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Yeah most of the time I can immediately tell a character that uses the Dawn base by the jaw/chin area, shoulders and the general look in the eyes where the iris is much larger than it should be and too far towards the center so they are almost crossed. And not many vendors attempt to fix this either, which attributes to the sameness people tend to say... especially in expressions. I think those would almost need rigging adjustments in the eyes of the morphs which is out of the ability of some vendors and users.
But it's taken me a bit to put my finger on why some people not fond of the character, and I really think your images point that out if I must be honest.
She lacks the general softness you see in the V4/Genesis, especially when it comes to morphs, which people attribute to masculinity. There's no softness in the face or body and that translates directly into the poses. Those hard lines are most evident in the lower face/jaw/neck/ears then go down into the hips/thighs and shoulder/arms. So it translates into vacant stares and stiff looking poses. I think Ramwolff is the only person that was able to put more softness in the body morphs and that was done from custom sculpting... and I think that's probably the only way you'll be able to put that in, then it becomes a matter of support as you'll either need to transfer the morphs from DS or have Poser Pro 2014 (or possibly Morphing Clothes) to get it into clothing.
But it does come down to a matter of taste, but with the face/body morphs being released and not really addressing those concerns, I think only those that know how to custom sculpt head morphs will be able to make unique characters.
Um ... isn't the title "Dawn ... am I the only one not fond of her?" just a teensy bit inflammatory? It's also self-evident that there a lot of people who are not fond of Dawn because this subject has been covered in other threads previously. Nothing new here - except maybe the SR1 update, which I didn't know was coming.
But, honestly, if you're not fond of her then don't use her. Nobody is holding a .44 Magnum to your head and asking you to "Make their day" by churning out loads of renders that you don't want to do. And the Del key is very handy when hovering the mouse over your content library!
I quite like her. She's different. Everybody is different. And that's why not everybody will like every figure that is released.
What about this? It's a mix of the Faces of Asia morphs, moved by me from Poser to DS.
In the meantime there is a DS version out that does a better job on the textures (I played with UE and SSS and got those doubled eyebrows, which are not on the original textures).
Is it softer?
(Honest question)
What about this? It's a mix of the Faces of Asia morphs, moved by me from Poser to DS.
In the meantime there is a DS version out that does a better job on the textures (I played with UE and SSS and got those doubled eyebrows, which are not on the original textures).
Is it softer?
(Honest question)
Slightly, but not really,if I have to be honest. Look at the back of the jaw, the body (collar bone and arms) and the iris that takes up most of the eyes. You can still tell that's Dawn as a base. Asian morphs are some of the hardest morphs to create (I pull what's left of my hair out whenever I try) because of what you need to do in the eye area, so I know those morphs aren't easy.
But it isn't the fault of the artist, as it's difficult to morphs those features out, like Gen3. That's why Gen4/Genesis are pretty popular because the base is versatile enough to morph it into whatever you want with minimal fuss. On my only play with with Dawn I spent an hour in zbrush then modo for the eyeballs just trying to soften up the facial features before I could even get to the morph itself. That's where I stopped as if I have to take that much time to get to the point to make it into what I want, then the base isn't versatile for my needs. Then I got G2M dangled in my face and I had to put Dawn aside to start working on my stuff (which should start coming out fairly shortly ;) )
Thanks for the answer.
Thanks for the answer.
No problem. I didn't want it to sound like I was being mean. I think it may be more with inexperience with low poly meshes and subdivision. You don't have much leeway with detail when you don't have many polys to play with; so it becomes important where those polys get laid out and how many should go where. (Kind of why G2 got split up into separate genders). I think it's a learning experience for everyone their first time out on how to make meshes and morphs. So as more people have experience playing with the subdivision cage for their morphs and learning tricks to add more detail to the meshes once they are subdivided, there will be better products on the market.
Na ... I am talking about this:
http://www.renderforever.com/
and you don't have to buy it.
It's free.
*grin*
Have fun!
More info here: http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?83864-AlfaSeed-has-given-permission-to-release-their-freebie-weight-mapped-V4...Forgot to thank you for the link Kerya. I seem to recall AS trying to do some work on the weight mapped V4, didn't know how that project turned out. I had to smile at the comment on the page about AS being perfectionists. I have a few abandoned AS items in my runtime from when I used to work more closely with them. For many content artists, they would represent finished products. :lol:
Although I still don't anticipate using Dawn any time soon, it has been informative seeing some of her fans and critics alike talk about what they actually do and don't like about her. I don't have any hands on experience; so it's been helpful for me.
