Let's appreciate/discuss today's new releases - more ongoinger thread

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  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,866
    edited September 28

    One annoyance i noticed is that the minute hand is slightly offset, so when both are vertical they don't coincide. I put them vertical so I could rig up a master controller for the time (which took far longer than it should because my formula needed correcting - but I got there in the end - took limits off the hand rotations, and allowed the Time slider to go from -12 to 24).

    ERC for clock time slider.jpg
    1915 x 1052 - 389K
    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • doubledeviantdoubledeviant Posts: 1,138
    edited October 3
    DS Grace Yacht

    What are the teardrop-shaped things tied to the rails of the ship?
    Post edited by doubledeviant on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,055

    doubledeviant said:

    DS Grace Yacht

    What are the teardrop-shaped things tied to the rails of the ship?

    I would assume either bumpers for docking, or some sort of flotation device.

  • columbinecolumbine Posts: 453

    I'll say this for the golden ticket business and so forth -- it does make it possible to buy some items whose list prices I consider downright hallucinatory at a price which I consider much more reflective of their actual value. I still resent the "priced for video store purchase" list-price methodology*, though, and always will.

     

    * Some of you may be too young. In the early days of videotape rentals, you'd see movies priced somewhere ridiculous -- like $100 a tape or more -- because they were priced not for sale to consumers but to video rental stores, who would buy at most two or three copies to rent out. Consumer pricing for videotapes came later. Even once there was a well-established market, you'd still see a film being in "store pricing" for the first few months of its availability to give the rental stores a leg up, before coming out at a more reasonable price for home purchase. In short, Daz' list prices appear to be merchant pricing, as resources for game developers and so forth. At least, that's the only explanation I can come up with for those list prices other than sheer, unsustainable greed, so I'll go with the former theory and give them the benefit of the doubt, because I'm a kind person.

  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,007

    Phx Thandiwe HD for Genesis 9 Feminine | Daz 3D   I like this character a lot. Phoenix1966 does some great work overall. I have most of their products from that other store, and some from here as well. yes

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,866

    columbine said:

    I'll say this for the golden ticket business and so forth -- it does make it possible to buy some items whose list prices I consider downright hallucinatory at a price which I consider much more reflective of their actual value. I still resent the "priced for video store purchase" list-price methodology*, though, and always will.

     

    * Some of you may be too young. In the early days of videotape rentals, you'd see movies priced somewhere ridiculous -- like $100 a tape or more -- because they were priced not for sale to consumers but to video rental stores, who would buy at most two or three copies to rent out. Consumer pricing for videotapes came later. Even once there was a well-established market, you'd still see a film being in "store pricing" for the first few months of its availability to give the rental stores a leg up, before coming out at a more reasonable price for home purchase. In short, Daz' list prices appear to be merchant pricing, as resources for game developers and so forth. At least, that's the only explanation I can come up with for those list prices other than sheer, unsustainable greed, so I'll go with the former theory and give them the benefit of the doubt, because I'm a kind person.

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

  • columbinecolumbine Posts: 453
    edited October 3

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Post edited by columbine on
  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 2,742

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,675
    edited October 4

    @columbine,

    there is a response to higher-than-you-want-to-pay prices, and that is to take advantage of the availability of freebies where they exist. Some are superb, some are good, then others are adequate or need additional work. You may find for your requirements that freebies fill enough of the background items that you don't feel you're investing excessively in single use models. Using freebies does come at a cost - but a cost in time rather than money. Freebies can work for you if you don't need to achieve an income/hourly rate from your images.

    There is another thing with freebies, if you use them heavily, it's nice to return the favour to other users and create a few freebies as a thank-you. That's when the real effort behind creating content becomes abundantly apparent, and the cost of DS content starts to seem less high.

    I use freebies a lot, and try to 'pay' for them by offering a few limited ones myself. It's nice to spread a little cheer around.

    Regards,

    Richard.

    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,692

    tsroemi said:

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

    DAZ products are tangibles. A true intangible is insurance, something you cannot see touch taste or feel. If DAZ products were intangibles, we would not need a 'mature filter' or a hard drive to put the products on. devil.

