Is G8 being neglected?

Dartanbeck

PerttiA said:

ColinFrench said:

takezo_3001 said:

... so I attribute at least some of the anti-G9 sentiment to our deep-seated nostalgia, and apprehension of the future.

No nostalgia in my case, just simple economics. That is, does G9 provide benefits that justify investing in a new generation? For me, the answer is no, it's actually a step backwards. YMMV.

No nostalgia reasons here either. The PA's have praised G9 for being easier to work with (sculpting), but for me as a user it just doesn't give me what G8 does.

Same. And so far I like the Genesis 8 monsters better. But the Genesis 9 generation is young. I expect it to get better in time. Genesis 8 didn't really seem to need time - everyone was on an amazing roll already with Genesis 3, and the trends continued.

I have high hopes for Genesis 9 - or maybe 9.1? But for me, it just doesn't work well... yet. Whereas Genesis 1 through 8 (and earlier generations too!) are performing like real professionals! 

For now I might blame my computer. But for the earlier generations, I don't need such excuses - they just work.

riftwitch

kyoto kid said:

...whenever a new Genesis generation was released content for the previous one almost immediately disappeared. This was frustrating when the "shelf life was around 2 years and made me hesitant to dump hundreds into a new generation on a tight budget. to get the versatility I needed for character design. I will admit Genesis 8 sort of broke that mould, not only lasting more than twice as long as previous generations (not counting 8.1 which changed the UV map) meaning a larger selection of content, but also introduced a number of new and interesting characters aside from just another rehash of the same ones again. 

As mentioned, G3 and G8 are probably the most cross compatible generations as they share the same basic body mesh and UV map. which makes fitting clothing and even mixing shapes between the two possible, the latter through Zev0's XTransfer. (it even accommodates transfer older Genesis morphs/shapes to G8, provided they were originally converted to G3 via GenX2). That makes for providing an extensive  "gene pool" for custom character design (I basically  have over a decade worth of material to work with). 

The main reason I decided not to adopt G9 is that I no longer am in a financial position to drop a pile of zlotys into a entirely new generation to support the level of the character development I do.  That said, I actually do like the fact that G9 returned to the androgynous base figure which makes cross fitting clothing and even mixing shapes/morphs between genders simple Also certain resource content (likeZev0's Skin Builder) now accommodates both genders..  The downside Is the single base figure limits cross compatibility with older generations.  True, there are fit clones and a few conversion tools (primarily clothing and poses)  but mixing shapes and morphs along with adapting skins based on the older UV maps

is a more difficult process.

That's my situation, too. My disposable income changed shortly after Victoria 8 was released, so I haven't spent much on new content, but using my G3 content on G8/8.1 has worked fine for my needs. The only thing keeping me from using G9 much is not having much content for it, but autofit works well, and converting morphs from earlier generations is pretty simple. My ancient computer doesn't handle iRay well, and DAZ won't load on my machine at all if the DForce plugin is installed, so I'm fine with the content I have. 

And I'm thrilled that G9 went back to a unified base, which was one of the things I liked about the original Genesis. At some point, I'll get a new computer, and be able to do more with the newer features. 

JasmineSkunk

Mr_Fluffkin said:

FirstBastion said:

Gen9 has some really nice characters and clothes, but  I've invested quite a bit in Genesis 8, and for now it has everything I need for the projects I'm working on. Plus it loads and runs very efficiently on my current system. 

Same for me. I have so much stuff for G8 that G9 just isn't appealing enough to me. Of course I like some of the G9 characters/clothes, but I think the advantages are too little to "rebuild" my library with G9 wardrobe, morphs, geoshells and so on. And I don't want to fiddle with my clothes for ages every time I pose. Or convert all my stuff. So I decided to completly skip on G9 and only buy G8 compatible stuff or environments in the future. I even left Daz+ because I buy so much less since G9. But it's all good, I understand that there has to be some change at some point to improve the technology. Maybe I'll reinvest into G10 or 11. :)

I'm in sort of an opposite place. I don't have a lot for G8 because I wasn't around, and currently things for G9 are being offered up at sale prices that are more economical than most stuff for G8.

Mr_Fluffkin

JasmineSkunk said:

Mr_Fluffkin said:

FirstBastion said:

Gen9 has some really nice characters and clothes, but  I've invested quite a bit in Genesis 8, and for now it has everything I need for the projects I'm working on. Plus it loads and runs very efficiently on my current system. 

Same for me. I have so much stuff for G8 that G9 just isn't appealing enough to me. Of course I like some of the G9 characters/clothes, but I think the advantages are too little to "rebuild" my library with G9 wardrobe, morphs, geoshells and so on. And I don't want to fiddle with my clothes for ages every time I pose. Or convert all my stuff. So I decided to completly skip on G9 and only buy G8 compatible stuff or environments in the future. I even left Daz+ because I buy so much less since G9. But it's all good, I understand that there has to be some change at some point to improve the technology. Maybe I'll reinvest into G10 or 11. :)

I'm in sort of an opposite place. I don't have a lot for G8 because I wasn't around, and currently things for G9 are being offered up at sale prices that are more economical than most stuff for G8.

