No more poser stuff?
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Your really projecting here. Someone else explaining why they have to make choices in order to support their families does not translate to telling you to "shut up" or "go away". You may not like what your hearing but your the one choosing an alternate and unrelated message for what your hearing.
I can't speak for content creation as the only modeling I've ever done was in Bryce (the program that got me into 3D art in the first place), but I am a DAZ user, a Poser 9 owner, and I shop and get freebies at a variety of content stores; so I think I have a good perspective on the customer side of things. Personally, I'm not a poser fan. A lot of people swear by the program, tho, so I bought it when it went on sale last year and at first it kinda felt like joining an exclusive club. DAZ Studio is free, Poser is not; so conventional wisdom (i.e. you get what you pay for) kinda implies that Poser should be the better program...but after fiddling with it for days just to get my content to work, watching enough tutorials to get the hang of the program, and setting up some test scenes and renders, I just wasn't impressed. Poser lost its luster pretty quickly, and a lot of the things I wanted to do were just plain easier and better in DAZ.
Now, other shops tend to cater to the poser crowd and to gen 4 figures. When I buy products from places like Rendo or RDNA I have to read the descriptions very carefully, and even then a lot of vendors list their products as not being compatible with DAZ Studio, when the products actually work fine (usually its just materials that need adjusting). I can get gen 4 clothes to fit Genesis and Genesis 2, and can use most props and environments just fine. Now and then I might get a dud product I can't use, and...I'm stuck with it and I'm out that money.
Here, tho, I can be much more reasonably certain as to what I'm buying. The DAZ store is far clearer on what will work with which programs, and even if I do buy a product that won't work in DAZ 4.6 or GIMP (which HAS happened), I can return it and get my money back. So even if I had liked Poser when I bought it, and even if I had started using it more than Studio, I could at least be confident in buying a product here knowing that -- if I can't get it to work -- I'm not actually out any money.
Interestingly, this is a 'new' bundle of two old items - the Roman Doric Arch (sku: 16129) and the Temple of Mars (sku: 12485), both of which list Poser support.. Those sku numbers put the arch at least a year and a half old and the temple closer to three years old.
I dropped into this comment thread because I was interested in the topic, being a Poser user of long standing (since about 2005, if memory serves; my first copy was Poser 6). But I really don't understand where all the controversy is coming from.
I like Poser and I always have; it's easy to learn and use, and once you get past the scariness of the Materials Room, it's pretty durn powerful. I like the Cloth Room; Poser's dynamic cloth is a heck of a lot easier to work with than DAZ Studio's. And I absolutely love the multitude of built-in cameras (Face Camera, Posing Camera, Left and Right Hand Cameras) -- DAZ Studio has nothing like them! (And that's Item One on my DS wish-list!)
At one time, I had five versions of Poser installed on my computer: 6, 8, 9, 10 and Pro 2012 64-bit. Now, I only have one. And that's mostly because I'm now running Windows 8.1, which will not run versions earlier than Poser 9 (and 9 is marginal, at best). I also have quite a bit of content that I can no longer use in Poser, because the Python scripts are no longer compatible. Oh well; life goes on, science marches on, time waits for no man, and all that. So I can thoroughly understand why content artists and providers are starting to move away from it; getting content to work consistently and reliably across multiple versions of the same application is like swinging at a piñata!
On the other hand, I have used DAZ Studio since version One-dot-Uh-Oh and, until DS3 was released, I really didn't have a lot of respect for it; it was more of a 'close, but no banana' attitude. But that attitude changed with version 3. DS4.5 was another game-changer for me. (I'm still not all that enamored of the Surfaces tab, though, and camera support is still wanting; but I'm actually getting better at lighting in DAZ Studio than I am in Poser.)
The bottom line is that both applications are good; they're just better than the other at certain things. I still use both programs interchangeably, frequently combining both in my work-flow (creating, clothing and posing my figures in Poser, for example, and then importing them into DAZ Studio to construct the scene; yeah, I know, it's a bit weird, and there's a bit of pre-import prep-work involved, but it works for me). If a particular piece of content works better in Poser, then I'll fire up Poser; if it works better in DAZ Studio, then I click the DAZ Studio tile on the Start screen. It really is that simple. I honestly don't see why it has to be an either/or proposition, either from the artist's perspective, or the end-user's. And I certainly don't see any reason for the hostility toward an artist who chooses to focus his/her time and efforts to support one application over another.
