No more poser stuff?
This discussion has been closed.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
That's right, I forgot them because I don't shop there. :D I quit because at the time they didn't appear to do any QA or testing - I would buy a .cr2 animal and it would have the .obj in the library area so that none of the files could be moved.
*cough*open the CR2 and change the reference path and move the obj to geometries*/cough*
Probably unneeded info now, but yanno.. lol :P
That's right, I forgot them because I don't shop there. :D I quit because at the time they didn't appear to do any QA or testing - I would buy a .cr2 animal and it would have the .obj in the library area so that none of the files could be moved.
*cough*open the CR2 and change the reference path and move the obj to geometries*/cough*
Probably unneeded info now, but yanno.. lol :P
I did. I was just irritated that this kind of nonsense was allowed in a commercial product.
You do not have to justify yourself, I was just telling my point of view and it is obviously opposed to yours. No hard feelings!
*cough*open the CR2 and change the reference path and move the obj to geometries*/cough*
Probably unneeded info now, but yanno.. lol :P
I did. I was just irritated that this kind of nonsense was allowed in a commercial product.
I've seen tutorials teaching to do this way, and I've bought (I think? I know freebies have) products that still have it this way. I also prefer them all in the geometries folder, though.
*cough*open the CR2 and change the reference path and move the obj to geometries*/cough*
Probably unneeded info now, but yanno.. lol :P
I did. I was just irritated that this kind of nonsense was allowed in a commercial product.
I've seen tutorials teaching to do this way, and I've bought (I think? I know freebies have) products that still have it this way. I also prefer them all in the geometries folder, though.
I guess it's a different standard they're held to then. If someone did that at DAZ there would be threads blasting the product, people demanding action and refunds, and general breaking out of the pitchforks. This happens at other sites and the response is "just fix the cr2".
Honestly, that is simply unacceptable in a commercial product.
In the end, I think there are simply some very big misconceptions about the size and profitability of the Poser/DAZ universe, and who buys what within it. A lot of folks, especially those who've been around a while, seem to think that it's a huge market. Whereas, in actuality, while there's a lot of product out there, each individual item is only going to be purchased by a very small number of buyers who happen to have an interest in that particular kind of product. And producing more, similar product only serves to dilute the market, unless some outside force alters the market itself.
That's the reason that DAZ Studio exists in the first place: the existing Poser User base wasn't driving the market quickly enough, so by introducing a freeware program that could use the same basic assets, DAZ brought in a huge number of potential new customers. Everything that DAZ does... from introducing new characters and tech to the kind of product they sell... is done with the idea of bringing in more customers and making more sales, so the idea that they would shun a part of the market that's making them a lot of money doesn't make any kind of rational sense. Ergo, the actual spending, in dollars, of the user base that uses Poser is clearly not as large a portion of DAZ's sales as many Poser users would like to believe it is.
Sadly, this also confirms the fact that skimpware really does sell quite well, which sucks for those of us who want to see more real-life type products. But I digress.
I think what IS safe to say is that the percentage of the overall DAZ/Poser userbase that uses just one or both programs has definitely been growing on the DAZ side. Whereas the interest level in the latest generations of original SMS figures has dropped precipitously with each new release. So, whether or not you agree with the direction that DAZ has taken in terms of content creation, it's clearly been insanely successful when compared to the path that SMS has been following. With that in mind, I'm far more inclined to think that DAZ has a better idea of what's best for this hobby, in the long term, than a company where Poser is their second best selling graphic arts product (number one at SMS is actually Manga Studio.)
I did. I was just irritated that this kind of nonsense was allowed in a commercial product.
I've seen tutorials teaching to do this way, and I've bought (I think? I know freebies have) products that still have it this way. I also prefer them all in the geometries folder, though.
I guess it's a different standard they're held to then. If someone did that at DAZ there would be threads blasting the product, people demanding action and refunds, and general breaking out of the pitchforks. This happens at other sites and the response is "just fix the cr2".
Honestly, that is simply unacceptable in a commercial product.
The people who make Poser, now Smith Micro, do this as standard. It is their standard way of packaging content. Every non partner figure included in Poser from Jessi in Poser 6 to Rex and Roxie in Poser 10/Pro2014 has the OBJ (actually an OBZ) in the Character library not in the Geometries folder. It is everyone else that uses Geometries.