What about this? It's a mix of the Faces of Asia morphs, moved by me from Poser to DS.
In the meantime there is a DS version out that does a better job on the textures (I played with UE and SSS and got those doubled eyebrows, which are not on the original textures).
Is it softer?
(Honest question)
Nice render, she looks very pretty.
I'm doubting that. More realistically, the Poser version of Dawn clothing will probably be able to be autofitted to the DS version, since that's a area that's lacking.
To add to that each person that want's to convert from Genesis or the Genesis 2 generation to Dawn will have to make their own auto fit shapes for Dawn to use for their OWN needs. It can not be shared as those shapes are, I'm guessing, copyrighted.
I was able to bring over parts of my SuperSuit set I made for Genesis to Dawn. It was allot of work but for my needs at the time, was worth it.
Once Dusk is released (male counterpart to Dawn) there will be a cry for auto fit shapes for M4 - Gen2 Male but again it's up to each individual to make their own auto fit shapes for Dusk to bring over clothing and hair from the DAZ figures. And most folks just don't want to bother with that sort of work.
I like Dawn but as a Studio user I feel very left out in the cold with very little in the way of native DAZ Studio support so it's been off putting for me as of late. I don't expect everything to be easy and click click click but it's more about skin texture sets, ethnic morphs, creature morphs..... and all of that needs to be made equally for both platforms not just DS or just Poser. Chris did state early on that Dawn was developed for BOTH platforms equally. I just don't think he realized at the time that it was going to become this skewed in content creation leaning more to the Poser platform.
If nothing else, this is kind of a case study of why a native figure for each platform ultimately doesn't work. Things always end up skewered towards one end and the other gets left out. And certainly vendors aren't thrilled to do things more than twice, such as double rigging, double morph setups, double ERCs, etc.
And most people don't realize that and just whine about how unfair the various vendors are when they won't make a version of X for another base figure...because it is often not just double the work. but more!
Agreed and after my own struggles with content creation I appreciate even more than ever the amount of work that goes in making clothing. I'm actually in the middle of making my own figure, a Pan or Satyr of sorts. Got it modeled and need to work on simplifying some of the details that will be regained using displacement or normal maps. He's far to rough to show anything and he's more of a dive deeper into content creation than I thought *I* would ever leap into but here I am. Rigging will be a nightmare so yes, I get the frustration of trying to make something for both platforms. It's ALLOT of work folks! Plain and simple.
I still think that Dawn is a great figure but as others have stated allot of the content providers that were on board in the beginning are totally MIA at this point. So it just leaves a few well knowns making stuff and allot of that, as stated, are making just for Poser.
I still have my BrunoD project as well as MarilynD on the shelf for the time being until the bug bites me again to move forward. I'm still waiting for Cath (Mec4D) to release her male project for Dawn (I think she named him Darren) but she's busy with projects outside of the industry iirc so she's been very quiet lately too.
So far, nobody's crossed the line into actually bashing Dawn ... or, if they have, the posts have been deleted. That's one thing I like about this forum: we're all capable of acting like adults here.
Oh, and I just got the email about SR1 being available. If you care, you know where to find her.
...got it too as well.
Downloaded SR1 but not installed yet
This is why I don't buy 99% of the premade characters for Dawn, unless something really catches my eye. Either the morph is unappealing, or the texture is.
For the premade chars I do have, I bash them together to create different characters.
I thought this one I did came out relatively cute. It's a mixture of the Doe conversion I did for Poser (original DS version by Dvl-Lvd), and Bow by Cybrea.
I assume that HiveWire3D updated Dawn recently? I'll download her soon to see if HiveWire fixed some issues that I was having. Thanks for the update.
yeah I just got the email saying it is available
Ok, thanks. Someone mentioned Dawn's jaw. Her jaw and chin look weird. Maybe it is the lighting in the promotional renders that make her cheeks and jaw look odd. Or maybe she has fewer polygons than V4. I prefer Victoria 4's soft jaw. But Dawn is free. I'll render some more scenes with Dawn just for fun.
edited for clarity.
I haven't read all of the thread yet...so please forgive me if I'm repeating what others have already said.
As someone who has made freebies for Gen1 and Dawn I thought I could maybe give you my perspective.
Like others I was upset with DAZ's decision to move away from the versatility of Genesis1. I still do not use and I'm unlikely to use Gen 2 because apart from the HD tech I can't see enough improvements to move from Gen1.
