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http://www.daz3d.com/tattoo-parlor-genesis-2-female-and-v6-vol-1
One that really did a number on my ability to even move in my menu was the Tattoo parlor which is why I posted that picture of the firefighter and the arm with the tattoo... As soon as I load just about any of the tattoo layers, especially if I do more than one tattoo... Major issues.
http://www.daz3d.com/tattoo-parlor-genesis-2-female-and-v6-vol-1
One that really did a number on my ability to even move in my menu was the Tattoo parlor which is why I posted that picture of the firefighter and the arm with the tattoo... As soon as I load just about any of the tattoo layers, especially if I do more than one tattoo... Major issues.
Here's something to try. Load the figure, apply the texture and layers you want. Save this as a layered image preset. This is found in the Save As command under the File drop down. This should save it as a .dsi file. Instead of deleting the figure, create a new scene. This should clear out the undo and free up resources. Reload the figure and apply the layered image preset. Pose, add the lights and props and render. See if this method increases your render times.
Can you show a screen shot of your actual render settings? Sometimes things like raytrace bounces and other settings get messed up and this can add to your render slow downs.
You might also try progressive rendering. If you try progressive rendering, the first time through by the app won't look very good but that's because it's just a rough render pass. It will make progressive passes until it's done unless you cancel the render.
Here's something to try. Load the figure, apply the texture and layers you want. Save this as a layered image preset. This is found in the Save As command under the File drop down. This should save it as a .dsi file. Instead of deleting the figure, create a new scene. This should clear out the undo and free up resources. Reload the figure and apply the layered image preset. Pose, add the lights and props and render. See if this method increases your render times.
Can you show a screen shot of your actual render settings? Sometimes things like raytrace bounces and other settings get messed up and this can add to your render slow downs.
You might also try progressive rendering. If you try progressive rendering, the first time through by the app won't look very good but that's because it's just a rough render pass. It will make progressive passes until it's done unless you cancel the render.
The problem is that it slows down navigating in the DAZ Studio menu to a crawl and has nothing to do with even rendering anything. Once I load up more than one of the "L.I.E." layers it slows my system down to a crawl and I end up waiting several minutes just to open folders and continue to navigate..
I do appreciate your attempt to help me find a solution but I have one that works wonderfully for me. The only question is if DAZ is going to be my skin supplier or if I have to continue to purchase them from vendors like _Fenrissa_ and several others that make realistic skins.
I like DAZ and I'm hoping they still have a few open minded people that will hear my request for a product and answer it.
I think the problem is you're after too many specifics. It has nothing to do with realism, or the lack thereof, in Daz skins, but more that you are looking for a very specific style of skin. If other vendors provide what you need then that's just fine, but Daz vendors are more likely to aim for the ones which sell a bit better making more niche markets like yourself a less profitable avenue.
Anyway, as icprncss mentioned, you don't need to use the LIE to get layered effects. You can do it in an external program and simply use the new loaded image in place of the texture you would normally use. I personally prefer this method as it gives one skin countless different uses rather than needing too many skins for specific things. The benefit of the LIE, of course, is that you can have two figures in a scene using the same base texture but with different blemishes. This is useful for siblings or otherwise related figures where using two different textures will appear jarring.
True but nobody says you can't use a combination of all the techniques... except the people who insist on LIE only. All of us are a nitch market. Here is the thing... I believe if given a choice people will naturally always gravitate towards the more realistic skins and objects because whether you like it or agree with it, we live in a culture of instant gratification and if DAZ doesn't do everything possible to stay as relevant technologically as possible, we already know from competing characters like Dawn that the market place will continue to innovate.
Nobody wants to feel like they are making sub-standard art as compared to everybody else.. I would think we all want to be on the cutting edge of what we do. Just my opinion. :)
Does the LIE problem happen with all LIE products or just certain ones? How many layers in the LIE can you apply before you hit system slow down?
Some LIE products are fairly simple and light weight. Others are large and resource intensive. The product you linked to each tattoo you apply is 4096 x 4096. Those are pretty high resolution.
Have you updated your video card drivers? If you go into the help menu and click on about your graphics card (or something like that), you should get the specs and info on your video card. Does your system have a separate graphics card or are you using an integrated chip?
If your video is integrated, it shares memory with the rest of system which can lead to slow downs as the view port redraws each time to make a change.
If you load a scene that you know slows the system down, pull up the task manager or some other monitor for memory allocation and useage, make even a slight change to the scene, what happens to memory allocation?
Without knowing your system specs or what else you might have running while you are using DS, I don't know how much help any of this is.
That's not to say there's no good textures elsewhere. Goodness knows I've purchased more than a few from other sites. And certainly, even baked textures have their uses now and then. I still use Kaelyn for K4, which has baked highlights. That said, I've been reducing the highlights with Photoshop on a lot of my textures and begun creating my own specular maps for many of them. It makes it far easier to use unbiased engines like Luxrender with those figures.
