When items will be removed from the shop...
ruekaka
Posts: 346
please give your customers a note before (at least to the ones who has this item on their whishlist) so they will have a last chance to buy it.
:blank:
Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
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What item in your wishlist was removed?
In this case it was the Skeleton King, an old item for the Version 3 skeletons, but it's not the first time that this happened.
and yet we still have Throne of the Skeleton King and Skeleton King Poses in the store. I really don't see the point of removing items. It's not like it is physical inventory and takes up warehouse space. maybe just create an archive store section and place older items in there
Well, it does take up space.. server space, but in this case it's irrelevant since the files still have to remain to allow customers who bought them to download them. The only thing they removed was the store page, which is pointless.
I've seen the new life people can breathe into old content, and it's pretty good.
As an aside, Throne of the Skeleton King I don't think actually goes with the Skeleton King, but rather has a similar name. None of the promos display the king in the chair.
That reminds me. I hope we're not in for another vaulting any time soon... ._.
I'd say that it's almost inevitable, unfortunately. Given the way that the 80% sales have been running non-stop, that implies that either there's already been little market for those products, or that there's bound to be a huge drop in demand for that older Gen 4 product in the aftermath, since the existing customer base will have mined it pretty heavily and a good chunk of the non-Genesis focused customers don't shop here as often anymore.
That said, there are SOME products that really should be vaulted. Like all the products that are DS3 only and aren't ever going to be upgraded (like Dreamlight's Lightdome 2, MovieMaker, etc.,) products that now come as a basic part of DS4 like LIE, and redundant older versions of programs Clothes Converter, Pegasus, etc., where the older versions are being sold for the same price as the new ones.
And if DAZ really wants to save on some storage space, isn't it about time that all the Unimesh fit bundles get wrapped into the products they're associated with?
I'd say that it's almost inevitable, unfortunately. Given the way that the 80% sales have been running non-stop, that implies that either there's already been little market for those products, or that there's bound to be a huge drop in demand for that older Gen 4 product in the aftermath, since the existing customer base will have mined it pretty heavily and a good chunk of the non-Genesis focused customers don't shop here as often anymore.
True, however, let's not for get that it's because of the non-Genesis side of the community is why Gen 4 is still pretty significant both here and places like Renderocity. From what I hear, V4 even out matches Dawn be quite a bit, and not just because she has more years of content support.
I think the vaulting of PA content is up to the PAs - and if they don't want to give notice ...
DazOriginals ... up to now we DID get notice that things will get vaulted (and it was only once and I sure hope never again - Luke and Laura (Young Teens) are still in the store, but Daz vaulted their morphs ... ugh)
The Skeleton King was by ravnheart and toxicangel ...
And historically it's less drama to just remove it than announce its removal. If a PA announces it, then people argue about wanting it to stay, wanting a extra discounted price on it, etc. I think the point is if old items have been sitting on your wishlist for years, it's something you really don't want and it's ok to remove.
And historically it's less drama to just remove it than announce its removal. If a PA announces it, then people argue about wanting it to stay, wanting a extra discounted price on it, etc. I think the point is if old items have been sitting on your wishlist for years, it's something you really don't want and it's ok to remove.
:-P
And maybe you are just waiting for a sale to get it at a price you can afford ...
And don't give me the annual PA sale when at the last day EVERYTHING is 50% - on that day I simply can't decide what to buy and end up with not buying anything at all.
I liked Stonemason's warning ... and I don't like artists that are doing it without a warning.
I CAN vote with my wallet.
If a product has been in the store so long that it is ready to retire, then it has probably been through many many sales and discounts, and if after so many years of not being bought...then it likely will never be bought, and is time to retire.
Realistically, a product should only remain in the store long enough that people would not have an issue buying it at full price if the want/need it. If it no longer has a full price value, then it should be retired.....BUT...we rarely do that here, we leave products in the store long enough that they actually lose value (due to having to keep up with new technologies being used). That type of thing is really bad business, it devalues any brand. Yet we still keep them just in case someone still wants them.