I personally got involved with Dawn as I was really tired of the community split and I wanted to see if the community could be reunited. Would I have done this if I hadn't been upset with DAZ? Who knows? I don't. I can say I really like Dawn and like any character is only as versatile as your imagination. I certainly haven't had any issues on that score. Am I anxiously awaiting the male counterpart? Yes!
As I make freebies I wanted to show my support for Dawn my making things for her. Simple...and I'm more frequently at the forum for her than here these days. Quite simply I like the atmosphere...
Overall, I think that the split into a Daz Studio figure and a Poser figure wasn't a good one. It is one of the primary reasons for me why I won't use Dawn. In some ways the resulting product support split with Dawn is worse than it is / was with V4. True enough, I also find her base shape not pleasing at all and the figure might've fared better with a less distinct base shape (for me anyway), but that is also something that can be amended by good morphs - of which there are not many around, yet.
On top of this I am very pleased with both Genesis and Genesis 2, so Dawn had only a marginal chance really to get used by myself. Too much investment for almost no gain for me personally. And Genesis 2 market support is actually growing lately, so I am frequently shopping at many different marketplaces again.
Still, I think for the market in general it was a good thing that she has been introduced and she gets used by quite a few people - she is just not my type of figure at this time. But it is early in the life of Dawn, so she'll probably grow some more in the future.
I'm guessing by now you kind of see the "united community' phrase was made by someone not a vendor nor a company, because that wasn't Dawn's intent at all and that wasn't going to happen. And you also see where most of the support lies; with Dawn, the split is more apparent.
I'm not a fan of choosing to use something just because I'm mad at a company or some philosophical notion. My money and my time is just too precious for that type of expenditure. It's different if you like something, but I'm not that emotionally invested in digital bits for that. That said, if you look at other stores, you're seeing G2F/V6 products being released over G1 because there are improvements in the general look and bending of the character and sales of those products are doing very well. So it kind of says not many people cared about the versatility, they just want their pretty girls in sexy clothing. ;)
I was upset at the split as well, but then putting characters together for both G1 and G2.. .G2 is heads and shoulders above G1 because I don't need versatility... I need my girls to look like girls and my men to look like men... in loin cloths and thongs. ;)
And I think my G2 men look better in them than my G1s (Though I guess that remains to be seen) ;).
Just a little reminder that we are keeping an eye on this thread and ask that you please do not turn it into a "War of the Figures"
Thank You! :)
lol, so true, for the boys to though.
A few artist from other stores have said they are happier making clothing for the Genesis 2 figures as the default shapes are more appealing and easier to build upon than the Genesis 1 neutral shape.
Someone mentioned artists learning from the Dawn release, I've also seen a few of those comments from artist saying that once they realised It wasn't so hard to make items in DS while using Dawn that they became more confident and started making for Genesis 2.
So i'm sure there'll be more for Genesis 2 at the other stores especially when newer artists come to market.
I think Dawns pretty nice and some of the artwork for the competition was outstanding, I'm also looking forward to the HiveWire Male, never enough men for me lol
With the Dawn SR1, setting up new or items from Poser in DS should be even easier with the AutoFit templates, which is good
I'm doubting that. More realistically, the Poser version of Dawn clothing will probably be able to be autofitted to the DS version, since that's a area that's lacking.It will provide an official set of projection templates to allow easier use of autofit and the transfer utility.
One point there has been a set of free templates since a few months after her release which were available through shareCG. Having created my own clones for genesis and V4 I've had no problems with wardrobe.
I have been autofitting Poser versions(including dynamic) for some time with Dawn... proof of my point, some of Lully's dynamics conformed to Dawn.
I don’t like Dawn either. Bends weird, looks weird and its just a female base, so there’s no versatility.
Too masculine, too blocky... and not that much that can be done with her.
I’f I had to stick with Dawn or Victoria 3, I’d pick Victoria 3 for sure, but my figure of choice is definitely Genesis by far. It covers male, female, monsters and all kind of characters perfectly. I can’t justify using Dawn instead of it or even V4 or V3.
If I'm bad will you promise to whip me with rubber chains till my furry little back is bleeding?? *snickers*
The only issue with Dawn's jaw area was there was no way to move the teeth up/down back/front but I think that's fixed.
As for poly count in the face it's quite robust. I've done allot of morphs for Dawn, none have been released yet but there are many.
Couple below...