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I would love anything like the Paul Smith stuff or that velvet collection. Most of the rest, too.
Nooooo, please DAZ no unless she comes with a legacy shape. She's not finished. :blank:
I have the morphing business suit bundle, and almost got the tuxedo, but the problem with both is they don't have anything like that crisp tailored well-maintained look. They seem rather as if they're a few inches too large and have gone through cycles of being thrown in a pile on the floor between washes [do I know what the latter looks like because I once put one of my own suits through it? -coughs-chokes-clearsthroat- Of course not and I have no idea where anyone would have gotten such a slanderous idea.]
I'm sure it's to address limitations of modeling for Genesis's extreme body shapes, and they're both beautiful pieces of work, but that look just doesn't do it for me and I haven't yet gotten close to "repairing" the MBS in ZBrush, so I don't want to touch the tuxedo which is even worse off, despite the way I was initially foaming at the mouth for it. I'm hoping the figure split in Genesis 2 will address this.
It's easy to go from "impeccable" to "worn but well-kept" or "ill-fitting but new," much, much harder to do the reverse.
I think the problem you're talking about is due to limitations with how smoothing and collisions work in DS. A conforming item can only be set to collide with one item in the scene, e.g. the figure body OR a shirt OR a vest, so creators have to make some hard decisions about how to avoid pokethrough. Additionally, setting the Smoothing modifier (needed for collision) applies the same amount of smoothing to the whole model, losing some detail in the process, and if a conforming item is going to have Smoothing turned on, there are certain modeling techniques that don't work well (or so I understand).
There's a feature request in for "smoothing strength maps" that I hope will help to address these problems in the future. Meanwhile, this is part of the tradeoff of versatility vs. specificity, I guess.
I'm sure it's to address limitations of modeling for Genesis's extreme body shapes, and they're both beautiful pieces of work, but that look just doesn't do it for me and I haven't yet gotten close to "repairing" the MBS in ZBrush, so I don't want to touch the tuxedo which is even worse off, despite the way I was initially foaming at the mouth for it. I'm hoping the figure split in Genesis 2 will address this.
Yes, good luck with that.
You can have crisp, or you can have morphing layers; you can have specific, or you can have versatile. They are mostly mutually exclusive. This is why the m4 "business suit" was one piece. That will in no way change with a new figure.
That does indeed explain it. Oh well, any time I want to use that set on Genesis I'll remember it's done with a Studio-only trick and save myself the futility of attempting it in Poser. Thanks for the info. ;-)
Gone for only one night and already I come back to see three pages of great points so far! Love it! :-)
You guys were even able to bring up some of the other important factors that I wanted to point out (and completely forgot to acknowledge directly in my thesis). There are in fact many other impacting factors each of you brought up that I think aren't being stressed enough here such as the fantasy wear that actually strokes a man's ego, marketing cycles between female and male characters, popular vendors that sell male content, male skins, and especially real world men's fashion. The main reason why I basically dedicated the thesis to the importance of hunkware is because it directly calls out the undeniably game-winning strategy that makes female products sell the most effectively time and time again: sexualized attire. This is also the theme that will continue to find its way back to the root the point.
Focusing more on the fantasy aspect, it has already been mentioned that as far as male appeal is concerned, Barbarians and gods are what exposes the most skin. Those sometimes sell decently as well, but what I find interesting enough is the fantasy items in particular that are more subtly provocative (as I also pointed out in the other thread). This is something that exists in the female side of the spectrum as well. For example, as seen in a particular promo from the recent Ms Magic for Genesis Female (not exactly fantasy so much as it is pageantry), even though she has the exposed legs donned in hosiery, the style and coloring of the outfit itself incorporates this aspect. The vest and bottom half are a subtle black while the dress shirt is an eye-catching specular gold. But the real "magic" that makes this piece interesting is the oh-so coincidental way the dark vest frames out the glittery chest area. With that said, this article actually reminds me of the Negase Hiro product (which actually is more fantasy). The subtle execution here is the execution of an open-chested with a vest that partially brings attention to the male midriff and clearly built in the style allows it's user to dress the male character as either a Pretty Posh Prince or a Sexy Shirtless Sorcerer. Again, these are things that PA's claimed have sold well.
