Why so many female content releases?
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I never did finish the male version of that loincloth set. Maybe now that I've got my FBM transfer automated faster I'll look at it again.
Oh wow, yes please!!!!
This has been hashed out in previous duscussions, but no, there is this thing called a loss leader.... If Daz was to make a set based on Babylon with a new character, "Anit", and all the clothes, chariots, and temples to go with it... they will probably add a male character, "Marat". Marat will get less clothes and poses because he will just sell 1/10th as much as as Anit even for matching garments because people apparently make babylonian pinups...go figure. The niche marget isn't what drives Marat's sales; half of them will say that he isn't right for the project I'm working on and they can't picture the concept of an investment. Daz3d struggles because except for a small niche market, customers shun male characters so should they make "Iray Babylonian Beard for Marat" knowing that they will loose big change by the time it is done and few people will buy it?
This is something that customers can help with. First, support your vendors... one of the commentator in this thread, Male-M3dia, has easily made more male content than 50 of your average Daz3d vendors. In my case, I bought a character named Wynn years ago as an investment and support for the vendor and am glad of it. Sickleyield has provided so many tools and garments for male content that I look at her Deviantart content first to see what I am buying. Second, remember the rule of "fast, cheap, and good", as a niche market, you can have two of the three... male content will probably always be more expensive to make up for lower sales. Finally, encourage your favorite vendors to make more male content; Stonemason, for example, has made the rare male product and we should be buying the crap out of it to encourage him to make more.
I'm a software engineer, fairly new at it as I changed career, which is why I haven't got anything else in store; I plan to change that though. Folks don't seem to realise how much time is taken up producing a good product, and how much it costs to - something I discovered since starting my new job. There are certain products, that folks don''t seem to feel they are worth paying for the time they take to make; a friend creates artworks (freelance), and he can't get more than $15 for an item, despite the fact it takes anything up to a week to produce one drawing (and he is pretty good at it too); he does it because he loves doing it, but he still has to pay the bills, so also only does so many as his real job is what provides the roof, food etc, but he would love to do it full time.
Where???
Under his other label, Streetwear: https://www.daz3d.com/streetwear
Well crap I wish he hadn't stopped, those look fantastic.
Pretty much none of us question that he is the best of us. ;)
Err, if you had bought it, he might have thought it was worthwhile to continue...
Err, if I had been buying content during the very long timeframe when they were released, I might have.
EDIT: LOL I found the jeans launch thread and they almost broke me. I was good though.
This is a distillation of the problem: male content is not a big seller, people don't even buy it when it is high quality and inexpensive, customers blame the creators for customer spending habits.
This isn't a distillation of the problem. I was not spending money on DAZ. I was not a freaking customer at the time.
EDIT: Maybe you know some way to mail myself money back in time. Do share.
I don't mean you specifically... I mean the customer base in general; you could commision a bespoke outfit for a few thousand as an individual. The question is how to make a successful commercial ecosystem which encourages rather than punishes PA's who take a risk or a loss and make male content.
No idea.
In a free market economy, usually at this point somebody who's really interested in the male clothing market realizes the great untapped potential for amazing profits, and steps forward and builds a D|S Men's Clothing Empire.
Or, nothing changes because the market is a losing proposition, and this discussion comes up again next month.
Agreed... that is why these discussions seem to go in circles... no one seems to have an idea. Vendors have tried and the bulk of customers turn up their noses except for a niche group who just don't think they are trying hard enough....
When you factor in the poorly made, lacking morphs and ill fitting, there's even less to chose from. Yes, I know, it happens with both male and female clothing.
And, no, the daz marketplace is not the outside world and doesn't reflect it. How many men go to the shops to buy clothes for their wives, girlfriends, mistress, daughters etc.
There exists a possible solution to "democratize"
the risk...
Patreon.
For those who insist that more would sell if more were produced,
how about you commit to a small monthly commitment
to subsidize not only exlusively male content creators but the specific
"every day /regular" clothing items people always seem to request.
The PA could openly set the target number of subscribers
and the minimum monthly contribution Before he/she commits
his/her time & labor to male specific items.
If the targets are met, then the items are produced and submitted to DAZ.
Such a risk sharing paradigm would rather quickly determine how much of this
forum noise is actually $$real$$ and how much is merely
frustration driven bluster.
Uh. I like this all except the "submitted to DAZ" bit. I would absolutely donate to someone monthly to support content creation. I absolutely would not donate monthly to support creating something I then have to buy at the normal price.
there is not too much female content only too much sexist female content with high heels on battle gear, boob windows, shaped armour that would get her killed etc.
I am not knocking this, most renders are not meant to be practical, just stating the obvious that there is simply not as much realistic clothes that could be autofitted or dforced to fit either gender in general as renders are largely a fantasy driven activity.
