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When items will be removed from the shop...

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  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    WandW said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    ruekaka said:

    Just an item is on the wishlist for a longer time does not mean there's no interest anymore, it's just that other items are more important.

    And if that's the situation for years, then an item should be pulled because the interest isn't really there to keep an item in the store.

    Most of the items on my WL are ones that I find interesting, but not at that price. If they go on sale for what I feel they are worth to me, I buy them. If they never do, I don't. I've had Jim Burton's 'Day in the Office' for V3 there for years because It's not just worth $25 (or even $12.50) to me. If I looked and it was $6.00 one day, I'd buy it...

    So, then the product should be removed as you're not interested in it and it's several years old in age and tech. There shouldn't be a problem with the PA just removing the item if it's not selling.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,819
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    WandW said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    ruekaka said:

    Just an item is on the wishlist for a longer time does not mean there's no interest anymore, it's just that other items are more important.

    And if that's the situation for years, then an item should be pulled because the interest isn't really there to keep an item in the store.

    Most of the items on my WL are ones that I find interesting, but not at that price. If they go on sale for what I feel they are worth to me, I buy them. If they never do, I don't. I've had Jim Burton's 'Day in the Office' for V3 there for years because It's not just worth $25 (or even $12.50) to me. If I looked and it was $6.00 one day, I'd buy it...

    So, then the product should be removed as you're not interested in it and it's several years old in age and tech. There shouldn't be a problem with the PA just removing the item if it's not selling.
    That being the case, if it went into a Bargain Basement, or a closeout sale, the PA would make a few more dollars with essentially no additional effort. I picked up several items at the last $3.50 Clearance Item Sale at R'osity.....

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited July 2014

    WandW said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    WandW said:
    Male-M3dia said:

    ruekaka said:

    Just an item is on the wishlist for a longer time does not mean there's no interest anymore, it's just that other items are more important.

    And if that's the situation for years, then an item should be pulled because the interest isn't really there to keep an item in the store.

    Most of the items on my WL are ones that I find interesting, but not at that price. If they go on sale for what I feel they are worth to me, I buy them. If they never do, I don't. I've had Jim Burton's 'Day in the Office' for V3 there for years because It's not just worth $25 (or even $12.50) to me. If I looked and it was $6.00 one day, I'd buy it...

    So, then the product should be removed as you're not interested in it and it's several years old in age and tech. There shouldn't be a problem with the PA just removing the item if it's not selling.
    That being the case, if it went into a Bargain Basement, or a closeout sale, the PA would make a few more dollars with essentially no additional effort. I picked up several items at the last $3.50 Clearance Item Sale at R'osity.....

    Like it's been mentioned before, it's less hassle to simply remove the item to the store. Sometimes just like you feel it's not worth $25, it's probably not worth discounting an item for maybe one sale. Just removing it leads to no hard feelings or hassles with announcing removal of an item.

    Also the clearance sale at rendo isn't really clearance.. if you buy an item, it simply resets the clock on that item for the next clearance sale. I have one or two items that's been sitting in clearance for over a year and it still hasn't been removed from the store.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    it's probably not worth discounting an item for maybe one sale

    Then clearance it permanently, similar to RDNA's Real Deal section.
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    it's probably not worth discounting an item for maybe one sale

    Then clearance it permanently, similar to RDNA's Real Deal section.

    You kind of see why we just remove the items now; we're on page three of this thread and like Rawart said on page one what's being is discussed is precisely why just removing items is better. If an item is just removed, life goes on and no one notices or cares... it gets announced and we get pages and pages of discussion.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854
    edited December 1969

    As I said, I agree with this. Remove it from the store if you can’t sell it.
    It’s all just about customer care.

    That is exactly what it is when it is done here. Removing products from the store that no longer match the quality that you want to provide for the customers is showing that you care what the customers spend their money on and want them to get the best they can from you. Not something that is outdated or may not function as well as comparable products that have come out more recently.

  • DirewrathDirewrath Posts: 225
    edited December 1969

    This is kind of what happens when a store has a forum for customers to discuss their likes, and to the distaste of some, dislikes of the company and those involved.