Not saying it is right or wrong but it is their way of doing it.
I did. I was just irritated that this kind of nonsense was allowed in a commercial product.
I've seen tutorials teaching to do this way, and I've bought (I think? I know freebies have) products that still have it this way. I also prefer them all in the geometries folder, though.
I guess it's a different standard they're held to then. If someone did that at DAZ there would be threads blasting the product, people demanding action and refunds, and general breaking out of the pitchforks. This happens at other sites and the response is "just fix the cr2".
Honestly, that is simply unacceptable in a commercial product.
Then I'll bring up the fact that PoserCF organization is the worst, and nowhere near the standard of the DS side of the files.
For instance, in Libraries > Pose, I have the following..
DAZ Genesis
DAZ Genesis 2 Female
DAZ Genesis 2 Male
Genesis
Genesis 2 Female
Genesis 2 Male
etc
etc
.. along with a ton of other folders that aren't inside any of those.
Ideally, PoserCF should be held to the same folder structure as the Daz Studio Format is under DS.
Libraries > Character
Genesis (with subdirectories for Clothing and Figure CR2s)
Genesis 2 Female ( "" )
Genesis 2 Male ( "" )
Libraries > Pose
Genesis ( with subdirectories for actual Poses, Injections, and PZ2 materials)
Genesis 2 Female ( "" )
Genesis 2 Male ( "" )
etc.
You seem to be missing the point of economics 101. You seem to expect a vendor to create poser files as long as there is at least 1 person using poser files regardless of if they lose money on the deal or not, that is ridiculous. Loyalty is one thing, starving and homeless is quite another.
I develop addons for a game community with several different versions of the game. It has gotten to the point that the company I produce for and a few others have stopped development for the previous version of the game since the return on the investment in materials and time creating for both versions creates a negative money flow. Now all the developers i know in that community want to support all users, but those that are relying on the income to feed their family can't justify it, which makes perfect sense.
I do not believe that I miss anything and if I do then it is not intentional. Yes loyalty is one thing and money is another thing. Both will never go together. Anyway I do not expect anything from anybody because it is life and that you never get rewarded even if you are loyal....
Money talks. It's as simple as that. And we can see trends on our reports that say what people are buying. If you see the same amount of sales regardless of what support you provide, then it doesn't make sense to do the extra work, does it? So no it's not the same as coffee grounds or the crystal ball.
Yes, money, money, money... The answer is clearer and more appropriate. But the method to determine if you can get rid of Poser support is still shaky since you do not take all the factors into account.
I thought that money had no smell but for some people it seems that it either smells Poser of Daz Studio and it is deeply unpleasant.
I have thus put my purchases in standby because of this thread, ALL my purchases, the ones for items that are not Poser compatible and the other ones too...
Considering that I've been providing dual support figures for both Gen4 and Genesis for 3 years, I think I have enough data and trends to take everything in account. Doing M4 and Genesis figures in the same pack was costly, especially when the UVs weren't 100% identical requiring products to go through QA twice, that type of support was quickly dropped in favor of Genesis only products, which made more money. As the programs diverge, it eventually comes down to a choice.. and like it or not I got bills to pay. But I started making items because the types of things I wanted was being made. So that's always an option for those not getting what they want.
Bottom line is I am running a business and I have to make decisions regarding that. I can't keep in business by making things that don't make money or makes me popular.. the bill collectors don't understand nor take those or customer's emotions as payment. We live in a free market and what the majority of the customers want is what is made. You may think it stinks, that's only opinion. We simply can't treat our businesses like a charity service no matter what people think we should do.
I did. I was just irritated that this kind of nonsense was allowed in a commercial product.
I've seen tutorials teaching to do this way, and I've bought (I think? I know freebies have) products that still have it this way. I also prefer them all in the geometries folder, though.
I guess it's a different standard they're held to then. If someone did that at DAZ there would be threads blasting the product, people demanding action and refunds, and general breaking out of the pitchforks. This happens at other sites and the response is "just fix the cr2".
Honestly, that is simply unacceptable in a commercial product.