Just my two-cents' worth....
normally I don't respond to threads that complain about the lack of products but...
Content Paradise, Renderosity, Runtime DNA and Hivewire 3D make products that you can use in Poser too. Can't find what you want in Daz store? Then take a look at the competitor's website because they may have what you are looking for. Just saying.
Or you can use Daz Studio 4 which is free. Want to use Poser Firefly instead? Export the Daz scene as an object and import the obj into Poser and render. I do the same thing.
ok, bye
Interestingly, this is a 'new' bundle of two old items - the Roman Doric Arch (sku: 16129) and the Temple of Mars (sku: 12485), both of which list Poser support.. Those sku numbers put the arch at least a year and a half old and the temple closer to three years old.
The Temple of Mars does list Poser but the item description states that it is for Daz Studio Only so the store page probably needs correcting.
Sounds great, if both programs didn't decide to up their game to the point of leaving the older versions incompatible.
See, where part of the problem lies?
LycanthropeX was right, it is all about the money, whether it is paying money for the program itself; or spending the amount of money it takes to own a program just on figures to get them to work (ie morphs, compatibility scripts etc.) it all revolves around who can get people to hand them more of their money.
The programs have gone the way of Gaming Systems, spend all on one, or a little on both, but don't ever expect them to work together for one ultimate goal and forever be frustrated by their games.
Many different things go into deciding what applications you are going to support when you make a product and any of them can rule out or make inclusion of a specific apps support necessary. Some of the things considered are as follows:
1. (Probably the biggest one) Does said merchant own the app in question? If a merchant only owns DS their products will only be for DS Only. If they only own Poser 10 then their products may only be for Poser 10 and up etc.
2. Do the versions of the apps I own all have the ability to do what I envision for this pack? If the answer is no then you are limited to what you have to work with that will do what you need.
3. How familiar am I with each app? Again, maybe the merchant owns Poser and DS but is stronger or more comfortable in one over the other or possibly they need to do something specific and can only figure it out in one app but not the other one. (For me clothes falls under this. I am primarily a Poser user but I cannot, after years of trying, "get" how to do clothes right in Poser. If I do clothes, I think they may be DS Only as I do find that workflow easier to understand atm though it doesn't mean I won't do any for Poser eventually. Maybe learning in one will help understand the other better over time but to start it may be the only time I ever do DS Only packs.) Ive hesitated and not done clothes or finished clothes now for ages because I want to support both but I am wasting my time and work if I keep getting stuck on the Poser end and just never finish :( That time you can't ever get back sadly :(
4. Has what I want to create all ready been done 200 times for one app (or figure) but not for the other? In some cases people choose to do items for DS and not Poser as there are all ready a bunch of something similar for Poser (it's been around longer) but not many or possibly any for DS that include DS specific materials etc. If there are a ton of something for one but not the other, then this goes into point number 5.
5. If I have both apps, am equally familiar with both, and both can do what I need then will the benefit for the added time to support two different applications be supported by the sales of the pack itself. This one does come down to a matter of money. It doesn't mean as a merchant the person trying to decide this doesn't care about one group or another. It means they have to weigh what they need to make for their time against the amount of time it will take, against what the sales will be (or what you guess or hope they will be. Sometimes you can be waaay off for better or for worse LOL).
As an example, we make environments often for DS and Poser and sometimes they can take us 2 to 4 months to do. The last major pack release we had though made us $650.00 (about) and took 3 months. Which means we made $54.00 per week on that pack :( Not real overwhelming LOL So maybe in that case it would have been better to pick one app over the other to limit the amount of time spent on the pack. This honestly is a tough call for most merchants and not a choice we take lightly. Most of us fret over dropping support for something if we have the ability to support it. None of us likes to do that, but sometimes you have to or you won't make even minimum wage. We've had packs where we would have done better with our time flipping burgers somewhere. I do realize people think "well but you do have forever to make money on the item" and that is true but that won't help with your bills for this month per say and older items in your store don't normally sell tons past their initial release. As an example, this month we've made like 300.00 on our back catalog. Add to that that merchants have bills etc and the fact you can work on something for months but unlike normal employment you don't get one dime till two weeks after testing and then the item releases and what happens is you end up falling behind on the bills and having to then play catch up and if the pack tanks then you're really into trouble.
