Am I The Only One Who’s Ticked Off?
kj_54e8eded70
Posts: 29
Am I the only one whose teed off at DAZ and its artists for virtually abandoning Genesis 1? Everything it seems is for Genesis 2, now - I waited quite a while before switching from Gen 4 to Genesis just to see what would happen. I finally did and have been pretty happy with it (especially the Gen X options and auto-fit - not perfect, but close enough for what I do).
Within a few months, they introduced Genesis 2, and now it seems everything is for that. Sorry - I'm NOT upgrading again...
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Moved to the Commons as it's not a Welcome post.
I see, if I didn't lose count, 17 [products that support Genesis on the first page of New Releases. Some also support Genesis 2, and therea re also Genesis 2-only items, but the original Genesis is certainly not without support at this stage.
I would use gen 1 a lot more if it had a HD add-on.
Is anyone actually paying attention to the new products being released?
I'm not ticked off. Just resigned. :-( I've been around here long enough to know that this is the modus-operandi. Planned obsolescence. Keep 'em buying the same things over and over and over. Technology improvements are often sited as the reason for the change. But whatever the excuse, this is the reality.
Does it pain your wallet? You bet your sweet axe it does. I stopped buying seriously when Genesis1 came out and am quite satisfied with the huge catalog of V4/M4/F4 and D3 items. Your mileage may vary.
I stopped buying Genesis 1 items unless they come with V4/M4 versions or are drastic morphs like what you see from Rawart or Joequick.
It seems to be that's where it may be heading. Gen4/Genesis 2 for humans, and Genesis for beasties.
Ahh, I didn't know they were working on HD for gen 1, can't wait
Like LG posted, it's the way of things here at DAZ. DAZ is now on it's sixth generation of Vicki and Mike. Like the split between Generation 4 and Genesis, you will see a split between Gensis and G2F/M. Not to the same degree but still a split. Mainly due to the gender split.
Will DAZ themselves do any HD for the Genesis? I doubt it. They'll likely keep putting everything into the newer generation. That doesn't mean PA's who have access to the HD tech won't use it on Genesis.
I tend to buy what I think I can use, without too much concern for generations or what figure it's for. You can fit gen 4 stuff to Genesis 1 and 2, and you can fit Genesis 2 stuff to Genesis 1. It is a little tedious to have to buy PA products to achieve this, but they're well worth it in my opinion. (Special thanks to SickleYield, there!) And as far as non-DAZ stores go (Rendo, RDNA, etc.), I rarely saw them support Genesis very much, but you see new stuff for Genesis 2 and Gen 4 all the time. More figures = more versatility and more options.
To me Genesis is still the Everything I need it to be figure, Genesis 2 Female the better quality female and Genesis 2 Male the better quality male. I can not do my type of art without using all 3 and for fun I still use Generation 4 and other figures were they fit in. As far as I can tell I still see stuff getting done for all figures I support. I can see the new figures needing content so content gets done to make them as useful as Genesis. That is all I see.
And as I said before Genesis has HD already http://www.daz3d.com/creature-from-the-depths-hd
I was really hacked off when GF2 first arrived and I didn't do anything with her till GenX was about to come out for GF2. I still love genesis 1, but if I need a female character,. I tend to go with GF2 because I can still use my custom V4 morphs like I did with genesis 1, but there are quite a few small details that make GF2 a bit more feminine IMO than the same custom morphs with genesis 1.
I don't know, M6 looks pretty decent but unfortunately the one important character that I use is on M4 and his morphs do not transfer over well to Genesis 1. Now if he transfers over to M6 then I'll spend more money on Gen 2 male, but I haven't gotten that far yet in buying for it.
Now the Gen 2 female just isn't anything of interest to me. V4 has more to work with so I will stick with her.
Also just a strange off the wall observation but; if you look at characters for the older figures, I'm talking pre Gen 4, the facial features seem to be more distinct and unique? What happened? And why couldn't that be done for Genesis?
Genesis is perfect for beasties and not so natural types, Gen 2 male/M6 could be useful but not without yet another monetary sacrifice, and Gen 2 female/V6 are just not that much better to cause me to flip for it.
Yet with all of the newer customers out there I don't think Daz is going to worry much about their older products, or the ones who use them. Eventually they will phase them out and move on.
At first I was a bit miffed, as well, (The old forums were filled with my yammering complaints!) until I found out that with a bit of light work they are completely backwards compatible (G1->G2) so every piece of clothing/morphs from Gen3 on up towards Gen5 can be applied towards Genesis 2!
To be fair with Daz, it is rare that a software company would let you have so much backwards capabilities without completely bilking you of all your entire bank account!
