Holy Cuda Cores, Renderman! My GPU has tripled in price!

tsroemi

JamesJAB said:

So, the 2TB intel NVME drive in my desktop has been in use for over 2 years with over 20TB written, and it's life remaining is showing 99%  I honestly wouldn't worry about SSD life, unless you are buying generic chinese brands.  If you want to be extra cautious, pay the extra money and get enterprise grade drives. 

My library is over 4200 items weighing in at 527GB.  The thing is, once that is written to your SSD, it is static data and is not contributing any further to the TB written stat.
As long as you keep your Windows swap file off of your Daz SSD... The drive will probably be obsolete before it fails..

Good advice I guess, but how would I be doing that, having only one drive in my laptop? Should I rather put my DAZ library onto an external SSD then, d'you think? 

Subtropic Pixel

kyoto kid said:

...installing new content is still a write operation, so is saving scenes say every fifteen minutes, so is the IM Installer archive (just in case something gets corrupted so I don't have to download again, also handy when Daz vaults products) which is 426 GB by itself.  It all adds up   This is why I would like it to primarily be more of a "read" device as possible. 

Currently my entire Content Library (sans most Poser files - I install them as I need them) is at only 629 GB on disk out of 2 TB so the IM archive almost doubles that by itself.

People are using SSDs for databases and system files, including swap files, and have been doing so for 10 years now.  We're not replacing our drives like you think we are.  If we were, there would be countless stories out there about how SSDs are not worth it.  But no no no, we make computers now without HDDs in them! 

I suggest to you that this write endurance issue is the equivalent of an "old wives tale".

If you remain unconvincable, that's fine and it's your choice.  But now you know that there is another side to the story, and that it makes a valid point.  Even if you're unwilling to believe the facts and real-world usage history (remember, we have now over 10 years of history with SSDs), all I ask is that you tell both sides.  Don't be guilty of misleading by omission.  That's especially important since your technical expertise is respected here.

Thanks for listening and for having at least a little bit of an open mind on SSD endurance.  You did read the article, and that's something.

kyoto kid

Taoz said:

kyoto kid said:

...an NVME SSD though uses a PCIe 3.0 x4 slot  As I mentioned my X58 MB only has PCIe 2,0 slots which would severely reduce performance from what I have read, so to save on finances I'll be sticking with "slower" SATA III format.. I am also running W7 Pro 64 which as I understand is not "NVME ready" like W8.1 or 10.(no way am I going to that nausiating UI, sacrificing my start button, and with 10, "force fed" updating along with a tonne of useless rubbishware and more every six months).

You can easily disable all updates in Win 10 Pro, my render PC hasn't been updated for over 2 years (I would like to update actually just haven't got it done yet).  It asks once a day if I want to update but I just close the update window and that's it (I won't recommend skipping updates if you use it for browsing though, for security reasons).  My other two Win 10 PCs do get updated but I haven't really noticed any "rubbishware", as least not anything that's giving me any problems.  Personally I wouldn't go back to any earlier versions of Windows.

...what I consider "rubbishware" is basically "fluff", ie. anything like games, gadgets "digital assistants", etc. Pretty much anything not necessary to support the software I use.  W10 throws that all at you on initial install requiring having to root around to get rid whatever you don't need or want, as well as after every feature update (which you have to eventually accept sometime).  I generally have no issue with security updates...that is as long as there are no bugs in them that can cause instabilities (which is why I dislike the "all or nothing" "Rollup" format MS went to instead of individual update files).

My 7 Pro runs nice and lean and boots fast. There was less to disable (which I could do permanently) at the outset than with 10.  The one basic flaw is I need IE active because it also ia linked to the local system search function. 

j cade

If you want to buy a new pc

 

https://www.letsbld.com/

currently has 3090s at pretty much MSRP price and reasonable build prices + a fully itemized invoice so you can check everything

AFAIK they only list what they have in stock currently so it changes pretty day to day

 

kyoto kid

Subtropic Pixel said:

kyoto kid said:

...installing new content is still a write operation, so is saving scenes say every fifteen minutes, so is the IM Installer archive (just in case something gets corrupted so I don't have to download again, also handy when Daz vaults products) which is 426 GB by itself.  It all adds up   This is why I would like it to primarily be more of a "read" device as possible. 

Currently my entire Content Library (sans most Poser files - I install them as I need them) is at only 629 GB on disk out of 2 TB so the IM archive almost doubles that by itself.

People are using SSDs for databases and system files, including swap files, and have been doing so for 10 years now.  We're not replacing our drives like you think we are.  If we were, there would be countless stories out there about how SSDs are not worth it.  But no no no, we make computers now without HDDs in them! 

I suggest to you that this write endurance issue is the equivalent of an "old wives tale".

If you remain unconvincable, that's fine and it's your choice.  But now you know that there is another side to the story, and that it makes a valid point.  Even if you're unwilling to believe the facts and real-world usage history (remember, we have now over 10 years of history with SSDs), all I ask is that you tell both sides.  Don't be guilty of misleading by omission.  That's especially important since your technical expertise is respected here.

Thanks for listening and for having at least a little bit of an open mind on SSD endurance.  You did read the article, and that's something.