Sorry that was long...just wanted to explain what we consider when we work on thing :) ATM we are supporting both fully (DS and Poser) but honestly it is getting harder to do that. The sales are not always there to offset the time of supporting 2 apps especially if what we are doing is something I don't know how to do in one of them :( Learning time can add even more weeks to things sometimes :(
Sheesh, PA's have it tough. I guess I'm a bit glad I have a full time job and create content on the side, more as a hobby than any attempt to do it as a living.
Still, this thread has been an interesting window into the challenges you guys face. As someone who has technically been using Poser a lot longer than Daz Studio, I can understand why there has been a shift. I saw it happening a while ago, and when Genesis arrived it pretty much decimated anything Poser could offer. When I realised how much it would cost to upgrade my version of Poser to get something remotely compatible, something Daz was offering for free, that's when I finally made the swap.
Poser still has some great features, but I really hope that SM gives it some love and revamps it for the new generation of technology. Considering that even back 'in the day' Poser users were still using Daz figures almost exclusively, I'm really surprised they haven't made a move to be more supportive. Surely it makes good business sense to include as much compatibility as possible so they can entice potential new customers?
Every time i see these threads, I get the distinct impression it comes down to the user not being fully aware of what each program can actually do which leads them to one over the other. I use both and even after years of poser use (version 6 first) I still get lost on many of the features and navigation, same for DS.
I used to be a poser only user and now use DS mainly. When reality for poser came out i was an early adopter and seeing as I had been using DS (and genesis) exclusively for over a year, I was very nervous at trying to figure out the DSON deal and getting back into Poser. After a few weeks with the new reality and poser again, I went back to DS for a faster workflow and better compatibility all the way around.
I honestly feel vendors should not use these features on their clothing by default, that they should be for user use only when a user needs help in fitting and not because the vendor is being lazy or just lacking attention to detail.
Um, with the fact that if they want to improve their products? A program can't remain backwards compatible forever without running into limitations and becoming grotesquely bloated and inefficient. I remember all the moans and outcry when Poser changed how materials were handled with PoserPro/Poser 5. And then of course there were the choruses of "Victoria 4? Who wants that? V3 forever!" And no doubt, sometime in the early Paleolithic there was an ongoing war over drum-net as to whether this new-fangled "clay" stuff was taking the attention away from good old rock-chipping.
In the end, whether you prefer DS or Poser, I think it's hard to argue that either product would have reached its current level of quality had the companies chosen to cater to the "trailing edge" of the customer base. And while many gnash their teeth and froth over the fact that Smith Micro and DAZ can't seem to get on the same wavelength, the truth is that, historically, competition has generally proved to be a far greater driver of innovation.than cooperation has. So although it may be annoying, the back and forth competition between the two companies has in actuality, probably been the biggest driving element in improving the quality of both systems.
I honestly feel vendors should not use these features on their clothing by default, that they should be for user use only when a user needs help in fitting and not because the vendor is being lazy or just lacking attention to detail.
Fit is vastly better with these available on the very best of items. How many Poser-native weight-mapped items do you own that 1. cover the thigh and 2. do not clip when the thigh is bent to 90 degrees? Our Genesis items don't.
OT
@ direwrath2000
Your sig. If I remember correctly, it's "Deep into that darkness peering . . ."
If the DSON system actually converted DS content into Poser native content, then you could make a case. That is NOT what the DSON importer actually does however. DSON does not convert anything into a Poser-friendly version. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this actually works under the hood. Pick a set of Poser Companion Files and open each of them with a text editor and compare them to native Poser files. (You can learn a lot by doing this - seriously, they are just text files and you can learn a lot just by reading them.)
PCFs consist of 4 parts: The erstaz Poser file (which is what shows up in your Poser runtime); a 2 line .py file (all .py files are the exactly the same); a .duf file which is like a snowflake - each one is different, and the .png which both Poser and DS read.
The erstatz .cr2 (or .pp2 or .hr2) is nothing more than a 2 line script that calls the .py (python) file - the python script calls the DSON subsystem (There is a reason that it attaches to Poser via the add-on framework). The .duf file calls the native .dsf file. And it does this for each genesis item that you load into Poser. Which I believe is why Poser gets more and more sluggish as you add each genesis item in your Poser scene. Everything genesis is being run through the DSON subsystem on-the-fly. Elegant if you have a single NV - sluggish if V has a full set of clothes and hair - 2 fully clothed genesis figures -fuggitaboutit.