I have had times where i announced retirement of products, and i had other times where i didnt announce it. I think that not announcing it is actually the better route. When I did announce it, people get worked up and want it done this way or that way with this or that discount, and there ends up no way to please everyone. So it is a bit of a nightmare. But when I dont announce it....no one really notices, no one gets worked up, and there are no hard feelings.
So unless I am doing a mass culling...it is doubtful that I will say things.
If something doesnt sell, it doesnt sell, and has no business being in the store.
Well - I did buy things in the last sale I had not seen before ...
http://www.daz3d.com/aphrodite-hair <--- because I love hair<br /> http://www.daz3d.com/cs-caterpillar <--- because I have never seen a caterpillar which is ok for commercial renders<br /> http://www.daz3d.com/cattitude <--- because I only got Melody shortly ago</p>
Unfortunately, I don't make things so they can be steeply discounted or wishlisted. I won't continue business if I don't make money doing it. I try to make things affordable so you can get them throughout the year. If it isn't something that you won't get through several sales cycles then it's something that should be removed from the store.
And Rawart pretty much summed up what I said before, and I won't announce my removal of items from the store as well for the same reasons.
I've also been thinking about this, and RawArt's views on it make the most sense.
Looks like the views of PAs and Customers are not really matching ...
At another place they do regularly clear the store of older products - and that is leading to questions like: where did you get that hair/character/prop? and the answer it's not available anymore. This would have led to a sale, if the thing in question had been still available ...
That is not an accurate deduction of the situation either. First of all, PA's are customers too, and we are well aware of how we shop as customers. So that also has to be taken into account.
What also has to be taken into account is the number of people for which this is actually an issue. You cannot get an accurate account of this by seeing a couple of people posting in the forums.
It is safe to say that 80% of a products sales happen in the first couple of weeks of release. Then you get an extra boost during the major pa sales events during the first year of the products release...then after that, it slows WAY down.
After like 5 years in the store, then the interest in that particular product would account to far less than 1% of any sales return. SO if it really isn't getting sales at that time, it is of no value in the store.
Also..if waiting for special sales and discounts would be a turning point for older products, then there should be a huge excitement for the PA products to be involved in the PC+ program. So we will see if that will give products a longer shelf-life.
The PC+ is giving the 30% which you get on new releases - not more ... so it's not exactly special.
The only thing that may help is the 6$ PA coupon.
Not what you want to hear, I am quite sure ...
But most people here are hobbyists with a limited amount of money.
Edited to add: sorry, I don't want to be contrary, it's just that I KNOW I am buying older stuff.
Additionally things like having textures for items in the store that got vaulted are not exactly sensible to me.
And the base figures and characters for them, but the basic morphs for them being vaulted ...
That is not an accurate deduction of the situation either. First of all, PA's are customers too, and we are well aware of how we shop as customers. So that also has to be taken into account.
What also has to be taken into account is the number of people for which this is actually an issue. You cannot get an accurate account of this by seeing a couple of people posting in the forums.
It is safe to say that 80% of a products sales happen in the first couple of weeks of release. Then you get an extra boost during the major pa sales events during the first year of the products release...then after that, it slows WAY down.
After like 5 years in the store, then the interest in that particular product would account to far less than 1% of any sales return. SO if it really isn't getting sales at that time, it is of no value in the store.
Also..if waiting for special sales and discounts would be a turning point for older products, then there should be a huge excitement for the PA products to be involved in the PC+ program. So we will see if that will give products a longer shelf-life.
Is THAT why I've been finding myself buying more Gen 4 products again? :ohh:
No, seriously, ever since I converted to the beta, I've actually started touching pre-Genesis content again and i could never understand why...
The thing is, there are definitely products that shouldn't be in the regular store anymore, either because they don't work properly with any current version of Poser or DAZ (the majority of Dreamlight's non-lighting and tutorial items, for example), or because they're just not well built by current standards (like some of the old V3 product that tends to burst at the seams when fit to Genesis.) On the other hand,there are some items that fill an ecological niche that no one else has ever bothered to fill and some nifty add-ons for products that no longer exist (like the DAZ camel,) that are now orphaned because their parent product is no longer available. I like the idea of an "old crap" vault with a "Let The Buyer Beware" sign on the front. Keep it separate so that those who do end up needing it can find the items if they need them, but make it intimidating enough that newbs don't find themselves stuck with a copy of MovieMaker, or buy a copy of something that's given away for free in the newer versions of the software, like the layered Image editor.
