Celebrity Look-a-Likes for 3D figures Part 2
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Anyway guys, I don't want this thread to get off track, so if anyone has any questions about my stuff or anything, please get in touch with me using the email address on my site. Cheers.
Adam, it's feedback. You can take it or leave it, but I think the mark of a true artist, which I know you to be, is the ability to take it. I wasn't trying to be a jerk, but re-reading my post I wish I would have changed a few things up. For that, I apologize.
To be more clear, I don't think you're a con artist or anything of the sort. I've been buying your stuff for the past few years and will continue to do so, but if I am to be honest, I think some of your characters need some help from the side angles.
Not for one second do I think the work you do is easy, nor am I trying to marginalize your accomplishments. Honestly, this thread is probably due to your pioneering efforts, and for that, I thank you.
Good luck on all future endeavors. BTW, I think your AC series are phenomenal.
Isn't that what a forum is for: posting personal opinions? And then discussing them?
Whatever... I personally have yet to buy any of Adam's figures, so I can't say anything about how close to the depicted celebreties they come out as. From the pictures in the shop some look closer to the "original" than others, but that's the same with about all "celebrity" figures shown in this thread. And yes, especially when one doesn't use the "perfect perspective" that gives the closest resemblance to the original (plus the proper hair and stuff...)
@maikdecker You forgot a very important part of my comment. What I actually said was that I find it unnecessarily harsh and quite unfair that a personal opinion was posted as a "public service announcement". That is how co.higgins presented it, even calling it a "PSA" and that is my problem with the post. Of course the point of a forum is to post personal opinions and I have no problem at all with that, people do that here all the time. What I have a problem with is someone implying that a "public service announcement" is required because there is something about my products that needs bringing to the public's attention. I present all of my content clearly and without any edits, so that everyone can make up their own minds whether they like the product or not.
A lookalike is a not a mirror image of another person. That's the problem with most of the discussion about lookalikes in the 3D space. Now if you are looking for a detailed sculpt of a celebrity that's another thing.
A lookalike doesn't even have to be of the same nationality or skin color. I've seen an Arnold Schwarzenegger black lookalike.. They don't even have to have the same bone structure; ie, one person can have a round head and another an oval head.
Adam,
I'm one who reckons your character sale pages leave absolutely nothing to chance, with the additional downloadable sale images going well beyond the call of duty. And you go miles beyond what is permitted for characters sold at daz3d.com. If anything, I often wish it were possible to see characters at daz3d.com in the A pose you show every character in, wearing only their birthday suit, that way would be more certain of the figure's true shape. A number of PA's here fail to fully show the character shape a bit with their choice of clothing in the promo images. With you having your NSFW images lower down on the sale page, it means that it's possible to purchase the character without getting domestic strife from a severely grumpy wife/partner looking over one's shoulder, which is a huge relief!
Regards,
Richard.
@nDelphi That's a very good point to make.
@richardandtracy LOL! Thanks Richard, I appreciate that you recognise my endeavour to give the most complete view of what you are getting :)
I always know what i'm getting from Adam, whenever I make a purchase. It's never up to chance, I'm never guessing "what will it look like?". His promo images leave little to wonder about. I do agree the whole "PSA" thing was a bit overboard, especially since I can categorically state that NONE of the celebrity morphs I've ever seen or downloaded are perfect representations. Some come incredibly close, but there are always minor differences.
I think Adam's morphs are perfectly serviceable, and in many cases do a great job depicting certain celebrities, so keep up the good work Adam!
@nightwolf1982 Thank you very much for your very fair comments and for your support :)
Another thing to keep in mind is that real people don't necessarily look very much like even themselves from different angles. I have 13+ years experience working as a photo assistant in the high art/fashion portrait photography realm (in an unnamed major metropolitan area) and have gotten to see/study/light the faces of a bunch of celebrities every single person in this thread under the age of ninety could instantly identify. And nine times out of ten, you'd be amazed at how varied they look irl versus what's seen of them in media.
Supermodels, for example, usually have about 3-4 angles from which virtually all photos of their faces are taken, due to those angles being the most effective at conveying what photographers generally find most appealing about the shape of their face.
Since the golden age of cinema, actors have even gone so far as to put official stipulations in their contracts about which angles they could/couldn't be shot from (Claudette Colbert comes to mind - she so disliked the right side of her face that - during the peak of her career - sets would have to be redesigned so that everything could be shot from her left side.)
