephanie, Gia and Olympia are, by definition, 'dedicated characters'? They have their own skin texture and their own morphs. They have options in the form of various make-ups and some times even body tattoos. Aren't figures like these the very essence of a 'dedicated' character?
By zooming in on my example character, the picture better demonstrates what I like to see in a character without postwork and to me, this is what looks a lot better... beautiful imperfections.
I think what you mean is characteristics rather than character. When you refer to a character, it is generally taken to mean a particular morph/texture/model. What you seem to want are the flaws or imperfections aka characteristics.
If your systems is having issues with layers, you can try an old work around we used to use the in bad old days of P4/Poser ProPack and even P5 (these were the days before DAZ Studio even existed).
Open your graphics app that supports layers. Locate the texture you want to add the layer to. Open it in your graphics app. Locate the layer and open it, depending upon your graphics app, do whatever you would do to apply the layer to the texture as a layer. Merge the two layers and save to a folder you can find under a new name to avoid the original texture being overwritten.
You now have a "new" texture with the layer applied. You would have to initially apply the new textures manually but once you do, you can save as a preset.
When you do say your system slows down with layers applied, can you give a link to the product causing the slow down? I'm asking because there are some products that really aren't layers. They are actually a second figure that conforms to visible figure.