Underrepresented WWII Uniforms?
Boingo the Clown
Posts: 97
I was looking around the internet for WWII uniforms, and I was a little bit disappointed.
Nearly all of the uniforms I found were either American or German. One would think the Germans and the Americans were the only ones involved in the WORLD WAR.
Considering the fact the U.S. didn't enter the war until the end of 1941, who the heck were the Germans fighting for over two years?
As a Canadian, I have to wonder where the Canadian uniforms are, but there are other uniforms I am interested in.
Where are the British?
Where are the French?
Where are the Australians?
Where are the Norwegians?
What about the Soviets?
What happened to the Greeks?
Wasn't there some sort of axis thing going on? Where are the Italians and Japanese?
And what about the Chinese?
There is a heck of a lot of history that can't be represented if the appropriate uniforms aren't available.
Remember the time the Americans fought a heroic rear guard action, allowing allied forces to evacuate at Dunkirk in 1940?
Oh! Wait! That wasn't the Americans. That was the French.
Remember how the Americans managed to push back the Germans and capture Klisura Pass in 1941?
Oh! Wait! That wasn't the Americans either. It was the Greeks, and they were fighting the Italians.
Remember how the Americans captured the city of Bardia in Libya, taking 36000 German prisoners?
Oh ... That was the Australians who did that. The prisoners were also Italian.
Remember how the Americans held off the Germans at Stalingrad?
Uh ... That was the Soviets.
Remember how the Americans at Juno Beach were the only allied force to achieve their objectives on D-Day?
Oh. Wait. That was the Canadians.
And of course the Americans fought the Germans in Machuria.
Oh. That was the Chinese fighting the Japanese.
How about the U.S. liberating Holland, leading to regular cellebrations on May 5?
No. That was the Canadians that did that.
I guess you can see the point. There really needs to be a variety of World War II uniforms made available, not just German and American.
Maybe it would make for a great series of uniform packs with different variations, like various regimental insignia, or winter and summer accesories.
Maybe there can be weapons packs. BREN guns anybody?
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Comments
Daz doesn't have even proper nazi uniforms....
Nazi Uniforms are frowned on or even forbidden is some countries in Europe.
How about allied uniforms?
As you have noted, a general dearth of. I seem to recall seeing a 'Tommy' uniform over at 'rosity recently, but not sure if that was me just looking fot such stuff or if it was (at teh time) new. Tannenbaum (?sp) does some German uniforms for Gen4 figures.
Which service? Which division? Which threatre? Even which year? The problem with realistic uniforms is that they are, if not infitnitely variable, certainly divided into many forms - and if realism is the goal those differences are going to matter, with any individual purchaser likely to want only a few variants for only a few sides.
Indeed. I think this is part of the reason you don't see more variety in military uniforms from any period in world history; the time investment isn't worth the financial return that would be gained in the short term, which is where most PAs have to live.
Uniforms for Michael 6 is as close as I've seen. Its good, but its only a start.
It does seem like there would be a market for WWII realistism. If only the Allies, as it has been pointed out above, since German and other symbols are banned in many places. A lot of uniforms are similar to a good extent. Jodpurs, shorts, packs, belts, high boots - various takes on those seem to cover a lot of ground. Helmets seem to be the big indicator, at least to my untrained eye.
I would think just helmets would go a long way towards at least suggesting a particular time period/war. Like Helms of History except for more recent history and nations. Maybe a mix of classic WWI and II helms for the Western Alliance, and some not-so realistic but at least suggestive helmets to plop on targets, er, the other sides in those wars.
There are some amazing German uniforms at Rendo from tannenbaum
I've seen a few other countries' uniforms there as well, but I can't remember who by, or which character they're for.
One does not have to get into the intricacies right away. You need the basic versions first.
The rest can be done as add ons later.
It does not matter what Italian unit you are trying to depict if there are no Italian uniforms available. It does not matter what French unit you are trying to depict if there are no French uniforms. It does not matter what Japanese unit you are trying to depict if there are no Japanese uniforms either.
So make the base uniforms first. Then worry about variants.
It is better to put French units in French uniforms, even if they are just a basic version, rather than being forced to dress them as Americans.
While true, there is also the fact that content needs a significant market to be worth a content artist (PAs as they are called here) investing the time in. I suspect that's why you don't see more than just the US and German uniforms made.
Very true and also when talking about variants later, that will almost always be up to the artist since the vendor would have moved on to another project. Time is money afterall.