Odd choice of words. I just re-read most of the thread and I did not see any comments that were that harshly directed at the PAs. I think the dynamic here is that the consumers are lamenting the state of the marketplace and PAs are tired of hearing about it. And as I noted earlier, if you discount all the impractical, implausible female skimpwear, the imbalance is not nearly as dramatic. I still find quite a bit of male options in the store that fit the numerous projects I've got going (just about to purchase the Lucian 7 Pro Bundle on the Holiday Sale).
"people don't even buy it when it is high quality and inexpensive"
That's simply just not true. Consumers are buying the male products. Certainly not as much as the female items, but they're buying them.
I think Wolf is saying that the completed items are submitted to DAZ (ie for sale) not that the money would be given to DAZ.
On the wider subject I agree with Butch that the way sales work here has little connection with real world sales of male/female items, and the fact that the proportions shadow each other is likely coincidental.
The main issue is that the vast majority of men render mostly female figures (and often exclusively females), whilst, based on comments from many of the female forum members here (plus what I see from female artists in galleries), then the majority of females also render mostly women as well (although naturally that is only a generalization, not all female artists do the same). As such the gender mix of 3D artists is not all that relevant to the arguement when both prefer female subjects.
The market has spoken. I repeat, the market has spoken in this matter. Daz3d is what it is because of its core market. What you see for sale is merely a result of a market that has already weighed in with its dollars. Trying to change this immovable force would be like trying to stop a locomotive in full motion. This is because of an obvious fact that many are perhaps not willing to admit: The demographics of the members of this forum do not make up the true demographics of the DAZ core market. There is a silent majority who more or less decide what gets produced by PAs and as always, money talks. You can gripe and gripe about your dream reality (Lord knows I have), but this silent majority is far too overwhelming. Ask the artists who make privately commissioned works on Patreon. They know. DAZ would not exist if not for those customers and yet those customers couldn't care less about men's clothes or fully clothed women.
It is good to voice your grievances. Get it all out. But at the end of the day, one must put one's own nose to the grindstone and solve their own problem. I know DIY is the anti-synthesis of the DAZ system, but in the long run, it is the only way to solve the problem unless those who want more male clothing will accept a higher price for them compared to female clothes. A high enough price structure could balance the scales for PAs and make it more profitable for them to produce for the market.
Not to drift off topic, but I'm curious. Is the DAZ customer base largely hobbyist? And is that what drives the female-centric market that we are discussing?
I use DAZ as just one part of my design toolbox. I do projects that range from real world commissions to storytelling, and most require a broad range of resources. Are designers such as myself in a very distinct minority here, and thus have a hard time relating to issues such as this that apparently drive the marketplace?
I guess I just naively assumed that the customer base was largely professional artists and designers.
there are some indeed but yeah the vast majority I speculate are ordinary folk wanting to render art they can call their own
There is a site which I cannot even mention or this comment will be removed, but they make celebrity lookalikes based upon receiving enough donations to meet a goal. Those who make contributions get the character upon completion, and it is sold on the site as a regular product after that. If the goal is not met, the money is refunded, and the model is not made. I'd certainly go for a scheme like that.
My fantasy product is a Luthbel-tailored Armani 3-piece with three collar types (separate mesh) for the shirt (with rigid mode buttons), separate open and closed geometry jackets with two lapel morphs each; a texture pack by Shox-Design, a texture pack by Luthbellina; shoes by chungdan. I'm too busy with my other chores to learn modeling and rigging now. So, until then I'll have to be content with what's available.
With Daz debuting products for the past four months at a +50% discount, it's hard to see how any vendor can make the money they're used to making.
My guess is 95% hobbyists, I'm one of them.
I wish I knew the answer to that (and to the Universe and Everything)! I find myself drifting more and more towards abstract/nonhuman renders, so not necessarly true.
Well as Havos said, men want to render females and women want to render females, what can you do
This is a recurring thread with reoccuring elements. ... I just realize you probably haven't seen most of them because a) the store changed its forum at least once so that some older postings aren't visible (this issue dates from before Daz Studio and Poser ruled the earth), and b) they get shut down by the moderators when they get too fractious. We are reaching the Patreon stage where the PA point out that it doesn't really help the store who are looking for simplier solutions, and that the few artists who have tried that route aren't swimming in cash and customers (I am pleased that Utilize released a G3 suit but I don't think they are going to be released very often}. My prediction is that everyone will become more and more frustrated with a problem that is a market problem rather than an artistic problem and sooner or later we will get too hot heated and a moderator will shut this discussion down....
I would be surprised if it is as high as 95%. The vast majority of the renders (test renders aside) I create are for my commercial projects, and I am sure I am not one in twenty here. Naturally the forums could have a higher percentage of commercial uses (I guess all PAs are commercial), but then how many of the non-forumites are hobby or commercial is very hard to say, even DAZ will not know, since you do not have to say what you are doing with the stuff when you buy off DAZ.
And I'm saying that I will not fund an artist to make an item that DAZ then sells to me.