Just to be clear: I do not complain about removing items from the store, that's O.K. The only thing I complain about is that it happens without any notice. I understand that you (and others) are not willing to deal with the reactions of your potential customers on such an announcement but this could be handled by a clear procedure. (e.g. Inform people that has the item on their wishlist (only) and give let's say 6 weeks to buy it. It could, but must not necessarily, include a final sale). Just an item is on the wishlist for a longer time does not mean there's no interest anymore, it's just that other items are more important.
One would think there would be some money to be made in a Bargain Basement part of a store, but that doesn't fit in with the Communitiy's business model of constant New Bright Shinys...
And if that's the situation for years, then an item should be pulled because the interest isn't really there to keep an item in the store.
As I said, I agree with this. Remove it from the store if you can't sell it.
It's all just about customer care.
Personally I do not rely on any of these items, so it's not a big deal if an item is not longer available, but I prefer a shop that treat their customers as if they are important.
Again, no biggy, I started the thread just to give a feedback what I think could be made better.
As I said, I agree with this. Remove it from the store if you can't sell it.
It's all just about customer care.
Personally I do not rely on any of these items, so it's not a big deal if an item is not longer available, but I prefer a shop that treat their customers as if they are important.
Again, no biggy, I started the thread just to give a feedback what I think could be made better.
Well you see how these threads end up, so that's why we don't announce them. Just removing them is just less of an headache.
The comment below was copied from one of the earlier posts. (Sorry, I don't know the procedure to copy bits from the thread and make it clear where it came from).
"Well, it does take up space.. server space, but in this case it’s irrelevant since the files still have to remain to allow customers who bought them to download them. The only thing they removed was the store page, which is pointless."
Does this mean that if I buy something which is later discontinued, I can still download it if I have to switch to a different computer? Or am I just out of luck later on?
I sympathize with those who didn't get around to purchasing an item before it was dropped, but I'm more concerned about continued use!
Anything that you have purchased does remain in your Product Library for future downloads.
That's not how I use the wishlist either. In fact I use it the opposite of how you described it.
Add to that the difficulty managing the wishlist and it that is why things stay their so long. Why things you have already purchased remain in the list is beyond me. There are things in my wishlist for over a year that I have purchased since adding to the list. It takes a good long time to remove an item so I only do it when I am really really bored :)
That's not how I use the wishlist either. In fact I use it the opposite of how you described it.
Add to that the difficulty managing the wishlist and it that is why things stay their so long. Why things you have already purchased remain in the list is beyond me. There are things in my wishlist for over a year that I have purchased since adding to the list. It takes a good long time to remove an item so I only do it when I am really really bored :)
If you actually do "Add to Cart" from the wishlist, the item is removed from the wishlist. If you just happen upon the item product page and add to cart from the store, then the wishlist is not updated.
The wishlist is still better than bookmarking each product page, because you get to see at a glance which items from the wishlist are on sale. The ending-soon V4/M4 sale had some items I wanted and bought, but some wishlist items for V4/M4 never went on sale. There was a period a while back when the wishlist was pretty much broken, that "outed" a number of people who had hundreds of items there. That's not ideal, but I can see why they did it. Looking through 200 items beats scrolling through 1500 items during a major sale, or if you just can't remember that product name. I never had more than a couple of dozen items there, but one of those items completely broke it back then.
I just wish we had filters in the wishlist just like in Product Library. Filter by name, sort by price, sort by release date ...
And yet, no one there is expected to ask permission before can remove something. It not just older products that leave but also newer ones as well. Nor does everything go to a special discount bin or get discounted or any of that jazz. Many products go directly from full price to gone.
And if that's the situation for years, then an item should be pulled because the interest isn't really there to keep an item in the store.
Most of the items on my WL are ones that I find interesting, but not at that price. If they go on sale for what I feel they are worth to me, I buy them. If they never do, I don't. I've had Jim Burton's 'Day in the Office' for V3 there for years because It's not just worth $25 (or even $12.50) to me. If I looked and it was $6.00 one day, I'd buy it...