If the only reason items (including historical military vehicles) aren't allowed to carry Nazi insignia is due to sales in certain areas of the world, shouldn't it be relatively easy to just disallow transactions to users located in them?
My primary reason for wanting Nazi uniforms would be for parody art ('Grammar Nazis', etcetera), but I'd also love to be able to make fan-art for properties set in World War 2, too, like the 'Bloodrayne'/'Sniper Elite'/'Wolfenstein' computer games, 'Indiana Jones' films, etcetera. I've also really come to enjoy making 'bomber nose art' cartoons with Daz Studio and figures with Nazi uniforms would obviously come in useful for that kind of humour, too.
Same goes for Cold War-era Soviet Union uniforms, too.
Then simply make the items such that they can be altered by the users themselves.
For example; The Adrian helmet worn by French infantry was designed to have a division insignia badge mounted on the front of it. Instead of making one specific badge with an intricate array of polygons, make a simple shape that conforms to the front of the helmet, and leave it up to the user to make the shape of badge he wants via texture maps, opacity maps, and displacement maps. The same thing goes for patches, epaulets, and other items.
If a user wants to have his soldier wear the insignia of the Queen Own Rifles, let him put it on.
since we're on this topic for uniforms. i hope a pa can make a dress blue uniform. pleeease.
These sort of uses are actually allowed under the German law, as I understand it; what is forbidden is to use certain symbols in a manner that could be interpreted as supporting the cause of specifically designated groups, such as the modern Neo-NAZI or Islamic State (ISIS).
Let me ask this; if you had made a product to sell, would you rather have 400 sales in a month or 400 sales over two to three years, especially if those sales were your only source of income?
My only source of income is a disability pension that has only gone up 20% in 20 years while the cost of rent and groceries has more than doubled in that same period. A couple of days ago, I found out the students in the appartment building across the street pay as much in rent each month as I get for the month in total. 400 sales over two or three years may not be much, but it seems better than a kick in the head to me. It is especially so, since the only things I make for the internet now I give away for free.
I have never made clothing for 3D figures before, but now my interest is piqued. Are there any places to find tutorials on making clothes? I am willing to learn, and since there is an obvious niche market here, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't try to fill it myself.
(Seriously. I am interested.)
What are the basics of modeling clothing?
What programs are available for this task? Can it be done in Blender or Hexagon? (I have them both, but never use them.)
Can a poligonal mesh be imported into a program like Sculptris to add modifications such as wrinkles at the joints? (I've never tried Sculptris, but it is free and I would really like to give it a shot.)
How do I rig clothing and get it to conform to a specific figure without strange things happening, like a shoulder joint pinching shut as the figure's arm is lowered?
Is it difficult to fit an outfit to more than one figure?
How do I make clothing "dynamic"?
Since I do not have Poser, how do I ensure the clothing I make will be compatible?
How do I make the cr2 files and material files to apply the clothing to a figure, and apply the materials to the clothing?
If my attempts at clothing are successful, what do I do to become a vender? (PA, or whatever.)
I am hungry for information. Please feed me.
Like BOINGO's suggestion of WW II Commonwealth and Allied uniforms, would dress up some of my Amazons nicely -GOOD SUGGESTION MATE!
My suggestion; fimd SickleYield's tutorials on YouTube; she uses blender to make her content for DAZ Studio. She also did one that's been released in the store.
Let me ask you this, how can you be so certain of what you just stated? As there have been basically zero attempts at any WW2 era uniforms for a very, very long time, precisely what sales data are you comparing to?
WW2 could be making a "comeback" in media. The next Call of Duty, one of the biggest video game series on the planet selling 20+ million copies every single year, is going back to WW2 with its new release. That means ads on TV and social media, which means getting WW2 back into the minds of people consuming almost any form of media. For those who don't pay attention, CoD has not done a WW2 game for several years instead focusing on modern and futuristic action. WW2 in general fell out of popularity as a backdrop in gaming (in part because it extremely over used for a long time prior, people simply burned out.) The last CoD game based on WW2 was released way back in 2008. This lull in video games set in WW2 also happens to coincide with the lull in WW2 that Daz has experienced. Coincidence? There is also a PayDay 2 style (a bank heisting) game called RAID WW2 coming out very soon (the beta just started.) This game has a sort of Inglorious Bastards feel about it where former POWs go after Nazi gold. What's not to like about that concept? So you have a major AAA WW2 game and a popular independent studio releasing another one.
If you think gaming has no impact on this store, you may want to reconsider after browsing through all the products that have rather strong gaming inspirations.