Then I'll bring up the fact that PoserCF organization is the worst, and nowhere near the standard of the DS side of the files.
For instance, in Libraries > Pose, I have the following..
DAZ Genesis
DAZ Genesis 2 Female
DAZ Genesis 2 Male
Genesis
Genesis 2 Female
Genesis 2 Male
etc
etc
.. along with a ton of other folders that aren't inside any of those.
Ideally, PoserCF should be held to the same folder structure as the Daz Studio Format is under DS.
Libraries > Character
Genesis (with subdirectories for Clothing and Figure CR2s)
Genesis 2 Female ( "" )
Genesis 2 Male ( "" )
Libraries > Pose
Genesis ( with subdirectories for actual Poses, Injections, and PZ2 materials)
Genesis 2 Female ( "" )
Genesis 2 Male ( "" )
etc.
But you're comparing apples and oranges. It may be organized differently, but it still runs correct? You do not have to edit files to get it to run because QA didn't check it, right?
I'm comparing apples to apples. Having OBJs in the same location as the CR2 works for me. I only edit them for the convenience of having all of my geometry in one location.
It may not be ideal to have the OBJ sitting next to the CR2, but it's never broken anything, at least not for me.
Reversed that is quite like the experience of DAZ Studio users in about every other store out there ... and DAZ Studio is free, so the initial financial hurdle is at least lower.
And of course it is a choice of the seller, in the end most PAs will do what gets money into their pockets - it is a profession for most after all, no charity.
Yes, I understand and I believe that you also understand that I feel the same frustration in this situation. :)
I'm comparing apples to apples. Having OBJs in the same location as the CR2 works for me. I only edit them for the convenience of having all of my geometry in one location.
It may not be ideal to have the OBJ sitting next to the CR2, but it's never broken anything, at least not for me.
But it doesn't always work if the paths aren't totally correct, ie mixing relative and absolute? However, it's still down to a matter of choice and the product still works, at least the there is some effort toward standardizing items as new things that weren't accounted for in the beginning comes along due to the constant development going on. Yeah it looks cluttered, but you can tell that they're not just standing still on enhancing their products. And that's pretty much what you've pointed out.
Yes, money, money, money... The answer is clearer and more appropriate. But the method to determine if you can get rid of Poser support is still shaky since you do not take all the factors into account.
I thought that money had no smell but for some people it seems that it either smells Poser of Daz Studio and it is deeply unpleasant.
I have thus put my purchases in standby because of this thread, ALL my purchases, the ones for items that are not Poser compatible and the other ones too...
Considering that I've been providing dual support figures for both Gen4 and Genesis for 3 years, I think I have enough data and trends to take everything in account. Doing M4 and Genesis figures in the same pack was costly, especially when the UVs weren't 100% identical requiring products to go through QA twice, that type of support was quickly dropped in favor of Genesis only products, which made more money. As the programs diverge, it eventually comes down to a choice.. and like it or not I got bills to pay. But I started making items because the types of things I wanted was being made. So that's always an option for those not getting what they want.
Bottom line is I am running a business and I have to make decisions regarding that. I can't keep in business by making things that don't make money or makes me popular.. the bill collectors don't understand nor take those or customer's emotions as payment. We live in a free market and what the majority of the customers want is what is made. You may think it stinks, that's only opinion. We simply can't treat our businesses like a charity service no matter what people think we should do.
I do not think that there is any charity in your store since it is a store. I have anyway not asked you for anything since it is just a forum in which we share our opposed points of view.
I will just answer this:
wilfred, an "old contemptible"
And I will thank the ones who found anything constructive in my different posts. :)
But it doesn't always work if the paths aren't totally correct, ie mixing relative and absolute? However, it's still down to a matter of choice and the product still works, at least the there is some effort toward standardizing items as new things that weren't accounted for in the beginning comes along. And that's pretty much what you've pointed out.
If the product doesn't work, then yes, I agree that's a major QA booboo. I was assuming having the OBJ with the CR2 was being frowned upon regardless of whether the product worked or not.
Since the thread seems to have reached the stage where opinions are merely being restated, and where it is now dragging in unrelated discussions that don't even relate to the DAZ store, we are locking it.