Just take a look at Autodesk and Vue with their yearly license charges!....And seeing as both characters are free (With exception for G3-G4 add-ons) You really don't need to upgrade much at all, I'm flat broke so I really don't have a choice in the matter anyways! ;)
Is there anything for A3?
(I've never believed in stopping using something that still works just because there's something newer.)
What is it that tees you off precisely about focusing on the latest figure generation. Are you wanting more ONLY genesis, more of different selections? What about V5, M4 & M5 and other unique uv's? What really differentiates Genesis, G2F, G2M and perhaps V4 products that tees you off? You can mix and match all in a scene.
The way I see since FBX, OBJ and DAE export makes 3d figures "generic" for future format rendering systems. Therefore the ability for DS to export content for personal use in such formats protects most content from obsolescence. While not as convenient as the latest native format, the standard formats at least deliver 50% of value.
I always want to see the industry moving forward and content developers use the latest technology. What comes tomorrow does not damage yesterday's investment unless it involves a Windows update. ;)
I like aspects of genesis one, like the unisex quality, men's heads and pecs. But I prefer gen 2 females and males because the bodies look more real to me.
I'm not surprised at the quanity of Genesis 1 stuff being on the decline, but I hardly think it's "over"... yet. There will, eventually, come a time when Genesis 1 stops being supported, but with critters being easier with Genesis 1 (because then the artist doesn't have to worry about it being male or female only), I think it is going to be a while.
I use the figure that best suits the project. For things like my Exalted game, that's Genesis 1 (So that I can just swap a few dials and keep features similar between their first age and age of sorrows characters, even if they switch genders). For other projects, that's Genesis 2. The only thing I'm hesitant on, and I have been since the switch from Mil 3 to Mil 4, is mixing generations with couples. And even then, if that's what suits best, that's what I'll do.
Polygon count.
Genesis is lower poly and just looks good because of Subdivsion - which makes it more difficult to get more distinct facial features.
Each new figure brings advancements in technology. There's nothing wrong with wanting to promote the newest figure, and there is still a wealth of content being released for the older figures even today (Yes, even Gen4).
The Generation 4 figures were great for their time, but it only takes me two minutes of playing around to see the huge limitations in their use. Clothes which don't fit properly because of differing body shapes, Extreme morphs are prohibitively difficult to make them look good, and bends often need additional morphs to look natural.
Genesis is a great figure too, but lacks detail due to its lower polygon count making it far less expressive than other figures. Luckily, Genesis is backwards compatible with Gen4 items and also FORWARDS compatible with Genesis 2 figures with the purchase of the clone figure.
Genesis 2 combines what was great about Gen4 with Genesis. Detailed figures, but with weight mapped technology making bends look a lot better. Clothes which morph dynamically based on the underlying figure. Genesis 2 is also backwards compatible with Genesis clothing and V4/M4. It's the latest, and therefore has the newest features, so naturally it will be the one which most people are happier to develop for.
Now consider that Genesis 2 and Genesis are both free with Daz Studio... which is also currently free. Generation 4 figures are paid for. There's literally nothing preventing people from using the latest figures alongside older figures. There is content being released for all 3 generations still.
Sooner or later it will not be supported, that much is guaranteed. But I don't see many people complaining that we're not still supporting Generation 1 or Generation 2 figures. Why? Because people have embraced the new advances in both polycount and functionality. Why have less for more when you can have more for less?
I started rendering Daz products about ten years ago. Back then, if you wanted to convert V2 clothing to work with V3, you had to know how to re-rig it. V3 also came with an additional figure that had a V3 head and a V2 body so that she could still wear older clothing. That was the best you were going to get unless you were willing to do the conversion by hand yourself.
It was really, really exciting to see Wardrobe Wizard developed! People were dressing Freak 3 in a tutu or slinky camisoles. But the conversion was a rough process with many issues, and it was a fairly long learning process to work out how to use WW to get the best results.
So, with that experience, the interchangeability of the Genesis figures and clothing is truly amazing to me. Having to buy a couple of extra products to use two entire generations of additional content, including body textures and clothing? Wow!
If we'd been ticked off enough back then about too much new content being developed for the newest figures, you'd be using V2. :D :D
Second former speaker! And if they manage to fix the problems with feetwear it's going to be even better!
I am always ticked of, but not about this. :)
I feel Genesis is getting less support than it used to. Most stuff is for Gen2F and Gen2M, V4 is quite fine too. That's funny: a lot of female character sets support V4 and Gen2F, but not Genesis! Crazy, considering the fact Genesis and Gen2F should have more in common than V4 and Gen2F.
I am still waiting for Gen2K (Genesis 2 Kids). Growing Up sets don't give enough realistic results for me.
Well said.
Well said.
