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+ yeah, that Could be of Interest _ 50
cuppa steamyhot tea
earl grey? jasmine?
yorkshire.... but is it as good as Bushells
a cxake is only as good as it's frosting,
or filling 
canolli 
I feel the challenge should showcase what can be done with the software as well as artist's talent so create and render in Carrara only - no post processing or tools not available to all.
So keep rules it simple.
Stezza's idea to use a common object available to all is a good one. Provides a basis for comparison even if presented in different scenarios [according to artist imagination]
Use a feature of Carrara - or one of the free plugins .
Some ideas A foggy day / Scene featuring camera 'depth of field' / Sunset over mountains / Action featuring ' blur ' / House on fire ! / Scene featuring particles
So if I can summarize here, you would like a rule where everyone uses a common object, and no postowrk? I tend to like no postwork for my stuff, but then again I use the GMIC plugin which is not available to Mac users (if I remember correctly).
For me the postwork/no-powerwork debate always seems like gatekeeping.
It comes down to what you think the purpose of the challenge is.
For me postwork is fine because it's about having fun and showing off how Carrara can be a central part of the "art" making process. Restricting images to no-postwork makes it a more purely "technical" Carrara challenge: what do you know how to do in Carrara that your machine can handle in the time you have available?
Making something within artificial restrictions can inspire creativity, but it can also kill it because some people simply don't have the time to do endless rerenders making tweaks to shaders and poses and pokethrough when that can all be done in postwork in seconds or minutes.
A perfect example is the "foggy day" scenario - I know about six different ways to do that in Carrara and all of them slow my render times so much that most months I would not be able to use them because I don't have time. Or I can create a couple render passes from Carrara in no extra time at all and add that same fog effect in postwork in 10-15 minutes and do it much more precisely than I could reasonably do it in Carrara (Carrara is capable of it, but again, I don't have time for all the rerenders needed to tweak effects like that "in scene.").
_ 'Used To' like these _Bigelow Tea Company
_ and thanx 4 the Yellow Submarine++
I think that your way of looking at things is perfectly reasonable. For me, I don't see how it differentiates Carrara from any other software platform, if a lot of the final result is done in postwork. For that reason, in a Challenge I prefer doing everything in Carrara if possible, and showing its capabilities to the nth degree.. And yes, that sometimes means laboriously tweaking things that could be done in postwork much faster. If I was doing renders for something other than the Carrara Challenge - for example, a paying customer deadline - I wouldn't hesitate to do it quicker in postwork.
I find postwork in general to be awesome. For my witch render in the last Challenge, the postworked cigarette smoke really helped a bunch. There are solutions for cigarette smoke in Carrara, but nothing that looks so realistic.
As for fog, I've tried a lot of different fog effects in postwork, but the Carrara fog often looks more authentic and consistent. So, it is worth the extra trouble. Than again, you are probably more skilled at postwork than me. :)
I mentioned this in a different thread.
What do you think of postponing the Challenge for a few weeks and focusing instead on the It's Raining Men contest?
It is open to users of any software, and it even has a Carrara category. My thinking is that it would be nice to show off Carrara in the context of a larger outside contest..
We could even do our own Raining Men WIP thread.
personally, not doing the raining men
Reason?
sounds kinda boring.
last time i looked at one of those raining, expected a bunch of hot dude pin ups,was dissapointed and never looked again, dohh
Fog or not to Fog [ in carrara ]
I have used Fog a few times and dont recall any particular horrendous render time [ that for me means more than a minute per frame with all options on ]. Shadows increase render imes signicantly
My machine is a humble 3 year old laptop GTX760m / i7 4700MQ /16gb ram
Yes you are right # Mystic3D " It comes down to what you think the purpose of the challenge is." For me its about what we can do with the software rather than producing a work of art - ie showcasing the artist.
Well, then it's up to you to show them how it's done. :)
And I think the majority agrees with you, which is why my participation has dwindled the last couple years. Art is a hobby for me that lets me forget the technical challenges of my day-to-day for a while, but I have very limited time to spend on it, and just can't justify "wasting" the half a weekend I have for it in a month in order to to sell software. When I participate it's because I had an artistic idea I liked and creating the image I had in my mind is my goal, not just showing off how much I know about the functions of one program.
I'm not arguing that we should be able to do "a lot" of the result in postwork. The images should always be mainly done in Carrara, otherwise it wouldn't be a Carrara challenge. I just don't think that forcing people to spend hours tweaking shaders to get the exact right color or effect the want is reasonable - we all know that can be done in Carrara - it can be done in any program, but getting it "good enough" in Carrara and doing the last color and lighting adjustments in post saves me hours of time on a typical image and I don't see how that takes away from Carrara at all.
