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I was referring to this part, which I think is amazing news!
faba should sell some presets that require the Fenric ERC for Carrara plugin. I'd love to buy a pile of those!
evilproducer should produce (at the very least) a fine setup for optimizing procedural shaders for Genesis (1 & 2) figures as well as for generation 4 and Predatron's LoRez people - perhaps even for the legacy Poser and DAZ 3D people.
McGuyver and others selling their models and/or particles systems, etc.,
Special modifiers set up to assist animators to use IK pinning, animated shaders, physics simulation setups, interesting uses of features beyond their intended use, like Fire primitive used as ocean waves, volumetric lighting setups or hair used as grass clumps, special presets for the Toon! render system,
All sorts of ways that I would spend my money to have something that you experts have already set up for me... it would be a blessing for me and many others to be able to buy more special presets and/or whatever which helps us complete our mission,
Mr Beck
I certainly wish you could somehow transfer your somewhat irrational exuberance over Carrara's future to DAZ. :) :)
But seriously, for anyone considering quitting their day job to jump into a Carrara content job, I'd suggest you take a more rational approach. You can't build a successful business solely on irrational exuberance and hope. Stuff like "more content means more users" is fine to say, but if you want to have enough income from the venture you need to be a bit more critical in your evaluation.
A lot of PA's and prospective PA's have jumped ship with regards to Carrara. Is there really a future that will support an content market solely from Carrara products? And why choose Carrara? D|S has far more users. And iClone seems to have FAR more developer excitement and support. And DAZ clearly seems to be keeping Carrara on weak life support.
Yeah, everyone could drop what they're doing and start producing Carrara content, but if there aren't enough Carrara content buyers then people will have wasted their time. It's all about supply and demand. If suddenly there's a huge supply, but the demand isn't huge, a lot of stuff will go un-sold.
A while back I discussed the difference between rational optimism and irrational optimism. I suggest that people emply RATIONAL optimism, not IRRATIONAL optimism. And if even DAZ, the developer of Carrara, doesn't seem to have any excitement or optimism for the future of the app, why could anyone possibly think that somehow the stars will align and magically out will pop an awesome, up-to-date, feature rich Carrara which will warrant any of our optimism?
When it comes to business, just be careful. Be optimistic, but rational.
Sorry Evil for saying anything that isn't positive....but you'll have to admit, it is somewhat rational and reasonable, don't you think? Oh wait, maybe not... :) :) :)
Thanks, diomede! I am very excited about it and thank you for your good wishes!
And on a more positive note (I know people here love positive notes... :) :)
A more rational approach might be to look to those areas where there are lots of users, but an un-met need for content, and at the same time a bright future for the app.
Specifically I'm thinking of Blender, but there are others. Right now, Blender makes Carrara look like a sad excuse for a toy that is 30 years old...broken and worn out. But Blender has, IMO, a huge opportunity for future content development, while offering a incredible array of excellent professional features and tools.
And it has lots of users, and an incredibly active internet community since it was developed by the community.
Personally, if it was me, and I wanted to develop content, I'd be looking for apps with a bright future, lots of users, and lots of cool features that you can use as a basis for your awesome content.
Well, unless you prefer to make some cool Carrara meatballs that kinda sorta look like blobs of water... :) :) :)
Joe, you know it isn't about being positive all the time. It is multiple threads at the same time, harping on the same issues over and over again, beating that dead horse into meat jelly that I have a problem with. It does no good and can only scare away potential new users. I have said time and time again, that there are real issues with DAZ and its handling of Carrara, and a rational discussion can be beneficial. Unfortunately, those discussions usually turn into either an over-generalized bitch-fest about all things Carrara and DAZ, and honestly, not all of the bitches are completely rational. The other way those discussions go, is to turn into some Point/Counter-Point pissing contest.
As I said not to long ago (paraphrasing), I have my own bovines, so I thank you for your kind offer, but I will have to decline as I don't need anymore B.S.
P.S. Here's a reference image. It's not from my bovines, but it looks just like it. Other B.S. does to.
I was merely responding to Mr. Beck, who resurrected this dead thread with a long treatise on how awesome Carrara's future is. I suppose you aren't tired of his "harping on the same issues over and over again", only mine?