For Vietnam, Ken Burns is releasing his next big documentary this fall. Anybody who even goes near PBS has and will hear about it constantly. (Seriously, I have never seen so much PBS hype for a documentary, its impossible to tune into PBS without seeing some promo for it.) This will almost certainly create new demand for more Vietman era artwork, something Daz could help provide.
Sales trends of the distant past are only one small piece of the puzzle. You have to consider what is happening right now, and what will happen in the future as trends can and DO change.
Daz is a world wide company. It doesn't make sense to ignore the vast majority of the world. Plus I am sure that Americans would also like to see uniforms of other countries represented for the simple sake of accuracy in their own renders. Just like the op posted, it would be hard to recreate many battles which saw action from many different factions. And as a country of immigrants, there are many people born in the US who have ancestors who fought for other nations in WW2.
As for how there can be very specific uniform designs for different divisions or even years, that can be a concern for later. People are just asking for something, anything right now, as pretty much nothing has been represented for a very long time. And frankly most people would not notice or particularly care about the specific uniform.
And finally, as I've once stated before, if the established PA's are just too concerned about stepping out for any risk at all (which in itself is a big danger to the health of this store,) then perhaps someone new to the store who has yet to establish them self could take this opportunity to impress buyers and create a budding fanbase for them. Think about Deepsea. Who in their right mind would have predicted that an old fat man would become a phenomenon in the Daz Store? Did you predict George's breakout success? Customers were asking for more varied men characters, but most people and PAs quite bluntly said "No, men do not sell, stop asking for them." Then along came George and he blew that whole argument to pieces. Then you started seeing more mature male Daz Originals. And low and behold, Michael 8 came out faster than any previous Michael. Hmm, funny how that works. Sometimes you just do not know how the store will respond until you actually create the product.
Making anything, no matter how mainstream it may seem to be, is a risk; ask BadkittehCo, who's had several flops this year and she's a well establlished vendor. PAs that depend on consistent sales to pay their bills on time can't afford too many items that don't sell well. New PAs can afford to do this, especially if they have another source of income to take up the slack for the products that flop.
I have a free text tutorial series on making clothes for the various Genesis figures also:
https://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-G1G2G3G8-Clothing-in-Blender-1-428585748
While making clothing can ultimately be fun and rewarding, making it to Daz3d standards is no small undertaking. It takes a lot of determination and, as someone noted earlier, it is very high risk in terms of time input to financial reward. With that caveat, it is very possible for any determined person to learn.
I will take a look!
What would be a good starter would be dress uniforms of WWII and then some of the clothing of the 30’s and 40’s as there is not much clothing that elegant, most of the clothes that out there reminds me of rags. Also what would be nice is some cloths for the future and or space. It’s something to think about.
1939 till well after the end of the war fabric was on ration in the UK (and possible Europe as well) so clothing was very basicn and people were encourage to "make do and mend". http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/8-facts-about-clothes-rationing-in-britain-during-the-second-world-war
Hi everybody,
didn´t read all the posts above to full extent, so maybe it´s all said, but here my findings:
At ´rosity you´ll find the mentioned German uniforms by Tannenbaum - they´re great! As well Tannenbaum has a Russian tank crew. With the latest set, a German greatcoat, you´ll find the full range from private to general in German rank insignia within his sets. With a little work on textures, I recoloured them to grey-blue and set up Luftwaffe rank insignia - you may find some first picture here: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/getting-ready/2761396/?p (the pilot has a re-coloured Panzer crew jacket and some adh3d USAF props ...)
For Non-German uniforms I´ll recommend Cybertenko: he has some Soviet and British uniforms yet and is quite productive right now - very nice sets, with a little effort you can work on the textures to implement own rank or unit insignia (just made some british para´s service dress from that recently, waiting to be posed and rendered ...). (By the way, with the Tommy Atkins uniform set (brit service/field dress) I have some issues with the shirt, see here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/195811/problems-with-non-conforming-clothing/p1.
Panko at ´rosity or vanishingpoint has some WWII arms in stock and some props.
So there are far from all uniforms represented, but quite some variety to start from. And U Y I - use your imagination ...
WWII American Paratrooper (also works for Korean War).
WWII German Fallshirmjaeger (Paratrooper)
WWII German Gebirgsjaeger (Mountain Trooper)
Nice catch outrider42! Now run, don't walk people and pick these up so we can show support so more can be made!
Already did been wanting outfits like these for quite awhile and best of all they are made by Luthbel & Luthbellina who make amazing clothing and a Stonemason set, what more could you want except more War Era Specific stuff, Keep it up guys you rock :D