    One thing happens when people wishlist items, you see there are hundreds of vendors of similar product in the stores that sale content like Daz. And when people have only a small lump of the money it would cost for them to purchase each and every item that they want they simply cannot buy everything at once, thus items get put in a wishlist. All in the hopes that one day that item is going to be wanted or needed much more then the thousands of other items that are in direct competition for that customer's wants.

    A wishlist is just that, a list of things that you wish you could purchase but do not have the money nor the sudden need to have at the moment.

    As for the removal of the items by the vendor.
    The vendors have the right to remove their items from the stores, like Rawn stated. And many do give their customers a warning just in case, but that is on their own terms and not mandatory. Also some vendors are kind enough to allow purchase of vaulted items for those who contact them with an interest, as long as they still have the files of course. ;)

    Yes it can be frustrating, but I would contact the vendor to see if they would be willing to still sell you the item in question.

    And as I can tell many of the posts in this particular thread are by the same person who complains that the threads run so long?
    Just a simple observation.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    direwrath2000 said:
    This is kind of what happens when a store has a forum for customers to discuss their likes, and to the distaste of some, dislikes of the company and those involved.

    One thing happens when people wishlist items, you see there are hundreds of vendors of similar product in the stores that sale content like Daz. And when people have only a small lump of the money it would cost for them to purchase each and every item that they want they simply cannot buy everything at once, thus items get put in a wishlist. All in the hopes that one day that item is going to be wanted or needed much more then the thousands of other items that are in direct competition for that customer's wants.

    A wishlist is just that, a list of things that you wish you could purchase but do not have the money nor the sudden need to have at the moment.

    As for the removal of the items by the vendor.
    The vendors have the right to remove their items from the stores, like Rawn stated. And many do give their customers a warning just in case, but that is on their own terms and not mandatory. Also some vendors are kind enough to allow purchase of vaulted items for those who contact them with an interest, as long as they still have the files of course. ;)

    Yes it can be frustrating, but I would contact the vendor to see if they would be willing to still sell you the item in question.

    And as I can tell many of the posts in this particular thread are by the same person who complains that the threads run so long?
    Just a simple observation.

    That last line sounds more like an attack than an observation, if I'm reading correctly.

  • nemesis10nemesis10 Posts: 3,417
    edited December 1969

    I confess I don't use wish lists and this discussion points out why they don't work for me. I think of the 3d market as one that is still following the rules of simple economics. When i go to the grocery store and I see cherries, I buy them if the price suits me or skip them if I don't think I want them, i don't buy them. Likewise, I would never put something on layaway if I never plan to buy it. i have no expectation that the supermarket should show them below cost or stock the in perpetuity. I keep hearing people say that the authors should sell the old products at some very low price with the premise that it is better to make a tiny bit of money than nothing. The authors counter that this tiny bit of money ends up being very expensive since they have to find a store that will sell the product and take a cut, while the author still has to provide the same support, deal with the same problems, and can never be quit of the product.
    My own advice is for customers to go through their wish lists and prune them down to realistic proportions. No vendor is going to stock everything forever and even Amazon doesn't make money from the "long tail". next, when there is a sale, like the current M4/V4 one, pay attention. The whole point of a wish list or bucket list etc... is to clear it.

  • Velvet GoblinVelvet Goblin Posts: 532
    edited July 2014

    I use the wishlist for items that catch my eye that I think I might want, but which I'll likely completely forget about if I don't have them logged somewhere. But I also clear out my wishlist on a regular basis, so things generally don't languish there forever.

    In the recent sales, I bought a ton of quite old stuff. It may not be up to snuff by today's standards, but being a Poser user, I'm perfectly happy with how well some of the older stuff works. I've also only ever directly contacted a vendor for help once (at Rendo) and the 3 sentence reply I got solved my problems instantly. So I don't think I'm a drain on vendor time. :D

    I was very happy to buy RawArt's Gen 4 giants and anthro characters, and indeed, I did wait until a very good sale came along. I almost feel guilty paying some of the prices I've been paying lately. And I suppose I can understand a vendor not wanting to keep a permanently discounted section of their catalog because it does alter customer expectations for prices on brand new items.