At least my posts on this subject have some rational thought behind them, and some reasoning, and in this case even an intelligent recommendation. Perhaps you prefer the irrational optimism?
If others choose to beat the dead horse of "Carrara is awesome", then why not call them out on it?
I'll tell you exactly why. It's called "hypocrisy", and it exists solely to support your dislike of certain individuals.
You're right, Joe. Very much.
The BIG reason for DS being so popular, besides being FREE, is that it had the compatibility to work with Poser files - period. All of its problems that people didn't like were able to be overlooked to a certain point because of its compatibility. That part is SO important that DAZ 3D first contacted SM regarding their new technology before going full-steam ahead with it - and they've agreed (and later changed their mind) to implement Triax (Genesis) support. Since they didn't support it in Poser, DAZ 3D supported it for Poser from their end via DSON for Poser.
It is a different game, considering support products for Carrara. The numbers of users aren't even close and many Carrara users came to Carrara to get further away from having to rely on content. Your voice of heed against dropping ones career in place of creating assets for Carrara are so incredibly valuable. Making assets that simply come optimized for Carrara still appear as a Carrara-compatible search result, and will then invite more availability in the Carrara-compatible line-up as well as gaining access to the multitudes of Poser and DS users at the same time.
I am in a fortunate situation where I don't have to rely upon sales for vital support. But my new situation is set up around the idea of strategically putting in place a solid schedule for near full-time hours that I can dedicate to my personal Carrara endeavors, education in Carrara and Howler and my video editing software, and sharing with the community. I guess that the fact that I was eager enough to specialize in so many aspects of my job early on was a dramatically fortuitous way for me to be - and now it's finally worth something to someone, allowing me to make plenty of income in less than half the time. So I took it.
DAZ 3D doesn't need to take enthusiasm lessons from me! Those are some enthusiastic team-oriented people! They have become my friends far beyond just being my publisher. I cannot mention most anything that goes on behind the scenes... I just cannot. But I can say that they are amazing, wonderful, caring, and inspirational. At the bare bones, they have some of the absolute finest rigged figures on the planet. That didn't come from being negative and blind. Is Carrara just some dusty box sitting in a shelf of a forgotten storage closet? Not even close. I think that most everybody at DAZ 3D loves and respects Carrara and are happy to have it here. Much more than that about Carrara development, I haven't a clue. Luckily for me, I also just don't care. As long as they don't take it off the market or wreck it somehow, I'm happy. Yes, I would love to see some of the requests being implemented, yes I wish to see it grow forward into the modern world of 3D CGI. But the way it works right now has plenty for me to be absolutely grateful for, and even more to still learn how to use well.
The fact that artists in this realm have enormously higher sales selling to the DS/Poser community is why so many of them have dropped off from making Carrara-specific products. Does that put someone into a category of being a "sell-out"? Yeah... unfortunately I guess it does. But some of them actually rely on sales in order to live. For me, I feel confident in older Poser enough to make Pose items, and could then learn DS better and optimize them for that and, yes... reach a customer base that dwarfs mine. But I have found a workflow that empowers me with passion. It makes me feel good to be around, working with. That, to me, is more important than the size of my customer base. I am making products within my power that help propel my endeavors of animation. Products that, if they were already available, I would never have made, but bought. I am a DAZ 3D customer and, to me, most everything there is compatible with Carrara. I already knew that. But folks doing a look into a new software choice might just not know that. Anyways, I make my stuff to work with that content, not to be used instead of. Those example options I mention in my post above, I mention those knowing that I would glad pay for them instead of having to do it myself, even if I already know how. It's nice to heap up the possibilities. And everyone is so different from one another, we all make stuff that makes the next person go: "Oh, that's cool!"
I could really care less about the rest of it. I was merely responding to this taunt:
I was actually not going to say anything until I read the last sentence. There's no hypocrisy at all. You poke the bear and sometimes the bear pokes back.
Bad analogy... sorry! LOL
Yeah... I am very well known around anyone who knows me to be a bit off-kilter, over-optimistic, overly neighborly and friendly, loud and silly. Over-happy almost always and madly and passionately in love (eighteen years now) with my beautiful Wife. I romance her constantly. Luckily I've found a soul-mate that puts up with my sort of me.