  • ShimrianShimrian Posts: 533

    daveso said:

    Phx Thandiwe HD for Genesis 9 Feminine | Daz 3D   I like this character a lot. Phoenix1966 does some great work overall. I have most of their products from that other store, and some from here as well. yes

    Thanks for highlighting this character. I didn't notice her initially, but looked after I saw your post and they did a great job with the promo images! 

  • Phoenix1966Phoenix1966 Posts: 1,670

    Shimrian said:

    daveso said:

    Phx Thandiwe HD for Genesis 9 Feminine | Daz 3D   I like this character a lot. Phoenix1966 does some great work overall. I have most of their products from that other store, and some from here as well. yes

    Thanks for highlighting this character. I didn't notice her initially, but looked after I saw your post and they did a great job with the promo images! 

    Thanks for the kind words from you both, @daveso and @Shimrian.  

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 2,742

    ArtAngel said:

    tsroemi said:

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

    DAZ products are tangibles. A true intangible is insurance, something you cannot see touch taste or feel. If DAZ products were intangibles, we would not need a 'mature filter' or a hard drive to put the products on. devil.

    Interesting! But you cannot REALLY see them, can you? Only with the help of a 3d viewport or renderer. Thanks for the insight though! 

  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 4,115

    tsroemi said:

    ArtAngel said:

    tsroemi said:

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

    DAZ products are tangibles. A true intangible is insurance, something you cannot see touch taste or feel. If DAZ products were intangibles, we would not need a 'mature filter' or a hard drive to put the products on. devil.

    Interesting! But you cannot REALLY see them, can you? Only with the help of a 3d viewport or renderer. Thanks for the insight though! 

    Ah but you can print them off in color on your printer, cut them out and then you have a tangible item!  

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,984

    With DAZ Studio, you get a free Character software with a free base figure.
    Optional Characters are up to ca. 30$ which is actually cheap compared to elsewhere. 
    Or just buy Maya, and add a figure to it for about 600$ to it for a similar quality.

    My disclaimer:
    Of course, I complain about figure quality here, that is my custumer's duty. It keeps pushing quality foreward. 
    Nothing gets better with only yay sayers. 
    But in all fairness, there is an acceptable quality for a reasonable prize here, that you won't find anywhere else.

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 2,742

    memcneil70 said:

    tsroemi said:

    ArtAngel said:

    tsroemi said:

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

    DAZ products are tangibles. A true intangible is insurance, something you cannot see touch taste or feel. If DAZ products were intangibles, we would not need a 'mature filter' or a hard drive to put the products on. devil.

    Interesting! But you cannot REALLY see them, can you? Only with the help of a 3d viewport or renderer. Thanks for the insight though! 

    Ah but you can print them off in color on your printer, cut them out and then you have a tangible item!  

    Hehe, I think that would be a derivative, no? wink - Not to push this too far and only because I stumbled on it, McKinsey does count digital products and software as 'intangibles'. I suppose it all depends on your exact definition of the word. 

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,692

    tsroemi said:

    memcneil70 said:

    tsroemi said:

    ArtAngel said:

    tsroemi said:

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

    DAZ products are tangibles. A true intangible is insurance, something you cannot see touch taste or feel. If DAZ products were intangibles, we would not need a 'mature filter' or a hard drive to put the products on. devil.

    Interesting! But you cannot REALLY see them, can you? Only with the help of a 3d viewport or renderer. Thanks for the insight though! 

    Ah but you can print them off in color on your printer, cut them out and then you have a tangible item!  

    Hehe, I think that would be a derivative, no? wink - Not to push this too far and only because I stumbled on it, McKinsey does count digital products and software as 'intangibles'. I suppose it all depends on your exact definition of the word. 

    Hmmmm. I see that. So do others too. Yea! I learned something new today for free hahaha!  Guess it's been one of those things we say nay and yay on. Back when I was in insurance we got boxes with software floppies and the tax department considered them tangibles. Things change lol.