Now, focusing more on clothing of a more practical aspect (and my personal preference, as many others) There are actually a few pieces that are perfectly sensible for modern everyday scenes that still give off a relatively attractive edge. A great example of this is the new item for Genesis 1, the Retro Party Wear dress. This is really nothing more than a typical summer dress with a shoulder-breast top. It's modern, it's actually very "real world", and it still gives its customers something to view. As for men, something I found very appealing was the Tank Tops And Undershirts Collection, which since it's a Gn1 item, works perfectly for both genders. Here, we get an everyday fitting shirt that allows men's angles and muscle details to be seen, much like the Octavis outfit. And since it is also a sleeveless article, it helps incorporate the exposed arm principle. I'm not sure how popular this item is, but it certainly helps contribute to the little what is in the Gen 5 undergarment department for men.
As for other forms of male fashion, you guys have already been doing fantastic jobs at providing your own references. Keep it up! :)
Do you mean something like that?
This is a little something (loinclothes and sandals, there is also a vest) I did for M4 a while back.
That's awesome Kattey! Me like.
Me too.. I honestly hope we get M6 prior to the release of yet another female character. =-)
That's awesome Kattey! Me like.
Thanks :)
That's why? I thought it was lack of desire to build and rig separate pieces. Again, Uzilite did it just fine. The M4 business suit has every problem as the MBS - except for a slightly tighter fit and no tossed-on-the-floor wrinkling - and more, such as the cylinder sleeves and pant legs, no creasing even. For what it's worth, I consider yours a massive improvement on it.
EDIT: ...never mind, that's right, the MBS was the one designed not to use smoothing/collision. So those aren't the reason.
The new subdivision modes should help with that, I think.
That does indeed explain it. Oh well, any time I want to use that set on Genesis I'll remember it's done with a Studio-only trick and save myself the futility of attempting it in Poser. Thanks for the info. ;-)
You can create one in Studio and export it, or if the jewels use displacement you may be able to simply duplicate the figure and set displacement so they sit just outside the skin like they should.
Another interesting tip! Thanks, I'll have to give it a try when I finish my current project. :-)
That's excellent. Do you have a link? I'd like to add my support.
I think there's probably more than one, and I couldn't find the one I remember, so let's support this one:
https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=42833
As for men, something I found very appealing was the Tank Tops And Undershirts Collection, which since it’s a Gn1 item, works perfectly for both genders. Here, we get an everyday fitting shirt that allows men’s angles and muscle details to be seen, much like the Octavis outfit. And since it is also a sleeveless article, it helps incorporate the exposed arm principle. I’m not sure how popular this item is, but it certainly helps contribute to the little what is in the Gen 5 undergarment department for men.
That product is very likely to be quite popular because it's very plain and versatile. They're genetic tank tops. Those can be used for a lot of different things, and easily mixed and matched with other outfits. Remember what I said about standalone shirts earlier in this topic, as far as Renderosity downloads? On average the plain shirts, even from non-brand name users, tend to have more hits than Jan's, Arah's, and Rose2000's gowns
I definitely noticed that among Adzan's incredible goodies, that his Still Life and Steel Aberrant outfits are by far the most popular-- Still Life is a formal suit while Steel Aberrant is supposed to be sort of a construction worker's uniform minus the gloves, hard hat, and grime (in other words, generic casual clothes-- which fall under the versatility category I've mentioned so many times.) That said, his Solar Solace outfit isn't something to shake a stick at, either, and I have to admit that it's my favorite of his outfits (partly just for the bracers) Oh, and FYI, if you have the Gen 3 iconic shapes, the entire ensemble of Solar Solace (except for the shoes-- though they don't look THAT bad compared to a lot of footwear autofits-- I think the sash also has some minor issues) look absolutely great on Genesis (provided you don't have a problem with
Also, someone made an argument using the MFD as proof that multiple clothing item collision is not a problem. The MFD is not an example of multiple clothing item collision at all, though. The MFD expansions contain clothing items which are PARENTED to the MFD, and for the most part do not collide with one another and Genesis at the same time-- instead, they are rigged to be compatible with Genesis and the MFD at once.
This is different from a business suit where you have a jacket which has to collide both with the base figure and with a shirt, tie, some sort of belt, and pants. And currently, collision physics in DAZ only allow for an object to collide with a single object. The same holds true for cloth simulation in Poser. That is the entire reason behind body/collision suits/socks in Poser and DAZ, and it constitutes a good half of what Sickleyield's fixes and workarounds consist of (I believe there's one in the Rigging system-- her breast fixer for Gen 1 and 2, hat and hair fixer, and clip fixer are based entirely on an invisible body suit, and I'm pretty sure it's one of the major uses people got out of the bodysuits for V4 and M4 as well.)