Sometimes these likenesses are actually much more realistic tthan you realize.
I, too, want to show my support to the work of Adam Thwaites. I buy the characters that I like and with the ton of pics available for each of them, there are no surprises. For instance, I found the Angelina Jolie particularly well done. So keep on the good work Adam!
From my point of view Adam's images do a good job to represent exactly what you are getting. I don't think anyone is discussing that.
However, I don't think what Higgins said is that outrageous as you make it out to be. The PSA thing was a bit overboard but at the same time, but after rereading his comment I've looked at several celebrity series pages and I have not found a single image from the side.
I am sure that was not done to mislead in any way, it is either something you don't consider doing or never thought of but it does make his "warning" somewhat more valid than you make it out to be. He, as somewhat that noticed this, wanted to tell people so they know as they would not notice that from the provided images. (Again, noone is saying you are trying to mislead anyone)
Regarding the celebrities, I like to see what other people create in this area and I am fascinated with that as I tried and have no talent for it.
You have a real talent for capturing the likeness of someone. Even if they don't look 100% the same, I think I can recognize about 90% of your celebrities, which is a big deal.
However I do want to say that there are a few celebrieties in the series that, while they do capture the likeness don't really look like real people. I don't want to give examples as I don't want to disuade possible customers from them but if you want I can message you about it in private.
@RayDAnt Those are some really interesting things to consider.
@mlominy Many thanks for your positive comments :)
@alex86fire I honestly am baffled by what you are saying. All of my promo renders for my characters include views from the side. Are we now nitpicking about exactly how many degrees the character is turned? In my opinion that does not warrant a "public service announcement" or a "warning". This is starting to get ridiculous. If there are characters that you don't like that's absolutely fine.
@AdamThwaites there is a difference between a side view and a 45 or 60 degrees angle. That is why for mugshots at the police for example, they always take a side photo (the profile picture).
I am sure when you are modeling the characters you also use a side view image for reference.
As I said before, I don't think the PSA was in any way warranted, it just sounds weird to put it mildly but if there is something that can be notced from the side view that cannot be noticed from a 45 or 60 degree angle I can see why someone might want to warn about that.
I am not saying I agree with what he said as I don't own any of your characters but just look at this product for example: https://www.daz3d.com/face-transfer-shapes-for-genesis-8. It's a sort of an add-on for Face transfer to allow for better profiles. You can clearly see in those profile photos of the before that indeed there is no likeness. Something that might not be as clear from a 45 or 60 degrees angle.
Not sure why I have to exaplin this to you as I am sure, as I said before, you use side images for your modeling and I am also sure you know the importance of those side images and would not replace them with at an angle photo.
@alex86fire I think I'll just leave it up to each viewer to decide for themselves about what they think of a character when they look at the promo renders. All I can say is that each set of character promo renders (usually around 15 images at least) shows multiple views of the character from many different angles (including side views) at different distances and with different lights (which I now also include), so that you get a clear impression of what the character looks like and you know exactly what you're getting. As have several people confirmed here in the forum.
EDIT: Edited for clarity.
I've bought all of Adam's CS and want to send my support, but nobody is asking the important question...
@dukejones LMAO thanks very much duke :)
Maybe we can all move on now and get the thread back to what it was before.
Okay, I'll try to get us back on track with a little question. Does anyone know of suitable standin models for Ksenio Solo & Zoie Palmer? Also looking for Melissa O'Niel & Jodelle Ferland (yes they are from "Lost Girl" & Dark Matter"). Mainly looking for face morphs as I can recreate the body measurmenets usign Measure Metrics. I recently bought Izabelle over at Rendo and whiel she is almost dead on in the face for Anna Silk, he has out on a few pounds. Anna's measurements are 36-25-35 and 5'5" but the model is 39-29-42 ant 5'5" tall. I can fix the vody with a little judicions dial spinning but I am not so good and replacating faces via dial spinning. Took me4 several weeks to get a reasonable fascimilie of Bettie Page that I use for some of my pinup art.
Ksenia Solo - Shyleen for V4
No idea if it's an intentional likeness or not. But imo the resemblance (especially in this promo pic) is quite striking.