I'm not sure if recommending Carrara enthusiasts to use Blender, or to make content for it is such great planning, but you'd know much more about such politics. I make Carrara content because I find Carrara to be far superior to my endeavors than Blender, Poser, DS, LW, Maya, 3DS, Modo, Messiah... so it's strange that you find me so irrational. It feels really nice to get messages from customers whom thank me for 'turning them on to' Carrara. For some of us, the fact that this excellent animation tool is not dead. Dead horse? Personally I was really impressed when I saw Blender's fluid stuff in use. That certainly made me look towards Blender. Sure, it has genius people constantly developing it. It's following its own path. Carrara, IMHO, doesn't need to be all spastic, trying to compete with those tools. It is more of a Poser/DS type of tool with a really cool modeling universe built right into it. And now, with the ability to model in the assembly room makes it even easier for us to just model anywhere we want in huge scenes - full of options that can automatically fill in where we don't have something else to put there. Everything from automated ground model creation and animated Ocean in motion primitive to atmospheres to skies with a plethora of clouds to chose from, fire, fog, camera-facing splats, global illumination with or without indirect lighting in a system that even my tiny laptop can manage to run.
Hating Carrara is one vote against the future of Carrara. Got it. Use Blender. I don't really care what anybody uses... as long as they enjoy using it.
I was not saying that the future for Carrara IS bright. I was saying that, by us getting together to make (and sell) more Carrara-specific products, we can improve Carrara awareness. Improving awareness improves sales. Improved sales on higher scales improves development cycles. The cool thing about Carrara is that it is already really, really cool to use without having to wish for the further put-out for a new version.
Dart, the dead horse comment was from me, about the multiple negative threads about the same thing. That's what Joe was referring to.
Nice pic o' BS!
Anyways, I still hold to my stand that Carrara can (and hopefully will) have a bright future. We'll see.
Exactly why we started the Carrara challenges.
At its best the challenge 'models' are a (head in the clouds) self fulfilling prophecy.
One model says:
1)By showing people what Carrara can do you with the Carrara challenges you encourage more users to either buy or start using the Carrara that they own.
(This assumes they are hanging around the forum).
2)Users learn from each. They make better work. Better work encourages people to use Carrara (assuming they see the work).
3)As Carrara user base grows people are more likely to buy plugins (eg Fenrics) or specific Carrara prouducts like Dart;s environ kits etc.
4)Increased sales will encourage plugin/developers to make more plugins etc for Carrara.
5)This enriches the user's experience, they make better work and attract more Carrara users to the software.
6) Daz makes more money. Daz is happy. Daz improves Carrara.
There was also the original support of kind Carrara plugin/ product developers who supported us by donating products and in return we tried to get more Carrara user awareness of their products.
Of course interest in the challenges has waned, very dissapointing that people didnt give it more support. Of course it doesnt have to be like that in future challenges.
Feel free to make your own 'model' on the usefullness (or otherwise) of Carrara challenges.
Carrara Price
In addition to this Daz has started selling Carrara dirt cheap - it has played skim the market on the pricing
The 'model' is you sell at a high price until you are no longer making new sales, then you reduce the price another level until you are no longer making new sales, then do it a few more times. Then at the end you either dump the product or bring out the next version.
So because of the minimal price of Carrara at the moment we are in a historically enviable position of attracting more users to Carrara.
One way of attracting new users is to underline Carrara's strengths rather than her weaknesses.
Strengths and Weaknesses
It's strengths could be -
1) 3d Painting. I've yet to see good examples of this.
2) The ability to model a complicated mesh around a Poser Figure and being able to use that figure in the same software: AFAIK Poser doesnt do this except with primitives? , Studio certainly doesn't allow you to model.
3) ? A good and positive community.
4) Price compared to other software that do the same or less.
5) Ease of use.
6) etc etc
Of course, according to the naysayers, her weaknesses outweigh her strengths at the moment - or do they?
An example is cloth sim. Which... ahem, could be improved....
Negativity
Everytime a potential Carrara user comes to this forum, reads some other user's post that puts crap on Carrara, another nail goes into Carrara's coffin.
For me Carrara works wonderfully because I choose to work with her strengths.
But even if Daz never updates it still is a wonderful piece of software.