    But just as, once I've paid my money, I'm free to make whatever 2d art (that's legal) with the content I have, the vendor is free to choose when, if, and for how much they sell their products.

    I do sometimes feel a pang of empathetic pain when I see an addon product for an item that's no longer available, especially if the addon looks very good and has clearly involved a fair amount of work. It seems just a tad unfair to such vendors that they have very little hope of selling such an addon once the original is gone. But I suppose that's always the risk you take when you choose to support someone else's work.

    In any case, still up to the vendor. If they have no better reason for retiring a product than that they can't stand the promo pics showing up in their store, hey, that's their choice. And I expect they know more about the sales habits of their customers than those of us who aren't vendors do. So if they think old stuff needs to go, then, well.... it needs to go. And if they don't want to deal with the headache of announcing a product's departure, that's fair too.

    That said, if the idea of Daz opening up a possibly rotating (or even semi-permanent) "PC Classic" catalog of older PA items gets some support, I'd be very happy to see it.

    Post edited by Velvet Goblin on
  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 346
    edited December 1969

    You kind of see why we just remove the items now; we’re on page three of this thread and like Rawart said on page one what’s being is discussed is precisely why just removing items is better. If an item is just removed, life goes on and no one notices or cares… it gets announced and we get pages and pages of discussion.

    Don't be so afraid of your customers ;-)

    As I wrote before, If there's a clear exit procedure there's not much room for discussion.

    From a purely customer (and probably personal) point of view let me say that most of the answers here that describes why it's better to remove items without notice sounds like "We don't care what you think. If you are not happy, that's not our problem".

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    .... So making sure you don't let items sit on your wishlist for too long is the best solution. Wishlists should be for short term items, not long term.
    ....

    This definitely is the point of view of a PA ...
    *grin*

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited July 2014

    ruekaka said:
    You kind of see why we just remove the items now; we’re on page three of this thread and like Rawart said on page one what’s being is discussed is precisely why just removing items is better. If an item is just removed, life goes on and no one notices or cares… it gets announced and we get pages and pages of discussion.

    Don't be so afraid of your customers ;-)

    As I wrote before, If there's a clear exit procedure there's not much room for discussion.

    From a purely customer (and probably personal) point of view let me say that most of the answers here that describes why it's better to remove items without notice sounds like "We don't care what you think. If you are not happy, that's not our problem".

    And to be honest, from the other side it sounds the same too. That's why we don't announce it.

    It's up to vendor whether they announce it. Should they be obligated to discount it when it's removed? Absolutely not. This is where the hurt feelings come in and demands that maybe if the reduce they price more, people will buy it. That's why it's not announced, because as this thread shows, people want a extreme discount when it goes.. and maybe the vendor doesn't feel obligated to do so. Some vendors have a sentimental value to it that they'd rather just remove it than reduce that sentimental value. To be honest, what about our feelings? Some customers don't seem to mind hurting the Pas feelings, but we have to tiptoe around the issues so they don't feel offended. So if you see something gone, just chalk up as a dodged bullet from the vendor and a missed opportunity for the customer. That's the reality of keeping items on wish lists for too long.

    When I removed an item from my catalog due to low sales, I did so quietly. When people talked about me steeply discounting it, it had a sentimental value from the effort of putting together, so really it was an insult to ask me to steeply discount something that had that type of value. I rather had it removed from the store than discount that value. So no hard feelings, it's simply gone from the catalog without the hassle like what I see in this thread.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Slimer_J_Spud said:

    If you actually do "Add to Cart" from the wishlist, the item is removed from the wishlist. If you just happen upon the item product page and add to cart from the store, then the wishlist is not updated....

    I stopped moving things directly from my wishlist to the cart during the time of the bug that didn't show a warning that you previously purchased something ...

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    At another place they do regularly clear the store of older products

    And yet, no one there is expected to ask permission before can remove something. It not just older products that leave but also newer ones as well. Nor does everything go to a special discount bin or get discounted or any of that jazz. Many products go directly from full price to gone.

    First: there is a warning period, because those items are clearly labeled "Clearance" (in your wishlist too).
    Second: in the last years or so there have been frequent Clearance sales where items get discounted to $3.50 ...