    So . . . new products . . . I was carting the Low Poly walkathon  thingy and saw it needed the Hedgemaker and so did my dogs, so it's in the cart too. I bought the GP Monster Spider, thinking it would look cool in a pumpkin. Now I need a rotted pumpkin.

  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 4,115

    ArtAngel said:

    tsroemi said:

    memcneil70 said:

    tsroemi said:

    ArtAngel said:

    tsroemi said:

    columbine said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Have you looked at the pricing of 3D content elsewhere? The Daz prices may be more than you are willing to pay, but that doesn't make them excessive.

    Yes, I have, and I am perfectly prepared to deem them excessive more than I am willing to pay too :P

    (Honestly, I am not always trying to put you on the defensive, though I realize it probably feels like that. But I do feel like, given that these are all completely intangible resources -- and, for me, completely sunk costs I will never recoup -- they could all stand to be a lot cheaper. I've said before, and will probably say again, that for most items in the store, the 70%-off sale price is usually about what I think they should have cost to begin with. I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this, and you are all certainly entitled to.)

    Strategic strikeout in that first paragraph to show that I do get your point about the choice of language.

    Well, from our side of things it really often is quite a lot of money that's asked for something intangible - it sure is for me as well as for you -  but then again, from the other side, there's usually a lot of work put into the products, and some PAs do make their living off of what they create.  And then the store is so well known for its sales, I guess this needs to be factored in as well. So personally, I think the prices are at least proportionate. And one really only needs to wait for a bit for a good sale on any item, so there's that.

    Oops, just seeing we're in the Appreciation thread, sorry! Didn't mean to derail it. To reign it back in I can add I really like the Mopat product idea! Seems very useful.

    DAZ products are tangibles. A true intangible is insurance, something you cannot see touch taste or feel. If DAZ products were intangibles, we would not need a 'mature filter' or a hard drive to put the products on. devil.

    Interesting! But you cannot REALLY see them, can you? Only with the help of a 3d viewport or renderer. Thanks for the insight though! 

    Ah but you can print them off in color on your printer, cut them out and then you have a tangible item!  

    Hehe, I think that would be a derivative, no? wink - Not to push this too far and only because I stumbled on it, McKinsey does count digital products and software as 'intangibles'. I suppose it all depends on your exact definition of the word. 

    Hmmmm. I see that. So do others too. Yea! I learned something new today for free hahaha!  Guess it's been one of those things we say nay and yay on. Back when I was in insurance we got boxes with software floppies and the tax department considered them tangibles. Things change lol.

    So . . . new products . . . I was carting the Low Poly walkathon  thingy and saw it needed the Hedgemaker and so did my dogs, so it's in the cart too. I bought the GP Monster Spider, thinking it would look cool in a pumpkin. Now I need a rotted pumpkin.

    Take a Pumpkin, Gescon, then shaders for grunge, dirt, slime or whatever is the poison of your choice to reflect a 'rotted' pumpkin. 

  • SilverGirlSilverGirl Posts: 845

    memcneil70 said:

    ArtAngel said:

    I bought the GP Monster Spider, thinking it would look cool in a pumpkin. Now I need a rotted pumpkin.

    Take a Pumpkin, Gescon, then shaders for grunge, dirt, slime or whatever is the poison of your choice to reflect a 'rotted' pumpkin. 

    How would you get that semi-shriveled, collapsing-in-on-itself effect, though?  

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 2,742

    SilverGirl said:

    memcneil70 said:

    ArtAngel said:

    I bought the GP Monster Spider, thinking it would look cool in a pumpkin. Now I need a rotted pumpkin.

    Take a Pumpkin, Gescon, then shaders for grunge, dirt, slime or whatever is the poison of your choice to reflect a 'rotted' pumpkin. 

    How would you get that semi-shriveled, collapsing-in-on-itself effect, though?  

    Moving some vertices around with Mesh Grabber maybe? 

  • SilverGirlSilverGirl Posts: 845

    tsroemi said:

    SilverGirl said:

    memcneil70 said:

    ArtAngel said:

    I bought the GP Monster Spider, thinking it would look cool in a pumpkin. Now I need a rotted pumpkin.

