The reason why I rarely render female warriors

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Comments

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168

    Angel -wings, I hope you continue to avoid any subjects that do not appeal to you for any reason.  No reason to render a sexy Amazon just because the equipment is available in the store.  To the extent the topic has drifted to historic patterns of gender and war, here are some links on the evolution of human violence. Some folks interested in realistic war might enjoy them.  Warning, very nerdy.  cool  As fastbike1 pointed out, warriors were generally male (overwhelmingly male).  But I found the counterexamples in the thread fascinating. Cool links, zombietaggerung and timmins.william.. yes



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  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,754
    edited May 2017

    "Armor? We don't need no stinkin armor" or "Ew! His butt is hanging out!" LOL

     

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168
    edited May 2017

    While I think armor is way cool, I've never been into realism. 

     

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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,009

    Personally, a female warrior wearing loin cloth and a wrap bothers me much less than the chainmail bikini, because the first makes at least some sort of sense while the other is ... less so. (Unless there is something amazingly cool or artistic about the bikini, which is almost never the case)

     

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 404
    edited May 2017

    I don't render lots of female warriors either, but I do like female rogues, archers and barbarians, so I prefer those "chainmail bikins" and loin cloths over bulky full plates any day. When I want to render a female warrior, I usually go with a chainmail/leather armour with some extra shoulder/leg plates rather than full plate. I mean, if I render a female in a full plate, how does that differ from a man inside a full plate? if s/he is wearing a full helm with that full plate, it doesn't even matter if it's man or woman inside the tin can. But I do agree, that those high heels with an armour of any kind looks just stupid, and that plague infests chainmail bikini sets too. Luckily some medieval sets come with proper boots, so I use those with every fantasy set that only has high heels option.

    When it comes to full plates, those are quite rare sets it seems ( for both genders ). I can only suppose that making those solid steel parts bend correctly when you pose your character is a nightmare, and so most PAs avoid those sets, because it's a too big investment and uncertain if it sells. I probably would not buy, since those tend to be more expensive sets, and I have very limited use for those, but I'd love to have couple of extra boots ( without high heels ) for my ladies if any PA is reading this.

    Post edited by Mendoman on
  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557

    @ dracorn, many thanks, glad you like it :)

    Some encyclopedic reference of historical female warriors:

    The Encyclopedia of Amazons: Women Warriors from Antiquity to the Modern Era

  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,861

    I used to think the same way until I started mxing stuff together to create full armor.

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  • deleted userdeleted user Posts: 1,204

    I suppose my point being is that I would like to see more modest, and believable armor sets. Not saying stop making sexy armor, just to mix it up  a tad bit would be appreciated.

  • deleted userdeleted user Posts: 1,204
    nDelphi said:

    I used to think the same way until I started mxing stuff together to create full armor.

    those are real nice. ^.^

  • ZyloxZylox Posts: 787
    Jimbow said:

    Possibly the most practical (historical) armour you'll find is Swidhelm's Ironclad (Milanese) armour for M4 (although I think it's missing a leather strap on the chest). Used it for an image of Joan of Arc using G3F for the base.

    Is this still available, and if so, where? I couldn't find it in his store at Renderosity or ShareCG.

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557

    Google swidelms ironclad. First result should be what you're looking for. Be sure to read any instructions.

  • seeker273seeker273 Posts: 449
    edited May 2017

    You should put an H there "Swidhelm". Milanese in the Renderosity shop will get you the product.

    And that's a really great render there Jimbow. I love it!

    Post edited by seeker273 on
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,944

    the thing that will help you with good female armor for the g3f is the wear them all for g3f https://www.daz3d.com/wear-them-all-autofitting-clones-and-clothing-smoothers-for-genesis-3-female-s

    I got the male version already and the version for the girls is very hight on my wishlist, kitbashing without limits for the win!

  • gederixgederix Posts: 390
    edited May 2017

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSiiJ8uvc60

    /academicvoice - From a practical standpoint, plate armor with 'boobs' would be extremely dangerous to the wearer as blows directed at the chest would be deflected into the sternum, basically the opposite of what you want the chest plate to do.

    Having said that, I confess I do not care, I do notttttt careeeeee......... you get a chainmail bikini... and you get a chainmail bikini... and YOU get a chainmail bikini...

    Post edited by gederix on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,009

    In general, when it comes to rigid armor, I also prefer to not use autofit because it often makes the armor bend weirdly, even when we aren't concerned with bewbs. What usually works for me is placing and posing the rigid stuff (parenting when appropriate), and then using an 'under armor' of leather/chain (which can more reasonably hang right).

    But if it's just a chain armor, I also like to take steps to minimize distortion because, again, maille isn't usually form fitting. It's actually a good time to try out dynamic, so you can get it to properly 'hang' off the person. Or maybe find a properly 'hangy' light coat or hoodie and give it a maille pattern.

