No more poser stuff?
myotherworld
Posts: 605
OK I am starting to get the feeling that Poser is no longer supported here.
I can understand the genesis thing.
But what's with the other stuff that can be for poser?
today I spotted
Roman Doric Forum Starter Bundle
looks nice, think I will get that. But a quick check "Compatible 3D Software...DAZ Studio 4.6, DAZ Studio"
odd the seller has done stuff that was/is compatible with poser in the past?
this has not been the first
others I wanted to get are.
DAZ Water Pump and Grain Silo
and
Sci-Fi Industrial Colony
Motel
the list go's on.
so what's going on? not even an OBJ file.
I know that sellers are actively encouraged to make stuff DAZ Studio Compatible , when they make something for poser.
ok guess they done want my money or any from Poser users. your loss
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Comments
I dont know if this goes for all PAs but bluebird made a post about poser support
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/41639/#610762
People conveniently forget that all of this stuff is Poser compatible thanks to the DSON importer which converts the Daz format to a Poser-friendly version. There are countless new items which have poser companion files which include Poser specific materials as well.
In my humble opinion, Smith Micro really needs to update Poser to be compatible with Daz files properly. Daz has already put the ball in their court, so to speak, by making DS compatible with pretty much everything Poser-based. The sooner they add native compatibility, the sooner these issues will decrease.
The DSON importer quite frankly blows chunks, 9 times out of ten it doesn't work. I have dramatically stopped buying stuff here because most of it won't work in Poser. Its becoming very clear that Poser support at Daz is on its way out. Thankfully there are a lot of other sites out there that do support Poser and they have been getting my sales. Most of what i get here is older products, and add ons for things i already have. But I am running out of things to get here, Oh well, that is life
Users don't care for DSON companion file support, and I, as an artist, am not going to do two program-native versions of everything. Time is money. As Bluey said in the other thread, if it becomes financially necessary of course I'll have to do it; but right now I can't really AFFORD to support Poser even if I cared to.
I do a lot of products with features that depend on features of DAZ Studio itself, so there's that, too. The big bone rigs of Rigged Water, Articles of Punishment, and Tied Up! are all pretty impossible in the other program (let alone the rigging of the Mermaids, the sleeves of our furisode, etc.). I am madly in love with DS's Figure Setup, and it would take a lot more of a compelling financial motive for me to move away from it.
The case elsewhere is reversed, venders that sell here with DS support don't support DS at other sites.
The support for DS at one particular site has rapidly decreased lately. I've even had a vender who sells here and other sites tell me that they don't even have DS on their computer, but if you try to say anything there you are reprimanded and attacked here at least you can air your grievances
I have been holding out and making poser specific files for a long time. But I too see the end is in sight for poser support.
It is getting too hard to try to make poser files look as good as they do in d/s. The technology just isnt there to get as good results.
There was a time it was the other way around and poser was giving better results. But the market has grown alot since then and daz has really pushed the technology forward.
So we can only work backwards to keep compatibility for so long, then the time will have to come for a change. At this rate, this may be the last year where I bother.....unless SM pulls a rabbit out of their hat and actually does something with poser to make it worthwhile.
Right now the market for d/s sales is at least 5 times higher than the market for poser products ever was. So the writing is on the wall.
Rawn
the market HERE is for studio products, every other 3D site on the web is fully supporting Poser and none of them seem to be hurting,
I've started to make my own stuff, can't find what i want, i'll just make it. and if worse comes to worse, i'll go back to pencil and paper
It is all in the numbers.
I would question anyone who sells poser only stuff on other sites if they could pull in even near the numbers pa's regularly make here.
There is a reason the top artists sell here....and a reason that when they come here they rapidly become fans of d/s. Not because they get their arms twisted...but simply by the number of sales.
The d/s market has had an explosion over the last 2 years, people are saying quite clearly what they want, and telling it with their wallets.
well that is the bottom line, no one cares about their customers, the only thing that matters is making money
I've been using Daz more and more. Given my plan to semi-retire in a couple of years or so, I have to make some harsh choices. Spending on two programs is probably not going to happen much longer. DSON is like learning a whole new program, so I chose to learn to use Genesis in Daz, instead. Not as hard as I thought. Still learning. I was getting the hang of lighting in Poser, now I'm back to being crappy at lighting. I have the highest regard for people who can do products for both programs. And I appreciate the reasons why everyone cannot.
The point is that we do care about the customers...they are the ones who are asking for the d/s products, and we are supplying them.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Poser support for specific products only caters for that very small percentage of the entire Poser market because
A - they don't have the latest version of Poser to match the Daz counterpart feature wise
B - Do not want to use Dson or
C - Refuse to shop here because Daz is "evil".
Add that up and you can see why Poser support just isn't worth it for some PA's unless they see sales figures to justify duel support on their products.
Not every vendor started with Poser. I have talked to a few PAs who have never used Poser so they make their props for DS instead. You cannot fault a person for not supporting a program they dont have or use.
hah...well you do realize this is a business.
$$ is what keeps things running.
That is not true, the caring part. Just because we cannot cater for everybody due to costs (mainly time) does not mean we do not care. End of the day most of us do this full time, and if profits do not match time spent, well then caring for customers is not going to pay the bills and feed your family.