Only one problem, I can't convert her to Genesis 8 without buying multiple conversion prioducts to get her from V4 to G3 so I can convert to G8 Thank you for trying though.
And celebrities are not frozen in time. When we think of Michelle Pfeiffer, is it the Scarface Michelle Pfeiffer or the Ant Man Michelle Pfeiffer? And then there are people like Mickey Rourke and Meg Ryan. I've bought a few celeb characters, but ended up usually not doing much with them, because when you examine them, and you have to in order to set up a proper render, they kind of lose their magic, imo. Trying to get the character right can be fun, but when it's not really them, it's never really the same, for me anyway. With that said, I'm still trying to get Krysten Ritter and Jodie Comer figured out.
That was the intent of my post. Not to smear or shame Adam. I told him I wish I would have phrased things differently, but some of his follow up comments have left me a little puzzled, along with his attempts to end the critical discussion about his work. Last I checked, this thread was about celebrity model discussion, and my original post was on topic.
I very much doubt Adam would be trying to end/re-route the discussion if all the comments were glowing. In fact, just doing a quick scan of this thread shows that Adam certainly enjoys the compliments he receives.
There are a number of good points in this post you made. Unfortunately, they don't really provide damage control for BLATANTLY incorrect facial structure--the kind found in the CS16 comparison I made in my original post. There's no hand-waiving that away.
Well, except that they are. We associate celebrities with their iconic roles or the time period in which they rose to fame. For the *most* part, this means their youth (I'll roughly define that as 18-38). Also, I find it hilarious you use Michelle Pfeiffer's Ant Man role to make a point. Scarface I'll grant you, but you choose Ant Man over Batman Returns? That's a wee bit intellectually disingenuous.
But maybe I'm just underestimating the "hey, can someone please make a mid-fifties version of Michelle Pfeiffer" market. ;)
Which then begs the question - why was it written in a way that makes it seem meant to do just that?
Blatantly incorrect according to what standard? My points are made based on the standard of having gotten to see and study (in a professional capacity) what famous people look like dynamically in real life versus how they tend to be presented as looking statically in visual media. What are your standards based on?
Specific images are frozen in time (static.) People are not (they are dynamic.) Arguably the biggest distinction between a 'likeness' and a 'look-a-like' is that the former is - ideally - a dynamic representation of the person whereas the latter is a static representation. And which one counts as subjectively better or worse depends entirely on what you, the observer, happens to be looking for at that moment.
What is with this 'we' business? You might think this (and imo it's your right to do so.) But what you may/may not think says nothing about what I - for example - may think about it.
You are making it sound like famous people look different than the rest of us. There are plenty of movies of most of the celebrities Adam is capturing the likeness of. While edited and filmed in a certain way most movies do capture the actors from multiple angles. Most celebrities also have interviews where you can see them in a more natural state. Your examples with certain angles for different celebrities come from a different era where social media and paparazzi are not so invasive of their lives.
For me, you working with the celebrities I'm interested in only gives you an edge if you tell me how they behave in real life, compared to how they behave in front of a camera. Not when it comes to how they look.
That being said, I don't agree with the blatantly incorrect facial structure phrasing. It is again an over the board wording that does itself more harm than good. What does it even mean incorrect facial structure? Incorrect would mean there is a correct. This is about look-a-likes or capturing the likeness of someone. Not making identical 3Dcopies of them (which I think would be illegal and it's why some would stay clear of even likenesses). I think to capture a likeness of a certain person you have to understand what are his/her key features that distinguish them and capture those features. So incorrect is just an incorrect word there. Facial structure I'm not even going to comment upon.
I think you missed the point there. One (Scarface) was an iconic role and the other one (Ant Man) was the last role. I think that was the point Sevrin was making. Some people think of celebrities from their iconic roles. Others might think of them from their last role. Some may even be such big fans that they think of them from social media or interviews and not any role specifically. And again with the pompuous phrasing at the end. Not going to comment on this one.
oh god yes! I have asked him to make a cs katy perry lol I check the store everyday to see if ones been put up for sale lol
She's always either Ladyhawke or Antman to me. There is no in between. She was fine in Batman. She is stunning now.And the point was indeed variation in appearance. Not iconic roles.
When I think of her I almost always picture her in Dangerous Minds. The story, the soundtrack, that movie just had a powerful impact on me.