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:
    ... If an item is just removed, life goes on and no one notices or cares... it gets announced and we get pages and pages of discussion.

    No one notices or cares? This thread started because somebody cared.
    No hard feelings? There ARE vendors I am not buying things from ...

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited July 2014

    Kerya said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    ... If an item is just removed, life goes on and no one notices or cares... it gets announced and we get pages and pages of discussion.

    No one notices or cares? This thread started because somebody cared.
    No hard feelings? There ARE vendors I am not buying things from ...

    No one noticed as this item was probably gone for a long time.

    No hard feelings because no one noticed that the time the item was gone because it wasn't announced so people could place demands on the vendors for discounts and the vendor decided not to discount.

    If you base your purchasing based on vendors choosing the least hassle of removing old products rather than the quality of the product, then those vendors probably aren't hurting for that sale as most people buy items because of quality, not drama.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 346
    edited December 1969

    And to be honest, from the other side it sounds the same too. That’s why we don’t announce it.

    O.K., but the difference is that I do not want to sell anything to you. (We use it as a joke in our office: "Programming would be so nice - if there weren't all the customers...")

    No one noticed as this item was probably gone for a long time.

    This particular one was removed only a view days ago. (But again the thread was meant as a more general feedback).

    No hard feelings because no one noticed that the time was gone because it wasn’t announced so people could place demands on the vendors for discounts and the vendor decided not to discount.

    You can remove the pressure on the PA by implementing a standardised procedure.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:

    No one noticed as this item was probably gone for a long time.

    No hard feelings because no one noticed that the time the item was gone because it wasn't announced so people could place demands on the vendors for discounts and the vendor decided not to discount.

    If you base your purchasing based on vendors choosing the least hassle of removing old products rather than the quality of the product, then those vendors probably aren't hurting for that sale as most people buy items because of quality, not drama.

    Oh - I go for quality too - but I go for Vendors "Support and interaction" with customers too.
    Sure, there may be items that vanish unnoticed - probably those that really didn't catch anybodys fancy.

    I liked Stonemason's approach - he told us before and how long we have time to buy and which items are going to vanish and he put them on sale too.
    I bet he got a lot of sales on that older content.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854
    edited December 1969

    First: there is a warning period, because those items are clearly labeled “Clearance” (in your wishlist too).
    Second: in the last years or so there have been frequent Clearance sales where items get discounted to $3.50 ..

    Clearance is not a requirement. As a vendor I have the option to pull a product there any time the mood strikes me and I don't have to have products go to clearance if I don't want them to. People do both of those things all the time for various reasons. The system offers a good bit of flexibility in how people run their businesses.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    Looks like the views of PAs and Customers are not really matching ...
    At another place they do regularly clear the store of older products - and that is leading to questions like: where did you get that hair/character/prop? and the answer it's not available anymore. This would have led to a sale, if the thing in question had been still available ...

    I agree. I also often see a texture for something I like and then go looking for the item it's for, only to find it's gone. Very annoying.

    For the very same reason, I can assure you that if I should start making content I'll make everything available forever, one way or another. :)

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited December 1969

    Vanguard said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Wishlists should be for short term items, not long term.

    That's not how I use the wishlist either. In fact I use it the opposite of how you described it.

    Same here.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    Khory said:
    At another place they do regularly clear the store of older products

    And yet, no one there is expected to ask permission before can remove something. It not just older products that leave but also newer ones as well. Nor does everything go to a special discount bin or get discounted or any of that jazz. Many products go directly from full price to gone.

    First: there is a warning period, because those items are clearly labeled "Clearance" (in your wishlist too).
    Second: in the last years or so there have been frequent Clearance sales where items get discounted to $3.50 ...

    Yes, I think it works quite well (if you can afford to buy all the clearance items you like before they go, that is, lol).

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,504
    edited December 1969

    In my opinion, if something has been sat in your wishlist that long, then you're probably unlikely to buy it anyway. It may 'interest' you, but clearly it's not enough interest to warrant a purchase, so that interest is ultimately meaningless to the seller. People like to mention waiting on sales and so forth, but honestly if the item has to be heavily discounted before you'd consider it worth a purchase then the seller isn't getting much out of the deal anyway.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    HeraldOfFire: maybe that is your way to work your wishlist - don't write "in your wishlist", when you mean your own wishlist.
    My way is different ...