Blemishes can be made to work with any texture on any figure with or WITHOUT the LIE. They can be offered as optional extras or, as you seem to prefer, as a pre-made character. You can apply it as a preset or do some Photoshop work. There are countless ways to apply details which can save me having to buy a dedicated figure for the purpose.
As for Daz being staying relevant, I'd argue they're the current leaders when it comes to hobbyist content. They have easily some of the best PAs in the business publishing via their store and a strong eye for quality. It's very hard to find a low quality figure or model on the Daz store compared to rival stores, since their expectations and quality assurance are that much higher. Those you do find tend to be older items which were of a good quality for the time.
I'm not asking you to agree with anything I say, but I do think you need a stronger definition of the world 'realistic'.
No, that's not "the only question", because you're requiring us to accept a definition of "open minded" that translates to "accommodate whatever is outdated (or outright broken) about your system that is keeping you from being able to use what the rest of us are using successfully".
Personally, I want to see things go entirely the opposite direction that you do. Good realistic base skin texture, but young and effectively perfect. Layer to add creases and smile/frown lines appropriate to different ages. Layer(s) for freckles. Layer for moles. Layer(s) for scars. Layers for eye makeup, lips, blush. Layers for tats. Insane numbers of possible combinations.
SnowPhoenix, I think you are simply being to impatient with LIE. LIE is a 2D blending function, many 2D functions are linear in nature and do not benefit from multi-core processors. I also question your understanding of the technology you are using, both hardware and software.
Good direction to approach this. Snowphoenix, what are you running on? I just tried a test on my notebook, which is one of those utlrabooks, built to be thin and sexy, not for speed. Dual core 1.8Ghz i5, 4 gigs RAM, and it held together with Genesis and 6 layers of LIE. The UI remained real time, the rendering time didn't change I think DS "bakes" layered images into a single-layer temp image for rendering and possibly for the UI.
You aren't running 32 bit for some reason, are you?
I'm not asking you to agree with anything I say, but I do think you need a stronger definition of the world 'realistic'.
I find it interesting that nobody puts up a picture to show their definition of what is better and NOBODY has posted pictures that look better that is there own rendered with DAZ studio. If anything when looking at the post to follow they are insulting to me and questioning my ability to use my computer when I keep posting perfectly fine pictures that when shared on the competitions page, gets a five star rating.. when shared here in DAZ, gets mockery and condemnation.
I mean, look at you.. dictating to me that character skins I use 'are not realistic' just because I'm not falling in line with the going propaganda that characters need to be stripped down and GENERIC. You guys really should stop naming the characters and start calling them, "Caucasian girl number 32 for Gen 2 mesh" since there is nothing individual about any of the characters outside of the morphs. I already own white girl number 1 and 2, so I'll skip the rest of the series where all I need to do is adjust the character morphs.. I already own Zev0's morph tools, so I don't need all the generic skins... I'll keep buying skins from people that make individual characters.
You seem to be very confused. You've given yourself the label of a champion of realism yet utterly condemn techniques which are used frequently in truly lifelike images. You've constantly placed your own work on a pedestal that we should all kneel before and gaze at its majesty, despite all of the suggestions people have given you for improvements and criticisms leveled at your definition of 'real'.
In your own post "I can fool you", you began by insulting everyone and claiming your own images to be the epitome of realism. A point which you soon edited down when you discovered people posting far superior images. In fact, the first few pages of that post you were still trying to defend your position and argue down everyone else despite countless people trying to actually help you to learn. The same is true of many of your posts which touch on this same subject.
As I said before, those who don't want to learn can't be taught and you have clearly fallen into this trap. If you are happy with your work, I shall offer no further advice. I won't even give you my own personal opinion on your artwork, as I don't want this post to be misinterpreted as an attack. No, this is not an attack. This is advice.
My advice? Listen with an open mind if you truly want to learn, and avoid posting opinions as facts. This will be my last comment on the matter, and I shall refrain from future postings of a similar nature.
You know... It's interesting because you don't have to take just my word for it when I'm talking about great art... I went into DAZ's own gallery and looked for the first realistic render I could find and of course somebody I DEEPLY respect tells you like it is:
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/21709
To any of you artist... Seriously look at the promotional renders and if it doesn't look like a photograph, then why not? If you are skilled at making character skins, (which I am not) if you have that talent and the programs, please make me a similar character product that looks like actual people, please.
I gave up posting renders and galleries long ago (like back in the early days of P5) for two reasons. One, much of my work is owned by those who employ me to create said works. Two, it was not worth the time and aggravation chasing down tubers, taggers and others who were stealing my work and then laying claim to it as their own.