SM isn't going to add native DS compatibility - they stated that 2 years ago. If you want genesis to work better in Poser, you need to pester DAZ to improve the DSON importer. After all, it is DAZ's code, and DAZ's figures, not SM's.
The DSON importer allows Poser users to use Genesis content by emulating the features that are not available in Poser. It's not perfect, however given the lack of quality figures using the latest tech in Poser, more users are trying it out. I'm seeing more Poser renders using Genesis 2 figures, so for some it's not the huge headache that some make it out to be.. although you will generally need a more powerful computer to handle the emulation.
It probably doesn't serve a purpose to lay blame at who needs to fix what to make content work better in Poser. But, both companies took risks almost three years ago, and DAZ's strategy has paid off with the influx of new users and users moving from Poser. I know my sales have tripled in the past 3 years and I can make a nice check of spending money even when I don't release something that month. Also as a side effect of each company's stand, my and a lot of other PAs revenue is coming less from Poser users, all while making more money.. which as a result you're seeing some PAs ending their Poser support in their products. While not totally ending support in my products, I'm thinking my future products will have only basic support as far as creating companion files and some testing; the materials creation is becoming not worth the effort. SM really needs to do something with their content development platform as evident from these threads that keep popping up from customers because of issues getting content using the latest tech from vendors.
Um, with the fact that if they want to improve their products? A program can't remain backwards compatible forever without running into limitations and becoming grotesquely bloated and inefficient. I remember all the moans and outcry when Poser changed how materials were handled with PoserPro/Poser 5. And then of course there were the choruses of "Victoria 4? Who wants that? V3 forever!" And no doubt, sometime in the early Paleolithic there was an ongoing war over drum-net as to whether this new-fangled "clay" stuff was taking the attention away from good old rock-chipping.
In the end, whether you prefer DS or Poser, I think it's hard to argue that either product would have reached its current level of quality had the companies chosen to cater to the "trailing edge" of the customer base. And while many gnash their teeth and froth over the fact that Smith Micro and DAZ can't seem to get on the same wavelength, the truth is that, historically, competition has generally proved to be a far greater driver of innovation.than cooperation has. So although it may be annoying, the back and forth competition between the two companies has in actuality, probably been the biggest driving element in improving the quality of both systems.
One could say that with the game system problem as well? Yes they have moved forward, but was it honestly for the better? Looks like it caused more headaches for their customer base then it did anything else. It did for me.
Indeed moving forward can be a great thing, but the gaps that were caused by both program developers were deep and damaging. What did they expect when they made such a foolish move? Nothing but praise? I am sorry but there are people who have spent a good fortune on this "hobby" over the years and who would rather not just throw all of that money and time away for something that is supposed to be better. New customers do not have the history with these programs, they did not spend all of that money to support both corporations up until now. No they are coming into this free Daz thing with freshly opened pockets and little to no old content; so it would be obvious that they hail the new studio as the greatest. They are not taking the hit that many others are taking through this.
I understand the anger, so do not be so quick to brush off these users who have have been the one thing powerful force that has made these companies what they are today. You don't award years of avid support with boohoos and a careless shrugging of the shoulders.
Trust me, I love what Studio is offering and in no way do I want to sound like I hate Daz or SM for this. But it seems like they are both reaching higher faster then many hobbyists can go. And when an impending uproar of frustration by users sounds out those users are blasted for not jumping onto the bandwagon and spending their hard earned money on the new stuff.
It's getting outrageous, now not only do we users have to worry about whether or not to spend thousands of dollars on a computer that can run the new version of our favorite programs but we also have to fret about whether a product can work in one program or the other, or if our favorite products or vendors are going to be gone because of this, or if next year a new program version will come out that will leave our "newish" program behind.
Each company is with fault, we just have to figure out where we stand with them both and go from there. ;)
Mr Leong -- "that" is too specific with the story, I prefer an unrestricted look at what the darkness can mean.
Hope that is not what you got from this thread.
All that was being done was illustrating how the market has evolved, and how we are working hard to try to keep the customers happy.
Unfortunately we cannot please everyone, so we can really only hope for pleasing the majority.
I think that you intend to stop supporting Poser in the future (it is what I have read in another reply that you have posted in this thread). Telling that you make things to please the majority (read DS users) is just unfair to your minority of customers (read Poser users).