    Take a Pumpkin, Gescon, then shaders for grunge, dirt, slime or whatever is the poison of your choice to reflect a 'rotted' pumpkin. 

    How would you get that semi-shriveled, collapsing-in-on-itself effect, though?  

    Moving some vertices around with Mesh Grabber maybe? 

    Maybe for the geometry... I'd think the texture would still be off, but maybe less of an issue with a whole pumkin than a carved one.

  • NathNath Posts: 2,804

    https://www.daz3d.com/street-side-cafe is a cute-looking little set, but it looks to me as if the tables and chairs are ridiculously small in comparison to the building?

  • felisfelis Posts: 4,325

    Nath said:

    https://www.daz3d.com/street-side-cafe is a cute-looking little set, but it looks to me as if the tables and chairs are ridiculously small in comparison to the building?

    I would like to see a human character next to it.

    As of now, the table/chair must be for kids, or the house is owned by a 3-4 meters giant. 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,211

    https://www.daz3d.com/barnabus-ragwort-character-collection

    why does it need the base clothes addon?

    they are just textures AFAIK

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,055

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    https://www.daz3d.com/barnabus-ragwort-character-collection

    why does it need the base clothes addon?

    they are just textures AFAIK

    From the product page: 

    Taking advantage of the materials expansion set there are 8 character presets to affect face shapes, skin and clothing materials.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,964

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    https://www.daz3d.com/barnabus-ragwort-character-collection

    why does it need the base clothes addon?

    they are just textures AFAIK

    It does need... 'cause there's no new morph as well as texture maps in this collection but just a morph blending + color tweaking... etc. with Fantasy Figure and Clothes Add-On products ~~

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,692
    edited October 7

    SilverGirl said:

    tsroemi said:

    SilverGirl said:

    memcneil70 said:

    ArtAngel said:

    I bought the GP Monster Spider, thinking it would look cool in a pumpkin. Now I need a rotted pumpkin.

    Take a Pumpkin, Gescon, then shaders for grunge, dirt, slime or whatever is the poison of your choice to reflect a 'rotted' pumpkin. 

    How would you get that semi-shriveled, collapsing-in-on-itself effect, though?  

    Moving some vertices around with Mesh Grabber maybe? 

    Maybe for the geometry... I'd think the texture would still be off, but maybe less of an issue with a whole pumkin than a carved one.

    Thanks, had to google Gescon. It's in my cart. Yes shriveled and collapsing . . . I wonder if the Smoother Modifer would work at smashing it.I guess I could fake it with 2D planes.  The sites been revamped and things seem to work yea! Gotta love Pedatron! Always comes up with irresistable slam-dunk products. What a cool clan Barnabus makes. 

    Edit : and I like and carted the Street Side Cafe because I am a sucker for NPR.

    Post edited by ArtAngel on
  • HylasHylas Posts: 4,988

    https://www.daz3d.com/fm-dark-waters

    Looks good, but the water plane doesn't seem to refract the character the way an actual body of water would. To be fair, accurate refraction doesn't always look flattering as it makes characters appear shorter.

     

    https://www.daz3d.com/pillars-and-shadows

    Any idea why this latest Dreamlight environment is so much more expensive than usual? I mean it looks perfectly fine, but it looks like just another Dreamlight environment to me. For $40 full price?

     

    https://www.daz3d.com/ndfp-anael-bishonen-for-genesis-9

    Looks so good! Unfortunately I don't use G9 but perhaps this will inspire me to do more with some similar characters I already have (Kota, Linghu, Kaman, Yuji, Sasori, etc.)

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,675

    Dark Waters: How murky is the water intended to be? Unfortunately round where I live the water is so murky that almost nothing is visible through the water - so it could be realistic, even if unpleasant. 

    In one creek round here, 35 years ago, it was so polluted that plants died off 6" above the water level and the only life in the creek were mats of grey, hydrogen sulphide emitting bacteria. Fortunately that pollution has been stopped.

    Regards,

    Richard

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,332
    Love Anael's face, hate the overly detailed 'pec' shape that's unavoidable with G9M. I won't even consider Premier until that's addressed.
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