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited July 2014

    ruekaka said:
    And to be honest, from the other side it sounds the same too. That’s why we don’t announce it.

    O.K., but the difference is that I do not want to sell anything to you. (We use it as a joke in our office: "Programming would be so nice - if there weren't all the customers...")


    At that point we don't want to sell that item particular item anymore. If we didn't then we wouldn't want to remove it or we would announce it to get any last minute sales.


    No one noticed as this item was probably gone for a long time.

    This particular one was removed only a view days ago. (But again the thread was meant as a more general feedback).

    I'm thinking you only noticed a few days ago. It's probably been gone longer than that. A lot of vendors cleared out their older gen3 product quite some time ago without mentioning due to lessons learned from the DAZ culling a few years back. It's far easier and less hassle to remove product by not announcing it.


    No hard feelings because no one noticed that the time was gone because it wasn’t announced so people could place demands on the vendors for discounts and the vendor decided not to discount.

    You can remove the pressure on the PA by implementing a standardised procedure.

    Telling DAZ that we don't want to sell an item is very well standard procedure and far preferred due to outcomes of threads like these. We aren't obligated to announce removed items. Most people don't notice until well after an item is gone because they don't monitor their wish lists. What I think you mean by standard procedure is announcing with a discount; vendors aren't obligated to do that and causes less headaches. Vendors can remove items at will without warning on any site, DAZ is no different. Clearance is simply for those wanting to keep items around in case someone wants it until it's removed by the store.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited July 2014

    Kerya said:


    I liked Stonemason's approach - he told us before and how long we have time to buy and which items are going to vanish and he put them on sale too.

    See what you said.. "He put them on sale too"...

    But what if I don't want to put the item on sale? What if I feel the quality no longer represents my current catalog so I want it gone quickly with no fanfare? If I announce the item removal, you would complain about it not being discounted and a ruckus would be made. My intention for removal is **not** a sale. I'm not sure why people aren't getting that.

    That's why some items aren't announced when it's removed. The only reason to announce items that are to be removed is to get sales.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 346
    edited December 1969


    At that point we don’t want to sell that item particular item anymore....

    Telling DAZ that we don’t want to sell an item is very well standard procedure and far preferred due to outcomes of threads like these...

    No it becomes clear to me what's going wrong with this discussion here.
    I know that there's a difference between PA and DAZ, but from my point of view (as a customer) it's always DAZ. And I guess DAZ will sell more items to their customers even if the PA doesn't.
    I understand you concern (although I think this is a real harmless thread).

    What I think you mean by standard procedure is announcing with a discount

    Why do you say so? I made some really clear statments that this procedure does not need to include a discounted sales period (it's just an option).

    I’m thinking you only noticed a few days ago. It’s probably been gone longer than that.

    This is also just an assumption. I saw this item a view days ago (less than 20 days) in my wishlist (so I guess it was available at this time). I go through my wishlist on a regular basis, so I'm pretty clear about the items on the list.

    Just to sum it: No one is forced to give away their products for a discounted price. No one is forced to announce it if a product is retired (At least that wasn't my intention).
    All I said is: I don't like it if items vanishing from the shop without any notice. If I'm the only one - who cares? But if more people see it like I do it's maybe something that could be considered.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Male-M3dia said:

    See what you said.. "He put them on sale too"...

    But what if I don't want to put the item on sale? What if I feel the quality no longer represents my current catalog so I want it gone quickly with no fanfare? If I announce the item removal, you would complain about it not being discounted and a ruckus would be made. My intention for removal is **not** a sale. I'm not sure why people aren't getting that.

    That's why some items aren't announced when it's removed. The only reason to announce items that are to be removed is to get sales.

    That is ok - you don't have to put anything on sale. You don't have to sell your items. It is ok.
    And I don't have to buy them.
    Peace!
    LOL

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited December 1969

    Amusingly somebody in the PC forum just wrote a thread that Sapphire Fox hair is not available anymore ... it seems to be a pandemic ...

This discussion has been closed.