By the way, I do not know why, but the extra reduction (up to 25%) does not seem to apply to your Svelldriki dragon when it is in the cart. It is still among the punch items the reduction should apply to (it was already the same yesterday). As you can see, the only reduction is the original 30% off...
If you're an old time Poser user who's been at it for 10 years like me, you probably don't NEED a bunch of new content. The back catalog has a tremendous amount of stuff in it -- and Daz has been giving enormous discounts on exactly those products lately. I don't know why we need all the new stuff, except for that voice in the head that keeps saying "Shiny! Shiny!" Tell it to shut up! :D (I know: easier said than done.)
As for props not working in Poser, I expect almost all of them convert fairly easily.
If you're going to shop here, it really pays to have a minimal understanding of Daz Studio. Even if you never render a thing with it, learning to convert items with it is probably a good investment of your time. Truly, learning to make good renders takes a massive amount of time. Learning to convert most content doesn't. And if you find that you bought something that you just can't convert, get a refund -- or ask for help in the forums. I find that people here are generally very helpful, as long as you're not coming to them with an unpleasant attitude. :)
I still see plenty of people creating Poser content, though largely on other sites. I personally believe that that in itself also speaks volumes about the market currently. People are complaining about the lack of Poser content when there are still plenty being released on other sites, so my guess is they're not really complaining so much about the quantity but the quality of said products. When the top names who are working on the best quality items are selling their wares primarily for Daz Studio it's clear that Poser sales aren't doing as well as Poser owners might like.
Perhaps fewer people are using Poser these days, or perhaps Poser users simply aren't buying much. Either way, people are always going to try and make products which pay their bills. It's why, sadly, I'll probably never see a K6 release and why even rival sites are starting to show a lot more Daz support.
There's no sense in spending months working on something that only a small few will purchase as it ends up costing you more in development than you can claw back. Even if you personally spent a lot of money on Poser content, it won't help that overall people might not be buying as much. With that logic, I've bought just about every K4 item going so market for youths should be booming!
I'm primarily a Carrara user. I do have Studio and Poser 10 (bit of a crock, being 32-bit only. But I was ignorant back then), but don't often use them.
The reason I don't and won't buy anything that's labeled as DS-only (and this applies to props and sets primarily) is that Carrara's handling of DS materials sucks chunks compared to its handling of Poser materials.
Ironic really, since Carrara is a Daz product. And a bloody good one, at that.
When it comes to actors, characters etc, it's the other way round, and Poser figures that are are badly handled. I guess that evens up the chunkage!
Thank you for your answer. :) I just feel frustrated to read that some vendors do not need Poser users to make a living and that some will anyway stop supporting Poser in the future. I shop here since 2002 because I am a PC member since the first day it started and I have always bought things from DAZ even when there was no compatibility between Genesis and Poser. I also ask for help here in the forum when I need some even if it is not very often. Anyway I do not believe to have an unpleasant attitude when I post something wherever it is because I always try to be polite and I also thank the ones who helped me.
That being said I think that what some vendors said is somewhat "shocking" though good to know... Also thank you for telling me that I have no need of new content... Wise suggestion! ;)
I still see plenty of people creating Poser content, though largely on other sites. I personally believe that that in itself also speaks volumes about the market currently. People are complaining about the lack of Poser content when there are still plenty being released on other sites, so my guess is they're not really complaining so much about the quantity but the quality of said products. When the top names who are working on the best quality items are selling their wares primarily for Daz Studio it's clear that Poser sales aren't doing as well as Poser owners might like.
Perhaps fewer people are using Poser these days, or perhaps Poser users simply aren't buying much. Either way, people are always going to try and make products which pay their bills. It's why, sadly, I'll probably never see a K6 release and why even rival sites are starting to show a lot more Daz support.
There's no sense in spending months working on something that only a small few will purchase as it ends up costing you more in development than you can claw back. Even if you personally spent a lot of money on Poser content, it won't help that overall people might not be buying as much. With that logic, I've bought just about every K4 item going so market for youths should be booming!