RE: Postwork vs Not Postwork in Monthly Challenges
Personally, I like variety. Some challenges allow postwork. Some don't. Some have had separate categories. Of those that have allowed postwork, most have required posting the original render(s) with a brief explanation. On the back end, some voters prefer no-postwork and some don't. I like leaving it up to the challenge host and the voters.
Carrara has options for a variety of multi-pass renders, most of which only make sense as an aid to postwork.
I prefaced all my comments with "I think that your way of looking at things is perfectly reasonable."
I think that you may have missed that part. :) I also think that "the majority" agrees with you, and not me or 007. Based on multiple questions I have asked on this topic in the past, most artists on this forum use postwork for almost everything, including the Challenge. Vyusur is a notable exception. She and I take an almost perverse pleasure in getting the last ounce out of Carrara. :)
Further, I think that we have moved past the days of "forcing" an artist to use no postwork, or to only use a single function in the Challenge. At most, there may be a category which has such a restriction, but there will also be other categories where specific functions are not required.
There are two sides to every coin. I think that my position is just as reasonable as yours. The respective positions fit our personalities, I think.
Still seeking feedback:
I mentioned this in a different thread.
What do you think of postponing the Challenge for a few weeks and focusing instead on the It's Raining Men contest?
It is open to users of any software, and it even has a Carrara category. My thinking is that it would be nice to show off Carrara in the context of a larger outside contest..
We could even do our own Raining Men WIP thread.
Added note. Headwax won't be back for at least 5 weeks. Diomede and I may be stopped or slowed because of new machine issues. Any other regular contributors out there who are also out-of-pocket for a while?
Does not worry me either way, but I already have 3 renders ready to roll for the Raining Men.
Would be good to have everyone on board for the challenge though, with the people listed who may be out that makes a bit of a hole in the challenge.
EDIT: If held later than need to consider impact of Christmas on numbers as well.
maybe have Carrara Challenge over December and January
Sounds like a good idea !
@UB
Raining men has no interest for me. If you are hosting and want to wait because of time commitments, holidays, or whatever, that is cool.
As to having moved past the days of "forcing" an artist to use a Carrara function, I think you missed the point of the requirement, and that there were almost always a choice of requirements. Personally, I think the most interesting challenges were when we needed to focus on getting outside our comfort zones and using a tool we weren't familiar with, be it deformers, primitives, spline modeler, etc. I know if I were to host again, I would consider a feature or function that I am not that familiar with as a requirement.
The original purpose of these challenges was to showcase how powerful Carrara can be with the idea of attracting new users, to help educate new and veteran users of Carrara about the rich feature set and to hopefully get people to try something new and break them out of their comfort zone. Personally, I saw the requirements of using a lesser known or not commonly used function to help level the playing field between new users and veteran users and at the same time take a learning journey together. The other advantage of using these features was that it highlighted features Carrara had that Studio did not have or could not do.
OK, thanks for the feedback.
Actually, I completely agree with you. :) But I didn't even bring up this point, so thanks. In addition, I have found that requiring myself to do renders with no postwork has forced me to try new things in Carrara in order to find solutions. In other words, instead of immediately trying to fix something in postwork (my comfort zone) I work to find a solution in Carrara. From that mindset, I have discovered some amazing things through trial and error that I probably wouldn't have found any other way.
However, there are artists who aren't interested in the function part of the Challenge. They just want to do art, and often complain bitterly about function requirements. I think that we can continue to accomodate both points of view by offering different categories in each Challenge.
Thanks Bunyip! I haven't even started on Raining Men yet. :)
Hey, that might work, thanks! Also, the 50th will then be two months rather than 5-6 weeks. Extra special. :)
I've just read through this topic and seen a bunch of good suggestions. For reasons of time I'm unlikely to be able to participate but have often thought that the theme of 'The Big Parade' would be a good challenge.
A parade could be Sportsmen/women, Cheerleaders, Ants, Elephants, Children playing or Fairy Folk, Festival Floats, etc. - all for a big celebration.
I found the ending of the Film 'The Music Man' on You Tube and it shows the fun side of a parade that I'm suggesting. I like it even though it's a bit dire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBQWsBiM5YY
+ could be alright ,, then _
i'm home on staycation thanksgiving week. (next week)
if i could atleast know the theme, could do a couple challenge renders on my staycation??
Good point. Even if the deadline is pushed back, can't think of a reason not to share the theme.
Haven't thought about narrowing down the next Challenge theme yet, as RL has intruded, and I haven't done a serious render since the witch. Thinking that 3 categories will be good. It's still early, but is is probably safe to say that one of the categories will have something to do with the number 50, and another category will be similar to the first Challenge (Welcome to my Garden). In the latter, Carrara terrain will likely be a requirement. We need to get our terrain mojo going before we tangle with Bryce in May, assuming that happens. :)