Carrara's Future
As far as I can see the only things we have to worry about is that:
1)Carrara no longer works with the latest PCs or Macs operating system.
2) That Daz decides to no longer sell it and refuses to sell Carrara to another company - and that's not likely to happen because they know that the Carrara user community still buys dolls and mannequins and props etc to use in Carrara.
3) That some other super duper piece of software comes out and we all rush off and start to use that.
Sorry about the long post.
Just wanted to give the 'naysayers' something to think about.
Whether or not Carrara receives the attention I wish to see is somewhat irrelevant to me. As I have said before, I don't use the Daz dolls, so the recent upgrade was not for me... oh well....If I need to, I can make my own unique characters.
The important thing is that Carrara can do a helluva lot just the way it sits, if you have the patience, and give it your best.
Modeling, particles, many ways to make water or lakes, tree modeler, vertex modeler, spline modeler, importing characters, bones, modifiers, shaders, etc....it has it all in one package.
There are also quite a few plugins that really help.....work with em' and hopefully there will be more to come.
Carrara 8.1 & 8.5 works fine in the latest Windows OS ( Windows 10 TP 10049 )
Phew.. ;-)
Ditto
yes, Carrara is good, it's not important that Daz loves it, just that we love it :)
Carrara 8.1 & 8.5 works fine in the latest Windows OS ( Windows 10 TP 10049 )
Phew.. ;-)
wow I only thought we were up to windows 8.5 beta ;) phew !
Sorry I'm late to this conversation, but you guys should really move to a more sensible time zone... ;)
Most of you have seen my Folly Tower scene (it's a 100ft tall local landmark set in 4 acres of wooded hilltop), and some of you will know that I submitted it to the store at the end of last year, out of curiosity as much as anything. It got rejected as "interesting but needs more work", which wasn't really a surprise. But that's not the point of this post.
A couple of interesting points came out of that conversation:
1. To get into the store you need to be both Stonemason AND Howie Farkes (their comparison). That's the target you need to shoot for. Textures and shaders are everything. If you think it's good enough, think again.
2. They want a Studio version. They REALLY want a Studio version. Cos it's sell shed-loads more. I know that earlier in this discussion there was talk about "selling out", but frankly if that's what it takes to get stuff in the store... (which is not to say I'd produce something that didn't have a .car version) And if we're talking business plans, stuff that makes more money makes the money to make the stuff that's more fun but doesn't make money, IYSWIM.
Now, since then I've put in a heck of a lot of work and polish to that scene (although sporadically, since like a lot of folks my Carrara time is limited), and I've even built a Studio version - of the tower, at least. But I'm sure you can imagine I'm having a "little trouble" getting 4 acres of grass and woodland into Studio. I even tried a vastly reduced version (remember the duck pond?), but even that was too much. Ho hum! No one ever said it would be easy! Maybe I should split off the landscape and have it as an add-on. Now that's a thought...
Anyhow, if that ever gets done, I've got a Japanese Urban River scene half build, and an English Town Square scene half built, and a notebook rapidly filling up with ideas...
Unfortunately none of my stuff ever seems to be small scale! :(
Unless things have changed recently, they will accept Carrara only sets, but yes they want them to be of a certain quality. But the fact that they accepted my English Village, Fantasy Village and Night & Day City sets, all of which are Carrara only (and would be impossible to convert to DAZ Studio or Poser) is proof that Carrara only sets can be put out there. I got a similar response on my first version of Night & Day City - interesting but needs better textures. So I reworked the whole thing and got it accepted, and it is now one of my best sellers. So don't give up if you are committed to doing it, but it can take a lot of work. There is a big difference between something that you can use perfectly well for your own renders and something which will look good when anyone renders it from any angle in any lighting conditions.
What??? Are you serious? There's a Windows 10? What happened to 9? I'm still dealing with my dislike for 8.
Something that is constantly being bandied about is that, unless there is development, the software will die. Take a look at all the newcomers popping in here, at Hexagon and Bryce forums and you must come to the conclusion that they are still selling and in reasonable quantities.
Possibly hobbyists, at least, aren't too bothered about future development, but about price and whether the software can do what they need of it, right now?