If some DS vendors have no interest in spending months and months working on something that just a few "old contemptibles" buy then no need that these "old contemptibles" continue to buy them. Logical I think. :)
Gees life is hard at the best of times, god forbid making it worse. (I still don't like the new dragon range though) I suppose I look at the world differently than most. It is all about choice, my choice not to worry if a PA makes this or that, it is their business, side line what ever, it is their choice. Yeah I get vocal about a few things but generally I take things with a pinch of salt and let stuff wash over me. Why bother about something I cannot change and I have no right to force that change.
Anyway the one who is to blame is the one who opened "Pandora's box" if I can say so...
I love that we can have this discussion as a community now. I really do. I am so happy to read all of these replies and see that no one is trying to start a flame war. When I started with DAZ as a PA, just the mere mention of anyone hinting about not providing Poser support meant a lot of risk for that vendor. How far we have come! :)
I’ve given my feedback on this here:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/41639/#610762
But will also add this:
Every Poser file in my environment sets are required to go through QA. I am not able to simply create and provide DSON files. DAZ kicks it back to me. If I could, believe me I would. But as a vendor I am required to provide custom material files in native Poser format. That right there was the rub for me.
From DAZ’s perspective this requirement makes sense. If the vendor is going to support Poser with environments and props then it needs to be done right. I understand this.
From my perspective, this is a painful time expense. My sets have an average range of 100 to 150 textures per environment. That means a diffuse, specular map, bump/displacement map and normal maps that all need to connect to channels. Materials need to be rendered to be set up correctly. I can’t just guess blindly. This means setting up lights for interior renders (which is not the same as lighting for simple one figure portraits), additional render time as well as the frustration of things looking differently between the two programs. It also means that every file QA has needs to meet their expectations. The Studio set could be just fine but the Poser set has issues and NONE of them make it through until the entire pack is approved.
When I dropped Poser support I experienced this:
- Sales that continue to increase. Have a look. My Motel bundle is #3 on the top seller list right now and it is Studio only. I am thrilled and humbled and.. relieved.
- My QA time dropped from an average of 4 weeks of back and forth to 5-7 days. I’ve always been stronger in Studio because it is the program I started with.
- I now have more time to make the Studio version even better. I’ve gone from rushing through my process to really taking the time to enjoy it and focus on increasing quality. This is why I re-released the Bright Loft and just pushed a free update to the Gymnasium for Studio customers. I have the time to correct the mistakes in the past and to prevent them with my new releases going forward.
My decision to stop supporting Poser kept me awake at night for months. I fretted over it. I even got grief from other PAs about it in the background. Hehe. It is why I took the time to wait and see and collect my sales data to back it up. This wasn’t easy.
At this point, though, it was the right call for my sanity, my income (yes.. this is a business) and my longevity.
Will I support it again in the future? I’m open to possibilities but I need SM to meet me in the middle with this software.
Unfortunately I don't see a future in a figure that it's major feature is genitals and the facial features are much to be desired. Clothing and character support will be nonexistent.. resulting in another dead figure. And that's really what going on in the Poser community, people releasing a ton of figures, fighting for a piece of the pie, but no where near the versatility of what they want customers to replace their old figures with.
There is a lot of hookerware for V4 out here - why should I buy yours?
Most of them can't answer the question. They make what they are personally interested in and they hope that they can sell it on. I don't do pinup art or fantasy art, 90% of what is sold at DAZ isn't of much use to me - and that doesn't even address the All Caucasians, All the Time of the character creators not named Male3dia. Anyone here ever do a count up of Caucasians to non-Caucasians of all varieties here? I have - it's creepy.
I think we've covered this several times, it simply comes down to this is what the customer wants. Vendor make what customers want.
Customers have less demand for ethnic morphs, as a result I haven't been making them... and my sales are increased because of it.
As far as DAZ vaulting the Gen4 figures, if that happens, I am sure the fine folks over at Hivewire will send DAZ a thank you card and flowers.
I doubt that DAZ will vault Gen4 figures for the forseeable future as long as people can use them.
I wonder how you do to know that someone who purchased one of your sets is a DS, a Poser or a VUE (or any other software) user.
I have never been asked to fill out a form asking for that information when purchasing anything here. I think that it would be interesting to know.
You can test sales by not having support for one app, verses dual support and see the change in sales. If leaving off support would have a difference in sales, then the sales of the item would reflect that. As Bluebird3D mentioned, she released a set with no Poser support and she had excellent sales, even getting top seller status. Several Pas, including myself have released items with no Poser support to see the impact sales in comparison with those that do have the support, and we have generally seen the same things.