Is G8 being neglected?
Drogo Nazhur
Posts: 1,117
If I remember correctly, in the past when a new Genesis was introduced, a majority of the packages being released worked for the new release and there was a version th worked for the previous release. For example, I have law enforcement clothing for G3M but there was a version for G2M because G3M just came out. Dittio for haor for G8F. There was a lot over packages where they had a version for G3F.I understand that it won't work for character morphs but for accessories, I recall it being common.
I don't see this happening that much with G9. Very, very few products also have a G8 counterpart which is ashame because some of us (well, maybe me only LOL) like to EASE into the next release so that when I finally embrace the new release I aleady own some haor & clothing and the exodus to the new Genesis becomes easier.
[Thread title changed from Is G9 being prejudiced?]
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Genesis 9 is over a year old. Nearer to the release there were a lot of packages that suported both figures. Either way, it has nothing to do with prejudice so I have edited your thead title to avoid unnecesary heated arguments.
As critical as I am of G9, even I have to admit the ship has sailed. We're at the point now where it's a pleasant surprise when any new G8 resources appear in the store, and honestly this is probably as it should be.
I, too, LOVE cross-gen resources. If I see a hair or an outfit that has both G8 and G9 versions this makes me much more inclined to buy it; every one of these I buy improves my flexibility in story and character design. Same with G8/G3 cross-gen stuff, but it's worth noting that the gap to cross to go from G8 to G9 is a lot bigger. I don't make resources (perish forbid), but judging from comments from PAs and other creators here, it took a lot less work to adapt clothes or hair (or surfaces!) from G8 to G3 or the other way 'round than it does to make the G8/G9 jump. When you see an outfit that has both G8 and G9 in the kit, you really are buying two very different kits that happened to be offered in the same package, not one kit with slight adaptation. And I can see where a PA who has decided to fully make the leap to G9 would not be willing to look back at G8 and make any legacy resources.
It's OK. There is still a LOT of G8 (and G3!) back catalog to mine. I'm buying more older resources than new ones these days (it doesn't hurt that they are usually cheaper). I don't plan to run out of useful life on G8 and G3 properties for years yet. (My one fear is that Studio will decide to abandon support for older generations of figures, at which point I simply become frozen in time and stop upgrading Studio.)
There are people still doing all their work with V4 era stuff. Most of it looks perfectly adequate for what they're using it for.
NOTE TO FORESTALL THE USUAL ARGUMENT, before the mods come in and say it too: THIS IS NOT G9 BASHING. I happen to dislike G9 for my own reasons and can't easily walk away from literally thousands of dollars spent on G8 kit. If G9 works for you, more power to you.
There are still some new products coming out with Genesis 8 support. That's up to the individual artist.
I'm not neglecting Genesis 8!
Indeed! And looking at today's new-new and still-new listings, I see three cross-gen clothing items, three cross-gen pose items, two cross-gen hair items, and the muscle definition enhancer kit which is G8 only!
It hasn't stopped, for sure. (And I appreciate people who are still doing it.) But I think the G8 new stuff has definitely slowed to a trickle. And, as I said, that's probably as it should be, at this point. As Richard noted, it's been over a year (even if it doesn't feel like it to me--time flies!)
The other stores seem to give G8 a priority. And they have the prices that we had before the G9 prices came along, even for their new G8 items.
I've seen a number of things for 9, 8, and 8.1. I grab those if they're somethig I can use, because I still use G8. I'm still getting used to G9 and I'm not totally satisfied with their facial expressions yet, but I do use them for some renders.
I'm not neglecting G8.x either while playing a lot with G9. They have pros & cons of their own, naturally, while I just respect the facts...
In my opinion, someone making clothing for male characters would be wise to continue supporting Genesis 8 and 8.1 - especially if they are selling them here.
Genesis 9 has no sorting or filtering options for men's clothing vs women's clothing. The vast majority of Genesis 9 clothing is made for women and female characters, so if a buyer is looking for any male garments, it's a manual process.
Supporting G8/8.1M + G9 allows it to be tagged male, making it easier for buyers to find, and also broadens your customer base for the people still using G8/8.1.
On the bright side, Daz3D normally discounts older products more so if there is something you wanted for your favorite base figure, chances are the older it gets, the steeper the discount on its products will be.
Another perspective : supporting more than one generation means double the work/time, but not double the pay - so if you're paying bills then it doesn't make sense. Modeling is fun, rigging and morphs is mind numbingly boring... so I would rather spend my time on making new things and rigging once. :)
I'd buy your stuff for any generation, @Mada, if you would continue to make it.
With Pro Bundles, AprilYSH continued to support Genesis 3 for at least a year with her hairs. But her hairs in Genesis 9 Pro Bundles have been only for Genesis 9. OOT did likewise with Genesis 3 support after the advent of Genesis 8, but his Genesis 9 hair has been G9 only.
Outside of a few things that have caught my eye in reference to G9 I think are cool. But for the most part G9 hasn't motivated me support and invest into yet another figure. Not when I have so much content into G3 and G8 to satisfy me a long time. So I guess I'm one of these that you could say G3/8 would have to be pried from my cold dead fingers. Not only that there are way too many awesome bass guitars that need my attention and to be played.
G3 and G8 were basically the same. So it was easier to support one generation back.
and then there is this
https://www.daz3d.com/mmx-genesis-9-clones-for-all
while i feel these kinda autofit clones can be hit and miss, i find them useful enough to make most things work between generations
I would like to add my personal testimonial for Mattymanx' clone set. They have been vital to me in recent months.
Can you message me where those other stores are? I only know of two other places but I would definitely be interested in knowing as many as I can. G3 as well ;)
If anything for g9 like clothes or hair really catches my eye and my wallet agrees, I will just port it over to g8 myself really. As for characters, I already got a bajillion of those lol.