No.. but we do care that out families have food and a place to live. Doing this for a living means just that. We have to do what we can to make that living. It doesn't mean that we don't care about customers. But yes, sometimes you have to prioritize affording to eat and pay a mortgage over other peoples personal desires. I think most PA's try as hard as possible to do as much as possible that will please as many as possible. At least partly because it helps pay for that food and housing. But when there is very little return on a big investment of time and you have a mortgage payment due then you have to think about what is best for the family.
well what gets me was when Genesis was first being hyped by Daz one of the selling points was that it was going to be so much easier for vendors to support both Studio and Poser..... um ok
It is. Creating morphs for both is easy, Generating Poser CF files takes less than a minute but other things such as native material setup, clothing etc takes longer. Also the lack of smoothing & collision in Poser affects results and clothing has to be made to cater for both.
and it was......but that was over 4 years ago, and technology has grown, but poser has not kept up.
So what was easy then, has become harder.
Customers want products that can do more and more, and we have to keep up with that tech.
DAZ has done well to keep the software up to modern standards, and the pa's are working hard to try to ensure that their products do as well.
Like I said...I have been making poser specific files for years....but it is getting harder and harder to dumb down the new things that customers expect from the products.
The defining characteristic of customers is that they pay money for the offered product. If someone isn't buying, they're not a customer. Complaining that someone cares only about money and not about customers is like complaining that they care only about eating and not about food.
I think it is still true that DAZ Original products will still have Poser support of some kind if it is possible depending on the product. So this shift is just from PA vendors managing their own business decisions. To be honest I have bought alot of environment props without even checking because I assumed there was Poser support........... so now its just being aware and factoring that into purchase decisions. I disagree that Poser is somehow behind in technology... I like the way SM is managing the software... esp. all the video and webinars they have to support it.
Again, the latest version of Poser isn't too behind, but how many of all Poser users have it? Most new products that utilize the latest features between DS and Poser require the latest versions, and if that user does not have it, they do not buy the product because they cannot use it. End of the day that adds up. EG how many Poser users can use V4 and how many can use Dawn? See my point?
This is why V4 sales are still going strong. In Daz and with Daz content there is no such issue because everybody has the same version and it is available for free. The standard is the same, where in Poser its across multiple versions, each with its limitations depending on what version you own, thus splitting that market segment and splitting your profit margin depending on what versions you support as a content provider. This is why a lot of Poser Vendors still support Poser6 etc, because the potential customer base is still bigger than a product designed only for the latest version using features such as WM that is only available in there.
I'm going to do what everyone wants Poser users to do.... shut up and go away
Nobody is chasing you away, we are just explaining the decision making regarding product support in certain instances.
Hope that is not what you got from this thread.
All that was being done was illustrating how the market has evolved, and how we are working hard to try to keep the customers happy.
Unfortunately we cannot please everyone, so we can really only hope for pleasing the majority.
I still support Poser when and where possible... esp when its a prop type item. For clothing, I ping back and forth.
I think the thread title 'No more Poser stuff' is a slight exaggeration. As a PA, I've noticed the trend towards DS accelerating recently, but that doesn't mean no one makes stuff for Poser any more. I do, and I'll continue to do so. And I'm not the only one.
At the same time, I can understand the other PAs' comments here. I don't make figures (other than architectural ones), so I don't have to deal with rigging in 2 different programs. Add to that, the huge advances DS has made in every area of content development - figures, rigging and morphs - and I can see why so many PAs love it these days. (Which I find ironic, since when DS first came out, I was one of only a few who supported it). And frankly, Poser is starting to show it's age these days. The days of learning obscure and arcane UIs and non-standard shortcuts went out in the 90s. Poser really needs a good makeover.
But that's just my personal opinion. I don't like Poser, and in the 15+ years I've used it, I never have liked it. However, I see no reason to stop making content for it. But bear in mind, that's because it's not too much extra work for me. For other PAs, it may be a huge amount of work.
mac
It's happening.
Sure Studio is great but I began using Poser simply because the lights, materials, and rendering engine are ten times better. No matter what I do Daz renders always look too cartoony, and not in a good way but in an "oh that was rendered in Daz" way. And the shaders in Studio haven't even come close to looking as nice as Poser Materials no matter what I do. There is a certain vendor at one of the the other sites, name starts with a "C" that comes up with awesome products that look great rendered but can only be used in poser because they utilize the program and it's materials itself.
You see it's the actual part of the program that matters which is failing in Studio imo; and that is why I have to use Poser. If Daz could make a sincere upgrade in those two departments I may step away from Poser but until then I will continue to buy what will work in the program that I prefer to use.
Poser on the other hand is hard to keep up with, I still have 7 ;) But I did not have to buy anything to make my renders look great in that program, even on default they tend to look better than what I can come up with in my Studio. Even the eyes look glossy and real in default. But I will upgrade Poser just to use DSON so that I can use the render engine and material room with my Daz only figures. But that is a loss of money on Daz's end since that will take money away from the figures and props I would be buying here.
It isn't the figures that matter to me, it's what the program can do.
I'm not going to side with one program or the other but my money is going to go where it will suit me.
Though much of the time it is elsewhere.
Also, that whole idea that "Daz is evil' is just plain silly, I still support many vendors here even if I cannot use their products to the fullest. But that has nothing to do with either program but simply because I applaud what they do. Either way it is the designers of both of the programs themselves who went out of their way to make the divide and whether it was on purpose or not remains to be seen. That is all speculation, but the truth to the matter is blaming the vendors is not going to change anything. The damage has already been done.
We can always hope that they will find some way to make things more compatible for those of us on the users at both ends of the spectrum.