Uhhh, no. I made a statement that the MFD was versatile, morphing, multiple-piece clothing. Nothing to do with smoothing or collision.
The MBS is designed not to use collision, anyway. The product page even says not to. I gave it the same "well X needs to collide with Y so that makes designing awkward" pass before I realized that.
Havent noticed that this point has been mentioned and since it has impact on sales, ill write it:
Me, being a heterosexual male, dont find human males sexually attractive. Whether they are naked, partially dressed or fully dressed, makes no difference to me as far as "sexual" goes. Which, for me, makes hunkness or skimpness of male clothing items practically irrelevant.
Think of it this way: what would you or one of your male characters wear if you/he wanted to show off the goods in order to attract the ladies? Straight women dress sexy for the guys (and for their own pleasure too), I don't see why straight men wouldn't want to do similar to get the women's attention. If you got it, flaunt it. ;-)
Most guys, I think, like to wear skimpy wifebeaters to show off to the ladies. Or, they'll go shirtless. I'm not sure if they do anything to emphasize the lower half of their bodies or not-- I think it partly depends on the guy's preferences as far as comfort (a lot of guys seem to find boxers or going commando to be more comfortable than briefs, unless they decide to go jogging. Then there's the whole tentpole conundrum-- which I've read is worst with loose, baggy clothes. The tentpole issue is also yet another reason why those skintight scifi and superhero jumpsuits wouldn't be nearly as popular IRL as they are in fiction.) At any rate, I've never really noticed most heterosexual guys showing off their lower-body, either with tight clothes or skin.
To understand why people might want to have attractive male clothing, you simply neeed to imagine the ratio of men's and women's clothing sold in stores was proportionatly reversed. . Imagine all the recent female-only daz skimpwear outftis were hot sexy outfits for men. Then imagine every other store's clothing proportions were reversed. Imagine you had to comb the store to find underwear for your female model, because everything was all-men all the time. Imagine that the ads you see mostly feature men in bathing suits.
If you can imagine such a world, then you might see why some would want some variety now and then =-)
I personally would like more practical female garb of a practical cut with better fits, and better designed female clothing (including skimpwear) overall But not because I find skimpwear irrelevant, simply because more mainstream clothing suits my renders which feature characters who don't dress that way..
Since you asked, imagination /on :D
I would sooner think, a t-shirt with IQ number, unbuttoned shirt over it, denim pants and boots and "I havent shaved for 3 days" beard, thaaan something like that outfit on male figure on family friendly DAZ homepage picture. :D imagination /off
Male, as you put it, goods, tend to increase mass as well, which is not likely to get covered by ordinary wear like t-shirts and shirts. So, imo, same amount of flesh showing in male items as in female ones is something of a overkill, because, if you got it, it will be somewhat flaunted anyway. But than again, I could say same thing for most of the female flesh showing items. I tend to call them leather or steel or something, lingerie sets. "For 50% increase in protection, wear a corset." :D
I also wanted to add, that I don't really need poorly designed men's clothing. That means, I also want quality with the outfits I buy... Just because 'it is for a man' doesn't mean I'm going to buy a poorly made outfit simply because I need something to put m5 in. We get enough of that with poor Vicky and her skimpwear. =-)
So true! I'll take well-designed for both genders any day whenever possible. And as for ben98120000's idea of studwear ... cool! That would get even my gay character's motors revving, let alone all the Vickys in my runtime. ;-)
The sexual enticement is obviously aimed at heterosexual female (and homosexual males, of course). However, sexualized male clothing can be and sometimes is appealing to men the same way skimpware is appealing to women: empowerment. Women know that guys love a seductive vixen as men know that ladies love a Casanova superhero. You'll notice that in my original post I made it a point to analyse H5's Octavis. Something I actually didn't point out was that, not only was it capable of displaying Muscle Definition, but the fact that it was a fantasy action outfit, it sold well to males who may have the outfit reflective of their egos, the epic idea of a tough man kicking ass and taking names. The same argument is applicable to Night Out Suit, or any other suit for that matter; the idea of a guy in a snazzy or fancy suit is often linked to money and success. This actually helps support Opal's social status argument.
Women find their confidence in beauty, men find theirs in power...