I hope there are plenty of people keeping the Genesis evolution alive, I'm all for it. And I agree, there have been some very cool deals on G9 stuff lately. I've also bought a few G9 items when the deal was too good, like some of the $2 steals. We've gotten some quality G9 freebies lately too, like OOT hair and stuff. Along with some G8 compatible G9 items I've bought, my G9 library is surprisingly "big" for the ~$10 I've invested into G9. But it would still take me until the release of G10 to rebuild my library for G9, until I have similar options to G8. So I think this is a good point for me to skip a generation.

I'm not sure how time consuming it is to create a G8 version for a G9 item, but I'm guessing it's mostly to customize some of the bones? I don't know, but I really appreciate any PA who does that.

Drogo Nazhur

Mada said:

Drogo Nazhur said:

You have a valid point but consider this -- if everyone is making stuff for G9, you are competing with all of them with the buying population. But if you make a NEW release for G8, or G3 or even G2, you are not cometing with anyone. I am still on the lookout for G2 & G3 stuff. Just because the characters are older doesn't mean that they are dead. I do digital comics and some of my most popular characters are G2 based. I use the newer stuff but I'm not retiring my most popular characters just because they are G2 or G3 and I'm always on the look out to get more accesories or them.

Something to consider yes - so I tested that theory when we went from V4 to Genesis, and again from Genesis to Genesis 3, and both times the new generation outsold the old one by far :)

Well, you didn't have me around back then  I will buy new G2F characters and morphs and accessories as well as new G3M characters and morphs and accessories. I'm good with G2M, G3F & G8. The genres that I focus on is superheroes, magic, monsters (like Frankenstein, Dracula, Mr. Hyde, etc., not alien or insect type creatures) and cops & robbers.If you fo stuff like that for G2F and G3M, I assure you that I will buy it and I won't wait for a sale but pay full price for is -- assuming it is priced like similar items.

CHWT

I have bought some G9 stuff lately, because they were dirt cheap. In fact I am not wowed by most G9 stuff, but it's no harm buying dirt cheap G9 stuff to build my library. I understand that there will be very few new G8/8.1 items, it's a business after all. Just use whatever you like the most. I use G8 as main characters all the time.

PixelSploiting

 Be generation-agnostic. It doesn't matter if it's G2, G3, G8+ or G9 as long as you can cram it into the scene and match the shaders.

 

Whatever fits, fits. When in doubt, use bigger hammer.

kyoto kid

...will this work?

kwerkx

Look out, the one on the left just said "hey yall, watch this".. and I think I can hear the pixels straining!

kwerkx

tsroemi said:

I agree with richardandtracy, the transition seems a natural one, and I would say that it occurred rather gradually, with a timing that coincided nicely with my own growing acceptance of G9. By now, G9 and their stuff are a very welcome addition to my library, and I basically use G8 and G9 figures plus clothing and hair from all generations in a happy mix.

I agree with these sentiments.  My experience is that my G9 main has been slow to evolve.. waiting for body morphs, the right skin, and now I'm looking for just the right eyes.  With time, the store(s) will be well stocked and this won't be an issue for anyone until GenX.  As I move past this project, clones and pose converters are making it easier to mix G8 and G9 (and G3 I have a wierd preference for G3 hair).  So, G9 is slowly joining the others in my stuff.  

kyoto kid

...I take it you mean "Genesis 10" as GenX  was a product that allowed for the transfer of morphs and shapes between Genesis 1 and 2..  The last version GenX2 was for Genesis 3   .

There was no update of GenX for G8 as the PA passed away.. Gen X was succeeded  by Zev0's  Xtransfer for G8 which allws G3 morphs and shapes to be transferred to G8

Incidentally, morphs and shapes that were transferred to G3 with GenX2  can be transferred again to G8 with XTransfer and work rather well.. 

richardandtracy

Some, not all. I have tried to get characters from V3 to G8 and failed rather badly. Initially tried V3->G3 and G3->G8. Horrible. Then V3->G2 followed by G2->G8. Even worse. The bad bit was the bit using GenX2, made slightly worse by the next conversion. Now I've worked out how to TriAx V3, and the character is identical to the original V3 character but can use V3/V4/M3/M4/A3/G3F/G3M/G8F/G8M clothing... Need to improve the rigging, but my last (desperate) option of Wrap3D seems unnecessary for the moment. So.. there are options beyond GenX2, but become increasingly difficult/expensive. Regards, Richard.

kyoto kid

...so how do you apply TriAx to Gen3/4?  Would love to do that with A3

richardandtracy

I've done it with a tutorial using A3 as the example.. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/655676/tutorial-making-triax-figures-from-old-parametric-characters/p1

The image of A3 there uses G3F Hair & Top, G8F trousers and V3 shoes, and an iray setting for the skin. If you have V3 & M3 you can create rough autofit clones of G3F, G3M, G8F & G8M from four poses included in the tutorial and an additional set of autofit clone poses are included for V4/M4 later in the thread. If you have GND2, V3, M3, H3, SP3, F3, SF3, GV3, IV etc I also include a description on how to make those shapes into morphs and get clothes to auto-follow the morphs.