Art and whether it is good or bad is a subjective thing. What's the old adage? One man's trash is another man's treasure? If you like your work and are happy with what you create then go to town and enjoy the ride.
You mentioned a specific problem with DS. I made an effort to help you figure out what might be the cause of the issue. Since at present, you do not seem to care about trying to find a solution or work around for the problem, I'll just bow out.
Oh, and the render in the link you posted is done using the Lux render engine and Reality 2. It wasn't rendered in DS.
Very true that it was a combination of all the elements, no doubt. I couldn't agree with you more.
I've already done my work around and I'm extremely grateful that you offered your ideas.
It's funny you would say 'enjoy the ride' considering the project I'm working on at the moment but I usually stick my name on picks and I don't post my best pictures but thanks for being such a considerate person. Much respect and deep regards.
I will try to explain the 'baked in highlight' issue one more time using the simplest and admittedly extreme example possible.
I create and UV map a cube in Blender. I apply a procedural brick texture to the cube and set up simple spotlight to shine on the left corner of cube. I bake the procedural texture lights and shadows to a texture map. I import that cube in to Studio and apply baked texture. I set up simple spotlight to shine on the right corner of cube. The baked texture's highlights and shadows ruins any sense of realism as they will only look right when lighting is exactly the same as when the texture was baked.
Now take another look at that linked image and find the subtle mistakes in an otherwise fine image.
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/21709
This image? You really want to be critical of this image? Why?
Not many images, promo or otherwise, really look like photographs. Most of us aren't trying to make our renders look like photographs. Many of us, in fact, are aiming for a specific look that's very different from photorealism. It is possible to get photorealistic results from DAZ Studio/3Delight, (I think Hellboy, Lantios, DimensionTheory, and Age of Armour, to name a few, have either achieved it or come very close) but for various reasons most people who do like photorealism seem to prefer working with unbiased render engines like LuxRender or Octane. I do not consider any of your images--nor any of mine--to be truly photorealistic, but I do see both of us as progressing towards that point. :)
I don't really see the point in arguing over definitions of which products or whose renders are better, or what is more realistic, because everyone has their own ideas and preferences. In terms of renders, probably the closest thing to an objective opinion of what is "better" would be to look at the gallery and sort by the most popular images all time.You'll see that the best artists (or the ones with the most popular images, at any rate) use a variety of programs and skin textures from DAZ and other sites. I also tried searching the gallery for keyword "photorealism." There was only one result--ironically, it was an image of mine about which I stated that pure photorealism was not the goal. :lol: A search for realism was a little more helpful: I see M6, Bree, Rob, and Reby as well as some Danae and StudioArtVartanian characters, etc.
I'm not going to post an image in this thread because I don't have any that I'm really comfortable claiming "THIS is realism," (I'm proud of my work, but also well aware that I can't compete with the top artists here) though if you'd like to take a look at my work, my gallery and render thread are linked in my sig below).
One thing that the best artists have in common, I think, is that they look at products and ask, "How can I make the best use out of this," rather than, "Will this look great 'out-of-the-box?'" I'm making an effort to adopt that frame of mind and have seen my work improve as a result. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people like you and I have a lot of potential for improvement just with the products that we own already. After all, if they can do it, we can get there too. So keep on rendering, and best wishes! :)
"What do we know,” he had said, “of the world and the universe about us? Our means of receiving impressions are absurdly few, and our notions of surrounding objects infinitely narrow. We see things only as we are constructed to see them, and can gain no idea of their absolute nature. With five feeble senses we pretend to comprehend the boundlessly complex cosmos, yet other beings with a wider, stronger, or different range of senses might not only see very differently the things we see, but might see and study whole worlds of matter, energy, and life which lie close at hand yet can never be detected with the senses we have. I have always believed that such strange, inaccessible worlds exist at our very elbows."
— H.P. Lovecraft
http://youtu.be/CL5htSOieRI Mooove Over
With
。☆。*。☆。
★。＼｜／。★
☆-- Loved --☆
★。／｜＼。★
。☆。*。☆。
You guys talking about older styles got me thinking about looking around some more... You know when I go through the archive in this I don't tend to find these. Some of these look like they have real potential.
http://www.daz3d.com/vanessa-for-v4
And this one I saw as a result of looking around at some of my favorite artist gallery:
http://www.daz3d.com/anna-marie-goddard-digital-clone
I mean, come on... this render is simply BRILLIANT.
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/19285
Where have you been all my life?
I've got to shoot a big thank you out to Raiya for the character "Felicity HD". I think she's my favorite character to date. Finally a sister with some excellent details to her.
Thank you for making an EXCELLENT character.
http://www.daz3d.com/new-releases/felicity-hd-for-victoria-6