OK, to each his own. ;)
Perhaps its the generation thing. Havent noticed lack of toughness in John Wayne cowboy characters, for example. Havent noticed them wearing thongs either (exaggeration ofc). Warent they sexy to the ladys? Not many kicking butt girls at those times tho, as far as I have seen (who remembers Axa comic character?). Thats kinda more recent or more quantity recently development. I mean, sure, why not. But, butt kicking girl wearing bellydancer outfit, now thats something. Not entirely because shes kicking butt ofc and that kind of outfit doesnt make much sense to me in a fight, battle, war, etc. action environment, even on females, let alone on males. But, "we dont discuss tastes", so... Im done. ;)
Slippery ground indeed :)
Hmh. I'd say it is mostly:
1. There's still the perception that majority of the purchasers are heterosexual males which translates to "wants women in lingerie, wants men in macho outfits"
2. Said heterosexual males don't want to explain to their pals/parents why the site they visit has images of half-naked men in sexy outfits
3. People are still largely uncomfortable with anything that might be connected with homosexuality (even more so with males)
4. Testosterone fueled stuff is okay because nothing says "not gay" like seeing a guy in a wrestling singlet or in a skimpy barbarian outfit
5. People who make decisions in Daz are probably heterosexual males with tendencies towards conservative uprising (hey it's utah)
Does anyone recall the incident where some guy complained they can't visit PoserAddicts site because it is filled by half naked men (translation: it is "too gay"). As an answer Profotograf played the "I don't get the complaint but I'm used to European standards" card. However if you go to PoserAddicts side and start browsing around it's pretty obvious why a regular heterosexual male would feel uncomfortable there. It focuses more on men in skimpwear than women. It feels very gay.
So you are saying that we are still stuck in the "it is okay for men to put up naked women in their workplace, but not woman a naked man in the same place because it makes men feel uncomfortable". Because I am not finding the current DAZ3D shop work-safe this last couple of months. If that is it we don't stand any chance of getting sexy male clothes. ;-(
Realistically I buy next to no female clothes and I wouldn't be buying what has been offered recently even if I did because skimpwear, in either sex, does nothing for me. I believe less is more and the brain (imagination) is the biggest sex organ. Though I'm all for sexualising male clothes I also want that clothes to be realistic, versitile, and practical - I have often looked DZheng clothes but never buy because I'd never use them. Same as I looked at Godspeed and Gladiator for a *long* time, but bottom line, I'd never use them so I didn't buy them. I bought Men's Night Out instantly as I could and do use it. There were a couple of other outfits at the same time that weren't versitile - like the belt was part of the shirt - which I didn't buy. I am still buying M4 clothes to autofit to M5 because there isn't anything for him like it.
What I think has the *potential* to be both practical and sexy is shirt or trouser/jeans with lots of morphs for opening buttons and maybe off-the-shoulder presets, so you could have a series of renders of the guy undressing. A torn T-shirt would be nice too, flashing the muscle (I do have Smay's free morph for the Bad Guy T-shirt). It is what you can *do* with the clothes that makes it sexy, not just because they are skimpwear.
As to the underwear issue - I have M5 Pro bundle and a pile of M4 undies/speedos/loin clothes (Love autofit), yes M5 need more love there, and I hope Streetwear makes a pair of male cut-offs for his new jeans and give us women something to lust after, because I wont be buying female jeans to get her cut-offs for M5/6 ;-)
Maybe that is why female clothes sells more, because in lack of a male equivalant people are buying female clothes and kit-bashing to get what they want, especially in Genesis. Look at the Michael Inititive thread. ;-)
So I am looking for quality, realistic, practical, versitile male clothes, with the morphs that can use them in sexy renders, more that a mankini.
Yes, I think this is likely to be the most appealing to the female audience, to be honest. The question of "what would male skimpwear look like" is interesting from an academic sense, but "what would look sexy on men" is a different question, at least for many straight women. A combination of strength and vulnerability seems to be key, and a guy who looks very capable but seems to be about to take some time out for a more tender moment is very appealing indeed. :)
And, just to throw a different direction out there, here is my entry to a "my prince" contest from a while back. Note the clean dishes, folded laundry, fresh baked goods, and evidence of child care. ;)
Well, this thread quickly died... :long:
Anyway, I was over by a Macey's very recently looking at the nice suits in the display windows. I saw a nice array of suits that were simply stunning. If I had a camera on me, I would have snapped a few shots. Though, I was able to find an example of one of them here on the Macey's website:
http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/kenneth-cole-new-york-suit-black-solid-slim-fit?ID=466041&CategoryID=16499&RVI=Browse_3
I know SickleYield has explained this before, but still, it would be nice if G2M could get a suit that was more figure-fitting instead of the bulky mesh build...