Man, this thread makes me feel old for some reason....
I remember when clothes, textures and hair ONLY worked with the character they were created. (Except things like hair could be manually parented and sometimes work okay.) So to me, instead of only having Aiko 3 and her stuff or Victoria 4 and her stuff, now I have Genesis and Genesis 2, 3, 8, 9, etc... Only I can almost always get clothes and hair to work now on any of them, AND each one of them have unique characters I like to use for different reasons, so I like the variety. But, I also have "old" characters that aren't part of my "DAZ" collection of charaters (Like Nursoda's stuff or my Maya Ball Joint Doll) so... it doesn't feel like I'm losing anything at all. Just growing an enormous runtime! LOL
Personally I am no longer purchasing anything for G8.1 or older. Bascially because I have all i need for those generations and eventually that support will dry up as it has in the past. I also look at other stores and while there is still a bit of G8 product being produced and marketed, I see more and more PAs/vendors at those stores going the G9 route
With converters, I can actually reproduce any of my saved G8 scenes with G9 at this point.
The oft repeated comments are that male clothing doesn't sell, so if a modeler is focused on their ROI, I'd wager that modeler is focusing on the high volume sellers - clothing, hair, props and characters for women - so the lack of being able to sort by gender is a moot point for them. It's the majority of the product, it's the default that's easy to locate.
Well, Esid and I published three products for Genesis 8.1 Males recently, with three equivalents for Genesis 8.1 Females submitted and ready to release (soon). How those items do will vs when we do the equivalent for Genesis 9 will give us a rough idea of whether it's worth it to keep trying to do items for Genesis 8 vs only focusing on Genesis 9. This would be our third comparison, too.
I hope I need them so I can vote for G8.1.
I admit I am focused on ROI - I don't like to work for free, and if I did I might as well look for something else to do. My releases this year was split equally between male and female. Supporting both genders is much easier with Genesis 9. Supporting different generations is double work. Each outfit has to be rigged and morphed from scratch for every generation.
Male
Dynasty Attire
Jump Tech
Praefectus
Lixue
Conqueror
Active Wear
Summer Santa
Female
Recon
Nocturne
Medusa
Siren of Snakes
Executive Suit
The Defender
Pixyled
Can't say I blame you, there, Mada.
Personally, I'm really excited about G9. I LOVE the fact that Genesis has returned to a single figure, because that means creature morphs and stuff won't have to be bought twice. We can make whole families (or orc families) that look like eachother, and clothing doesn't have to be gender specific. And - they look really great! I've seen some renders that nearly make me think I'm looking at real people!
I can't wait to see what creators do with it!
I wasn't saying male clothing isn't being made, but pointing out Daz's decision to remove gender labels from clothing makes it difficult for one to find male clothing for G9. As more time goes on, it's only going to get more difficult for customers looking for it. That's probably going to be reflected in purchases, which I can see leading to even fewer items being made.
Linking the G9 product to a G8M gendered tag is a way of keeping some sorting ability alive. I understand you're saying that's extra work that you may not find worth it.
Really love some G9 clothes and I got them and transformed them to G8, as I didn't jump on the G9 train yet. Certainly I would like to see G8 compatibility from scratch, but I understand that PAs have to work efficiently for their return of invest.
In general some new clothes are not my taste. Fantasy clothes for women with heels? Medieval female clothes with trousers or long dresses that clean up the floor? A lot of skimpy clothes for women?
I'd love to see more everyday clothes also for man.
I really like Phaedra Flat Sandals For Genesis 9 and 8 Female or Elly Flat Sandals for Genesis 9, 8, and 3.
I also like dForce Eveline Medieval Tavern Maid Outfit for Genesis 9, 8.1 and 8 Female,
dForce Viking Warrior Outfit for Genesis 9
dForce Legend Outfit for Genesis 9
dForce Medieval Style Outfit for Genesis 9,
KuJ dForce Medieval Dress for Genesis 9
Is it an easy process and is there a tutorial explaining how to do it ?
SickleYield had one to explain how to convert from G3 to G8 (or from G8 to G3) that I was able to understand and apply, but when I naively tried the same technic to convert from G8 to G9, as soon as I fitted the clothes, they ended ~10 centimers over the shoulders of the Genesis 9 Figure and did not really follow the poses I applied to G9
...whenever a new Genesis generation was released content for the previous one almost immediately disappeared. This was frustrating when the "shelf life was around 2 years and made me hesitant to dump hundreds into a new generation on a tight budget. to get the versatility I needed for character design. I will admit Genesis 8 sort of broke that mould, not only lasting more than twice as long as previous generations (not counting 8.1 which changed the UV map) meaning a larger selection of content, but also introduced a number of new and interesting characters aside from just another rehash of the same ones again.
As mentioned, G3 and G8 are probably the most cross compatible generations as they share the same basic body mesh and UV map. which makes fitting clothing and even mixing shapes between the two possible, the latter through Zev0's XTransfer. (it even accommodates transfer older Genesis morphs/shapes to G8, provided they were originally converted to G3 via GenX2). That makes for providing an extensive "gene pool" for custom character design (I basically have over a decade worth of material to work with).
The main reason I decided not to adopt G9 is that I no longer am in a financial position to drop a pile of zlotys into a entirely new generation to support the level of the character development I do. That said, I actually do like the fact that G9 returned to the androgynous base figure which makes cross fitting clothing and even mixing shapes/morphs between genders simple Also certain resource content (likeZev0's Skin Builder) now accommodates both genders.. The downside Is the single base figure limits cross compatibility with older generations. True, there are fit clones and a few conversion tools (primarily clothing and poses) but mixing shapes and morphs along with adapting skins based on the older UV maps is a more difficult process.