     

     

  • EtriganEtrigan Posts: 603
    edited May 2017

    While Angel-Wings' complaint is quite valid, I've been reading a variation on this thread for over a decade (when I first started lurking on DAZ). I have to say, though, that it isn't DAZ's (or the PA's) fault. Virtually any heroine since the end ot WWII, has been depicted hyper-sexually. In the 50s and 60s, a pubescent male's first fantasies were depicted in comic books, as they were too graphic for TV or movies. In what other media could you find a trussed-up damsel-in-distress? I think Supergirl wore a miniskirt before any appeared in real life. 

    The outfit strategically hid all the "nasty" bits with cloth, but just like our modern 3D shield-maidens, little is left to the imagination.

    I willingly admit, this was created and marketed to boys. Despite statements about heros for girls, this was pre-pubescent playboy.

    My point, nothing has changed except our male lizard brain will still buy this... or not... I don't, but only because I don't do fan or superhero art.

    For all that dislike the sexist depictions; create your own, but don't try to make it profitable.

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  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167

    PAVIATWAS
    Practical Attired Vicky In A Temple With A Sword

     

  • ZelrothZelroth Posts: 910

    I have had problems trying to get armour to fit right depending on the poses, especially Courageous and Defiant with their long tunics.  Thanks to this thread, I do have some new additions to my ever-growing wish list.  I am looking forward to possibly getting Knight Armor for Genesis 3 Female.  I do tend to render female warriros, but that is because I play D&D and a few other systems or genres.  Most of what I render recently has either been my character or a scene for a campaign that I am running.  So yes, I have fussed with kit bashing quite a bit to get something that will represent the feel of the armor that I want the character to be wearing.  I just have to say that many times I have been happy that I have options for Iray in the material settings.  Shirts and Jeans have been turned into "chain mail" numerous times

     

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167

    Female superheroes have just recently been starting to become more focal to the female audience. They are female writers and artists involved in this and because of this their situations have become multidimensional and identifiable to women. While I'm not going to lie and say I don't like seeing the scantily clad amazon kicking but and looking sexy doing it I think we are now being shown more images of women who are not objectified in this way presented as being just as strong and more importantly independent. 

     

     

  • JVRendererJVRenderer Posts: 661

    where's the 'fun' in 'practical' ?

  • TooncesToonces Posts: 919

    Just got added to fastgrab: https://www.daz3d.com/white-knight-for-genesis-3-female-s

    Perhaps the description goes a bit too far by saying 'for any kind of tank warrior'.

    But it's still more practical for battle than normal clothing. The lack of plating in some areas allows for greater agility and speed, two attributes which in tabletop games are extremely beneficial.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,120

    Well if you are talking comic books the men & women are drawn as human beings, sexual creatures that they are so how are you going to avoid that realistically? However, as a child reading those their character was good, bad, funny, or grouchy and so on, and sexuality didn't occur to me about the way they were dressed. Sexuality occured reading those comics when the character in the comic expressed sexuality so then I don't remember a time they did express their sexuality (I stopped reading them in '77 for the most part). It was restricted to boyfriend / girlfriend or husband / wife public social dynamic that a child doesn't really consider sexual but polite.

    So why are the comic book heroes, male and female, in revealing leotards and bright colors? Probably much more practical storytelling reasons: differentiate them from normal folk and non-heroes (you'll see criminals in normal clothing much more often than the heroes) and the speed and ease of inking a very simple nude to appear to be dressed in leotards - no clothing folds and wrinkles, no complex fabric patterns like flowers, paisley, or whatnot so I think this bit about insinuating that these human form revealing costumes and armour is done to sell this art and these stories is overstated. They are heroes and reading comics the reader expects heroism not sex just like a doctor expects nudity in a completely 'not lusting for sex' context.

    In the 3D art realm I think if you consider why armor is so popular it is in large part because flesh and metals are the two things that DAZ is best at 1) we known the painstaking work the artists do to get realistic skin but 2) portraying metals after that is almost like an easy realistic freebie, especially in iRay and you still have to consider that as in comic book days the heroes and to a lesser extent the villians need to be made unique and memorable. Only thing that I don't like is the modern addition of blood and gore to the old comic styles as it's sort of a dim equalizer spattered all over the page and detracts from the dialogue and plot which used to be quite over-the-top and comic. Well that and the price. Comic books are DAZ expensive nowadays, even more if you stick the the Platinum Club+. 

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,770
    edited May 2017

    Uh, female veteran here. There have been plenty of female warriors- both in history and mythology. Probably in mythology for a reason- because they were in battle too. 