I've been using Hex virtually daily for around ten years and still discover new things about it. It would take me forever to exhaust the possibilities of Carrara, as it is right now.
Having said that, of course there are things which are basic in other apps which I would love to see in Carrara, specifically dynamic hair that isn't allergic to the very mesh it was designed to fit on, proper dynamic cloth and fluid, a particle system that didn't take hundreds of tries to get to work "just so" and a Bryce-type height-map editor.
In fact, those are my personal benchmarks for upgrading - even if they were only available as plugins. So, here is a field ripe for plugin writers. Get some of those included and the world will beat a path to your door and Carrara sales and popularity will soar.
You'd better hurry, though, Studio already has Optitex and a separate development of a dynamic cloth plugin is underway, LAMH will probably go dynamic sooner rather than later.
Take a read at this http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_09 pages 20-21 and see if this is not hinting that Studio will be as functional as Carrara in the not-too-distant future.
For content creators, bear in mind that Daz is not the only vendor out there, although all the good ones also set high standards :)
One of my other hobbies is flight sim (partly because it's a hell of a lot cheaper than maintaining my PPL!). Now Microsoft Flight Simulator was last updated in 2006, but it's still going strong and has a very active user base and addon market. That's ample proof that software doesn't die just because the developer has given up on it.
Now, if I could figure out a way to export from Carrara into Flight Sim's bgl format ......
I’m probably a typical DAZ-to-Carrara user. I'm a sufficient ZBrusher yet I love Genesis, not as canned doll generator but as a system. DS is simply not dynamic enough for my animation purposes. 3 months after joining Carrara I’ve “invested” in my largest bout of Daz store shopping spree since I joined this community 3 years ago. So it’s not DS but Carrara that made me stay here and spend more, important to note I think…
And I don’t see apps fighting for parental attention, just synergy. To me Carrara is one the most accessible all-in-one CG generalist tools, a final destination for “Pixar-enough” animation and rendering on a budget. Daz Studio is the actor and wardrobe department “power plugin” to Carrara, and the pretty face of Daz.
Speaking of content...
Ideally Carrara content would be different from DS, gearing towards dynamic, animation-friendly content. I started my CG journey with game engine editors, optimization often on my mind, so love to see more products aimed at quick unfussy animation renders, and plugins to speed up animation workflow.
The Genesis-TriAx system is the anchor of this mini solar system. The fact that it is actively being incorporated into Carrara is a positive sign, and a smart move too...
Carrara occupies an interesting spot not just within the Daz3D family but in the CG middleware neighborhood: solid intuitive 3D world-builder and shader system, and canned DS actor/wardrobe system.
Thus it’s easy for Carrara to be more like Daz Studio. But tougher the other way round. Even with rumored-to-come physics and particle system, even if LAMH goes dymanic, DS will not suddenly get Carrara’s NATIVE Sketchup Lt + Sculptor + Terrain + Tree generator + Instancing power + endless hidden gems overnight...
DS users have no love for Optitex, prosumer artists also learn and grow. Better that they shop around then go with Carrara and remain close to the local store...
A concept bubbling in my head is Genesis-TriAx system as a ‘Substance Designer’ kind of plugin to Modo LW Blender, even Unreal Unity Source. If that’s what’s happening Carrara will be the ideal testing ground for Genesis-TriAx plugin potential.
The superb Genesis TriAx system deserves its match in hair, wardrobe and environment too... No need to wait for DS to become animator-friendly - with some basic renovation Carrara will be the perfect “Genesis in Motion” showcase. Imagine Genesis with dynamic strand hair flying amidst swaying foliage of Eden wearing some seductive TriAx-fitted flapping fabric more interesting than Optitex’s boring animation-unfriendly hand-outs!
And Carrara the “Dynamic Genesis In Motion” showcase area needs more RESPONSIVE real-time viewport and streamlined workflow. And of course, seasoned, earnest, long attention span, high quality users....like the ones I keep bumping into here!
While you are discussing the future of Carrara, take a look at the Beta thread and the latest beta release that got out yesterday with some new fixes.
Please download the beta and report any problems that you have via the support ticket system.