..still would like a translation of how the final result numbers from the tests break down to total lifetime of daily use. Those were basically hardcore 24/7/365 tests to acellerate a failure after so many operations.  True SSDs have been around for a decade but is an individual one from 2011 still working? 

zombietaggerung

kyoto kid said:

Taoz said:

kyoto kid said:

...an NVME SSD though uses a PCIe 3.0 x4 slot  As I mentioned my X58 MB only has PCIe 2,0 slots which would severely reduce performance from what I have read, so to save on finances I'll be sticking with "slower" SATA III format.. I am also running W7 Pro 64 which as I understand is not "NVME ready" like W8.1 or 10.(no way am I going to that nausiating UI, sacrificing my start button, and with 10, "force fed" updating along with a tonne of useless rubbishware and more every six months).

You can easily disable all updates in Win 10 Pro, my render PC hasn't been updated for over 2 years (I would like to update actually just haven't got it done yet).  It asks once a day if I want to update but I just close the update window and that's it (I won't recommend skipping updates if you use it for browsing though, for security reasons).  My other two Win 10 PCs do get updated but I haven't really noticed any "rubbishware", as least not anything that's giving me any problems.  Personally I wouldn't go back to any earlier versions of Windows.

...what I consider "rubbishware" is basically "fluff", ie. anything like games, gadgets "digital assistants", etc. Pretty much anything not necessary to support the software I use.  W10 throws that all at you on initial install requiring having to root around to get rid whatever you don't need or want, as well as after every feature update (which you have to eventually accept sometime).  I generally have no issue with security updates...that is as long as there are no bugs in them that can cause instabilities (which is why I dislike the "all or nothing" "Rollup" format MS went to instead of individual update files).

My 7 Pro runs nice and lean and boots fast. There was less to disable (which I could do permanently) at the outset than with 10.  The one basic flaw is I need IE active because it also ia linked to the local system search function. 

My W10 computer boots up is less than 10 sec. And all that "fluff" you keep insisting exists, can very easily be disabled on first set up. And my W10 Pro did not come with anymore pre-installed "games" than my version of W7 Pro, ie Solitare. And If there's no start button, I don't what I've been clicking on for the past 4 years to open my start menu. 

Joltrast

That might actually be perfect for me. Don't know anything about the company though. 

j cade said:

If you want to buy a new pc

https://www.letsbld.com/

currently has 3090s at pretty much MSRP price and reasonable build prices + a fully itemized invoice so you can check everything

AFAIK they only list what they have in stock currently so it changes pretty day to day

 

outrider42

SSDs are fine. Multiple studies show they fail at a lower rate than HDD. There have also been studies on SSDs over long periods of time, like this one for enterprise use. https://www.zdnet.com/article/ssd-reliability-in-the-enterprise/

And if enterprises are fine with using SSD, I think that fact alone shows that SSD is reliable enough. I don't know how much more proof is needed here, but it is generally accepted that SSD is superior in pretty much every way possible.

It is easy to understand why this is. HDDs have multiple failure points. Because they are mechanical in nature, the motors in them can fail and often do. There are no moving parts in SSD, and you do not need to worry as much about heat effecting them. The read write cycles are so high that odds are a new SSD will out live all us viewing this post. And the tech is only getting better.

Plus, SSDs are so much smaller, you can fit a lot more of them in a space compared to HDD. The only drawback to SSD is their price per GB.

And we are still going on about Windows 10?

At any rate these have little to do with the discussion topic of GPU prices. The GPU market sucks right now. The end. Unless crypto currency is straight up banned the GPU shortage and scalping will continue unabated. Nvidia has actually produced a TON of Ampere cards for the market, but demand is absolutely insane. Good luck to anyone who tries to buy right now, because you need a lot of luck to be able to find one in stock at a reasonable price. I do not believe this will change for all of 2021. I would LOVE to be wrong, and some people are predicting it will change. But I don't believe them. It will take drastic changes to the market for this to change.

Subtropic Pixel

kyoto kid said:

Subtropic Pixel said:

kyoto kid said:

...installing new content is still a write operation, so is saving scenes say every fifteen minutes, so is the IM Installer archive (just in case something gets corrupted so I don't have to download again, also handy when Daz vaults products) which is 426 GB by itself.  It all adds up   This is why I would like it to primarily be more of a "read" device as possible. 

Currently my entire Content Library (sans most Poser files - I install them as I need them) is at only 629 GB on disk out of 2 TB so the IM archive almost doubles that by itself.

People are using SSDs for databases and system files, including swap files, and have been doing so for 10 years now.  We're not replacing our drives like you think we are.  If we were, there would be countless stories out there about how SSDs are not worth it.  But no no no, we make computers now without HDDs in them! 

I suggest to you that this write endurance issue is the equivalent of an "old wives tale".

If you remain unconvincable, that's fine and it's your choice.  But now you know that there is another side to the story, and that it makes a valid point.  Even if you're unwilling to believe the facts and real-world usage history (remember, we have now over 10 years of history with SSDs), all I ask is that you tell both sides.  Don't be guilty of misleading by omission.  That's especially important since your technical expertise is respected here.

Thanks for listening and for having at least a little bit of an open mind on SSD endurance.  You did read the article, and that's something.

..still would like a translation of how the final result numbers from the tests break down to total lifetime of daily use. Those were basically hardcore 24/7/365 tests to acellerate a failure after so many operations.  True SSDs have been around for a decade but is an individual one from 2011 still working? 

Yes.

nonesuch00

I have a 10 year old 223GB SSD from Mushkin and it works fine. Used it for years in a 9 year old HP Elitebook to CPU render in DAZ Studio, no problems or failures due to heat. Can't say the same for magenetic HDDs.