    Came across this article a while back, which I found interesting: https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/10/03/better-identification-of-viking-corpses-reveals-half-of-the-warriors-were-female/

    Regardless, they are certainly in many modern day stories and artwork. Girls gotta have fun too, you know! With or without boob armor and battle panties! (And no, I never wore either in the Army, it was all combat boots and battle fatigues, baby! NOT a sexy look at ALL.)

    Post edited by Llynara on
  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited May 2017

    I saw these in the Poser 80% (add'l) off sale (apologies if they've already been linked).  You can get them for real cheap through the sale, if you don't have them already and don't mind autofitting/adjusting as needed.

    https://www.daz3d.com/battle-maiden

    https://www.daz3d.com/historical-armor-for-v4

    While as a male I can definitely appreciate some nice curves, when it comes to armor, yeah I'm all about functional/practical.

    My biggest peeve is probably armor with spiked heels.  Yeah, I'm all about the artists providing that/sharing their vison for those that want it, but it'd be nice if non-heeled versions of the armor boots were provided as well.  Sure, I can 'D-Form out/shrink down' the heels maybe, but soft, wet ground is the nemesis of spiked heels.  Not everyone gets to fight on smooth concrete...

    And yeah, I'm not above mixing and matching sets to get better body coverage.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,639
    edited May 2017

    Bullet proof vests can make even the most buxom chica look boxy and flat and square on top and slightly chunky  and yet somehow the female clothing no matter what must have visible and curvy breasts and look unbulky  

    My best friend Wears a d cup and her bullet poof vest was not a fashion accessory.  It was there to deflect bullets. 

    I usually just dial down most female characters breasts an use male products if I want more realistic fit

     

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    dracorn said:
    avxp said:

    Careful with Red Sonja. Conan (I LOVE Me some Conan - oh man, the Savage Sword B&W reprints are such a huge inspiration) ran around in, basically, a loin cloth.

    No shirt either...even though I know he's supposed to be from the 'north' they depected him in wintery climates with no shirt on. 

    But it's not just armor. Superhero suits are the worst.

    Chain maile bikinis!

    I've been to ren faires and comicons that have actual chain maille bikinis.  They are not nearly as uncomfortable as they look if they are well made.  the trick is smaller rings and the rings all have to be closed just about perfectly.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,885
    dracorn said:
    avxp said:

    Careful with Red Sonja. Conan (I LOVE Me some Conan - oh man, the Savage Sword B&W reprints are such a huge inspiration) ran around in, basically, a loin cloth.

    No shirt either...even though I know he's supposed to be from the 'north' they depected him in wintery climates with no shirt on. 

    But it's not just armor. Superhero suits are the worst.

    Chain maile bikinis!

    I've been to ren faires and comicons that have actual chain maille bikinis.  They are not nearly as uncomfortable as they look if they are well made.  the trick is smaller rings and the rings all have to be closed just about perfectly.

    And most fashion maille is made with substantially lighter alluminum rings...

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345

    Way cool, but would have been much more interesting if (a) the sound weren't muffled and I could actually understand her, and (b) the camera operator would take several steps BACK during the demonstrations.  Close ups just don't work here. 

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    dracorn said:
    avxp said:

    Careful with Red Sonja. Conan (I LOVE Me some Conan - oh man, the Savage Sword B&W reprints are such a huge inspiration) ran around in, basically, a loin cloth.

    No shirt either...even though I know he's supposed to be from the 'north' they depected him in wintery climates with no shirt on. 

    But it's not just armor. Superhero suits are the worst.

    Chain maile bikinis!

    I've been to ren faires and comicons that have actual chain maille bikinis.  They are not nearly as uncomfortable as they look if they are well made.  the trick is smaller rings and the rings all have to be closed just about perfectly.

    And most fashion maille is made with substantially lighter alluminum rings...

    Sometimes, although not always.  I don't actually own any of my own although I have considered making one.  I have tried several on though and was quite surprised, even the heavier ones where not too terribly bad. Would definitely want some cloth under them though either way if I actually had to fight in one lol.

    I love both actually, I have always loved the high fantasy, scantily clad warriors, both male and female and it has nothing to do with reality.  That's the whole point.  But I also like art that is more practical and believable and even for skimp ware, I loathe high heels.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,781

    Bullet proof vests can make even the most buxom chica look boxy and flat and square on top and slightly chunky  and yet somehow the female clothing no matter what must have visible and curvy breasts and look unbulky  

    My best friend Wears a d cup and her bullet poof vest was not a fashion accessory.  It was there to deflect bullets. 

    I usually just dial down most female characters breasts an use male products if I want more realistic fit

    I think this is a situation in which having the clothing act as a GeoGraft, hiding the breast mesh, would be helpful.

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