That really is a great scene and I can very easily see that being a selling item in the DAZ store, in fact I'm surprised they didn't jump at it right away, but I'm certain that will a little refining they will accept it and you can pick up some extra scratch from sales :)
As for making a big landscape scene like that fit within Studio... well, that's a challenge. Maybe make a smaller version within an environment sphere where most of the trees and acres are just background image? Or perhaps make most of the trees into billboards, something like DimensionTheory's Ecomantics (Studio does accept billboards, doesn't it?)
I absolutely agree that Carrara should be aimed at the Hobbyists that don't require constant updates to the latest and greatest inventions of the 3D CG world. There are plenty other apps competing for those titles. As much as I feel that any Carrara artist has the tools to put out professional quality work, I do consider that to be the boon of the hobbyist Carrara user, and a fact that can bring said hobbyists up the ladder as they explore and become more comfortable with their own abilities with the software and imaginative creativity.
The fact that it is so packed with so many features and functions along with file loading and usage compatibility all under one roof has really made me a happy user over the past five years. I have a friend (also a member of this community) whom was advised to buy LightWave by a tutorial author - and so he did. He loves it and is constantly stating that he will be weening himself away from Carrara forever. He never really had a chance to get used to it before he had to learn a much more kept-modern 3d software. LightWave was the choice I was heading for with heavy heart before I've discovered the existence of Carrara. I say "heavy heart" because I have looked into the headaches involved in working with Poser/DS content - and animating Poser/DS content is my joy. I would never say that Carrara is better than LightWave. That would be utterly ridiculous. But I can say with utmost confidence that Carrara is much better that LightWave for me, and what I want to do.
I'm sorry to hear that, Tim.
Getting in as a new DAZ 3D artist can be a difficult endeavor - true. Once you start down that path and get refused, pay close attention to what they say, what they want. Make those improvements at the very least - but also use their input to push yourself even further, and make sure to make it better in every way you can think of. Sometimes we might take that as "Adding more and more" as the way to go. But keep in mind that we don't need to create completed scenes to be successful. We need to make things that people want to own and use. I can see where the DS version is coming from - the fact that it's a 3d model. In that case, I would suggest what you've just come up with on your own: Make the Model, itself, the product.Then perhaps include your Carrara scene for an added bonus to Carrara users.
That truly IS an important note!
I am in a very similar situation. In fact, if I'd have gone the LightWave route and never found Carrara, I'd likely have added modeling my own characters into my workflow and left the DAZ 3D store entirely. A situation that I am ever thankful that it didn't happen that way!
I am a hobbyist animator more than anything else in my Carrara endeavors. Along that path I've found myself studying lighting, shaders, animation techniques, staging (camera placement), and anything else that I have been needing to figure out to make my animated renders better. It is a huge benefit to me that I have a full time staff creating content all the time and I only have to pay my team members when they've created something that I intend to use.
To me, it is enormously fun and simple to edit shaders from how they're first imported into what I ultimately need. Sure, I can model my own stuff. I even find it relaxing to create new models. But having the store at my fingertips, constantly growing - while even the oldest stuff in the store can work perfectly for what I want. With the fact that I've grown to love editing shaders, the textures of the products mean less and less - but rather the actual construction or morphs of a piece might be the deciding factor for purchase now. Sometimes I can even let new content purchases inspire vast portions of story lines!
Like you, I am finding the Triax DS/Carrara connection being a magical thing. The CCTs of DS make it ever so easy to make my own things, automate the rigging process, and save to a format that's perfectly compatible with Carrara - right in the usual DS library! I love that!
As for the whole "Sell-Out" thing, I do intend to make some items for the Genesis DS user base but they will also include Carrara-optimized files, and be advertised to be Carrara-compatible.
If Fenric can figure out how to allow us to export Genesis (Triax) animated poses into PZ2 files or if GoFigure comes up with a path to export aniBlocks, we'll be open to a whole new realm of being able to easily make Carraratastic products. We have the NLA system, which is actually even easier to work with. But I don't think DAZ 3D likes selling animation files that only include NLA clip format. They require, I believe, that they include at least aniBlocks or PZ2, and I prefer to provide all of the above.
Personally, I don't want to have to constantly shell out more cash for upgraded versions. But when it comes to Carrara, I do like to always work in the latest and greatest. One thing is for sure... I look forward to seeing where they plan to take Carrara in the next installment.