Due to the autofit clones being made from poses rather than modelling, they are a bit rough & ready and a fair bit of use of the smoothing modifier is needed. However - they're a first stab at it and Catherine's article https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/599231/making-clones-of-g9-tutorial/p1 shows how to make clones from modelling, more difficult but better. You can overwrite the first 'posed shape' clone later when you have time to do a better job.

Regards,

Richard

kyoto kid

..thank you...

Wonder if this could workfor the original Sadie as well..

richardandtracy

Don't know Sadie (is it this one https://www.daz3d.com/3d-universe-toon-girl-sadie), but if the character is a Generation 3 or 4 unimesh, then it will. If it's a unique mesh, then that's going to be rather more of a challenge - you're getting deeper into 'Making a character from scratch' than the A3 tutorial above takes you.

If the 'Sadie' link above is the right one, then I think the only way you can get the autofit clones is with modelling as per Catherine's tutorial. That does make it a lot more work.

Regards,

Richard

joshbolin75_c4ffe3e8c0

TheKD said:

If anything for g9 like clothes or hair really catches my eye and my wallet agrees, I will just port it over to g8 myself really. As for characters, I already got a bajillion of those lol.

How do you port G9 Hair and Clothes back to G8?  I've tried with Hair and it for some reason lands the top of the hair in the characters eye line.  I just chalked it up to not being backwards portable, but if you know how I would love to know what you use.

When it comes to G8 to G9 - the Daz built in conversion works great, so my entire library of G8 hair and clothes can go on G9.  That being said,  I still prefer G8 because I still find it frustratingly difficult to make a woman's figure look 100% female in G9.  Distinct body morphs are still lacking.  The fact that nipples and navels were left off of the base G9 figure so you have to add them as add-ons is a real head scratcher.  A year later and G9 is still a miss for me, but I'm still waiting and watching to see how the product evolves over time.

When it comes to clothes and hair though, I'm seeing some really great items come out for G9 that I would love to use on my favorite G8 characters.  Would love to know how to port them backwards.

Serene Night

I have bought a lot of genesis 9 items, but to me, the primary reason I use daz is to render men, and I just don't like genesis 9 male.  

The way clothing sits high on the hips, the unisex and unsculpted torsos, and the proportions just feel real off  to me. Everytime I buy a piece of clothing or a hair style it seems designed for females. There is just something that doesn't work for me. It feels like I spend too much time trying to make it work, when it should look good without this amount of effort.

Genesis 8 seems to give more attention to the male figure rather than trying to do both, and I just prefer it.

columbine

joshbolin75_c4ffe3e8c0 said:

When it comes to clothes and hair though, I'm seeing some really great items come out for G9 that I would love to use on my favorite G8 characters.  Would love to know how to port them backwards.

Invest in Mattymanx' clone kit:

https://www.daz3d.com/mmx-genesis-9-clones-for-all

Seriously. It is easy to use (once it's installed, in the autofit dialog for clothing or hair just choose the appropriate "MMX clone" from the which-generation list), and I haven't had it fail on body clothing yet. It's a little less good with hair, but mostly does OK.

felis

Alternative for hair is to move and scale it and then parent to the head. Can be used in any direction, e.g. G9 to G8, or G8 to G9.

kyoto kid

richardandtracy said:

Don't know Sadie (is it this one https://www.daz3d.com/3d-universe-toon-girl-sadie), but if the character is a Generation 3 or 4 unimesh, then it will. If it's a unique mesh, then that's going to be rather more of a challenge - you're getting deeper into 'Making a character from scratch' than the A3 tutorial above takes you.

If the 'Sadie' link above is the right one, then I think the only way you can get the autofit clones is with modelling as per Catherine's tutorial. That does make it a lot more work.

Regards,

Richard

...yes that is the one.  There was an update by 3DU for Genesis (none after that) but she looks a bit different than the original.

alienarea

Serene Night said:

I gave g9 a lot of cash, but to me, the primary reason I use daz is to render men, and I just don't like genesis 9 male.  

The way clothing sits high on the hips, the unisex torsos, and the proportions just feel real unisex for me. Everytime I buy a piece of clothing or a hair style it seems designed for females, and doesn't have what I'm looking for.

Genesis 8 seems to give more attention to the male figure rather than trying to do both, and I just prefer it.

Genesis 8 also gives more attention to the female figure.

 

Timbales

alienarea said:

Serene Night said:

I gave g9 a lot of cash, but to me, the primary reason I use daz is to render men, and I just don't like genesis 9 male.  

The way clothing sits high on the hips, the unisex torsos, and the proportions just feel real unisex for me. Everytime I buy a piece of clothing or a hair style it seems designed for females, and doesn't have what I'm looking for.

Genesis 8 seems to give more attention to the male figure rather than trying to do both, and I just prefer it.

Genesis 8 also gives more attention to the female figure.

In terms of content created and for sale, I agree. In terms of figure, G8M and G8F are different figures, different meshes.

Shapes that have been made to date with G9 display some apparent limitations for characters other than women.