It isn't a matter of commonality. Vendors who offer G2F and V4 versions in a product are covering as many sales bases as they can. G2F is the latest DAZ figure for those who are using the latest DS versions and the latest DAZ figures. V4 covers those who are not using the latest versions of DS or any version of DS.
When the G2 line was announced last year, they talked of going back to the gender split. There was no mention made of an age split. Gen 4 was the last generation with a gender/age split. DAZ has always maintained that males do less well than the females and the kids to even worse. Hard to say what DAZ will do but I would think if an age split had been planned, it would have been mentioned.
Polygon count.
Genesis is lower poly and just looks good because of Subdivsion - which makes it more difficult to get more distinct facial features.
Thank you, that has been on my mind for some time actually. Characters for the older figures seem more raw to me, as time moved on they started becoming cookie cutter types and I thought it was just vendor preference.
Back on topic, I am thrilled to see M6. I bought into him and I love him, now when I pay to get all his shiny upgrades I hope to see the vendors pay him a little more attention than they ever paid with M4. I know that there are vendors who were all about M4 and I have about all of their products, kind of excited to see what they do for this new guy on the block.
I guess my one complaint is that Genesis is a great figure and after spending all of that money on it to get all the upgrades to make him compatible with my overwhelming runtime it's a little upsetting that I have to do that all over again not much after for this new guy. To be frank I would have rather bought the Genx morphs sets and the M4 clothings fits for M6 then Genesis just because I intend on using M6 as my main man. Now I pretty much have spent money on products that I will not use, which is my fault for thinking of Genesis as being the big thing for some time, and that is not what is happening.
Gen "OMG" better be at least a few more years in the making so I can maybe get a little more product for M6 before he goes in the way that all the others are heading.
To be honest with I was a bit annoyed about Gen 2. It's debatable whether Gen 2 looks more realistic. I've seen some characters that are stunning and others that are stunningly hideous. More so than anything I've seen with Gen 1. As I've hardly played with Gen 1 and see minimal improvements for my purposes I've chosen not to upgrade.
On the clothing front I'm not too annoyed. It's seems to be rehash of the same old boring skimp wear with very few items for men.
Genesis isn't going anywhere. Look how long the M4 and V4 have been around. And one of the forum sections has freebies which I assume has Genesis items?
The Growing Up morphs work wonders with both Genesis and Genesis 2, and are my go-to choice for kids figures now. Genesis 2 especially, since kids NEED that expressiveness which is lost in Genesis classic. The lower polygon count is where Genesis really hurts when working with youths, and sadly that's something that cannot be fixed no matter how many morphs you throw at it.
The lack of a 'basic child' option with G2F was what originally put me off the idea of Genesis 2. A lot of the customization I had done in Genesis relied on this very basic slider as it could do so much more than just making children. It could help round off features and scale appropriately for slightly younger adults. It felt like a gaping hole, until Zev0 filled the gap with the Growing Up morphs.
That said, Genesis 2 won me over on its own merits before I even picked up those morphs. My concerns were levelled at the gender-split and compatibility worries, all of which have now been addressed through various add-ons or inclusions. I took the plunge and bought Victoria 6 and I've not really looked back since. Now virtually all of my figures are Genesis 2, with the exception of a few shapes which don't work well on the new mesh.
But in the end, it's just another means to an end. If Genesis works fine for you, then there's no reason to stop using it. Everyone will have their own preference, but as technology presses forwards, new figures will be released and we'll play this game all over again with Genesis 3 :D
I'm looking forward to it.
You're right, I love playing with dials. Actually, it's Young Teens I refer to instead of Basic Child, which is a bit... well, hideous? :coolgrin:
There are not so many K4 characters and most I found look quite the same. There are even fewer YT sets. That's why I started making my own and they work just fine for me, although it takes time to make a shiny. Another thing is I rely on Thorne's resource kits, which are perfect for getting expressive AND young characters. Things I saw rendered with Growing Up for Gen2F have too sharp noses and mouths for me. But I watch your DA gallery and honestly, you're the wonderful exception from this rule: every child render you make, be it K4, Genesis or Gen2F/Gen2M, looks gorgeous.
I feel the same. The point is, the HD option looks a bit too exaggerated, sorry. I agree there are beautiful ones and hideous ones. I adore the look Bellatrix (http://www.daz3d.com/bellatrix-for-genesis-2-female-s) has and HD would do wonders for retired 3D people. On another hand, some sets for Gia are horrible for me, but I guess if they sell, then good for the vendor. Of course, the majority is medium-levelled. A lot have those worn-out apple-like faces and "voluptuous" bodies, you recognise the type...
Or very striking women like Roxi, Connie or Sierra. The same vendor. The same "chiseled" looks.
In my opinion, it does have a lot to do with vendor preference. Some vendors simply gravitate to doing a lot of characters in similar styles so if they sell well it does affect how the market is viewed.