Future of Carrara

Mythmaker

@Dartanbeck
Yes getting the DS-Carrara Aniblock-NLA pipeline flowing would be helpful to content developers.

I have aniblock importer now. Still, so far it seems more efficient to leave the aniblocks as they are and load to make NLAs on the fly if and when I need to. Because, NLA clips don't get a visual thumbnail, just names, and we can't audition them by mouse hovering. Need to drag load clip, sequencer, select anim group, drag load clip, play, to know what it is. If you pick the wrong one, repeat. Very tedious.

A more full-on Animate plugin in Carrara won't hurt. Apparently that was proposed by DAZ dev but somehow didn't happen...

Alternatively, make Carrara NLA even better. C9, or 3rd party hack/plugin.

As is Genesis-based animators still need DS for many reasons, TriAx weight fixing, UV swapping on figures...morph making, and basic Genesis posing. Posing in Carrara is still pretty primitive compared to DS, even with Fenric's hacks. Genesis can't use Fenric's Pose plugin so no mirroring.

I'm now back to DS to make pose presets and pose controls. Kinda odd.

To make up for Carrara's posing defiencies...we have...Puppeteer poses (can't see because no thumbnail)...and NLA poses (also no thumbnail).

Carrara vets may not notice the difference, but for most new comers - mostly used to interactive viewport feedback, working in Carrara = working BLIND.

It's the opposite of WYSIWYG. More like... WYGMBOMBNWYG.

Translation... what you guess may or may not be what you get! :D LOL

Anyway...

Puppeteer is currently under-used in Carrara due to half-implementation. To be truly embraced by vets and noobs it needs to become more whole like its DS original:
-NAME-ABLE Layer Tabs
-right click to add graphical thumbnails per dot
-larger document, undockable panel, links to Shaders and Lights

Hoping that some devs pass by here and take notice... :)

Mythmaker

Roygee said:

Studio already has Optitex and a separate development of a dynamic cloth plugin is underway, LAMH will probably go dynamic sooner rather than later.

That is VERY interesting. I went scouting for info but can't find any, forums drown in the noise of "Optitex sucks" (it does lol). Where who what DS dynamic cloth plugin alternative? Thanks...

SileneUK

Tim_A said:

Sorry I'm late to this conversation, but you guys should really move to a more sensible time zone... ;)

Most of you have seen my Folly Tower scene (it's a 100ft tall local landmark set in 4 acres of wooded hilltop), and some of you will know that I submitted it to the store at the end of last year, out of curiosity as much as anything. It got rejected as "interesting but needs more work", which wasn't really a surprise. But that's not the point of this post.

A couple of interesting points came out of that conversation:

1. To get into the store you need to be both Stonemason AND Howie Farkes (their comparison). That's the target you need to shoot for. Textures and shaders are everything. If you think it's good enough, think again.

2. They want a Studio version. They REALLY want a Studio version. Cos it's sell shed-loads more. I know that earlier in this discussion there was talk about "selling out", but frankly if that's what it takes to get stuff in the store... (which is not to say I'd produce something that didn't have a .car version) And if we're talking business plans, stuff that makes more money makes the money to make the stuff that's more fun but doesn't make money, IYSWIM.

Now, since then I've put in a heck of a lot of work and polish to that scene (although sporadically, since like a lot of folks my Carrara time is limited), and I've even built a Studio version - of the tower, at least. But I'm sure you can imagine I'm having a "little trouble" getting 4 acres of grass and woodland into Studio. I even tried a vastly reduced version (remember the duck pond?), but even that was too much. Ho hum! No one ever said it would be easy! Maybe I should split off the landscape and have it as an add-on. Now that's a thought...

Anyhow, if that ever gets done, I've got a Japanese Urban River scene half build, and an English Town Square scene half built, and a notebook rapidly filling up with ideas...

Unfortunately none of my stuff ever seems to be small scale! :(

Mmoir's Mystic Gorge comes to mind...I have that and I don't think there's a DS version of it. It's chock-a-block full of trees. Correct me if I am wrong, though, about the DS (am on my way out and didn't check the store).

You can sell on Renderosity... I often go there FIRST. They have a Car category as well as the others. I think that scene is brilliant and very realistic. And it's a real landmark...very faithful to the real image of it. That takes talent, Tim.

Keep on designing and building!

Cheers :kiss: SileneUK

TangoAlpha

Jonstark said:

That really is a great scene and I can very easily see that being a selling item in the DAZ store, in fact I'm surprised they didn't jump at it right away, but I'm certain that will a little refining they will accept it and you can pick up some extra scratch from sales :)

As for making a big landscape scene like that fit within Studio... well, that's a challenge. Maybe make a smaller version within an environment sphere where most of the trees and acres are just background image? Or perhaps make most of the trees into billboards, something like DimensionTheory's Ecomantics (Studio does accept billboards, doesn't it?)

Thanks Jon :-) A lot of refining went on before I started posting the pictures here, so what you've seen is considerably better than what the store buyers saw.

One thought I've has is to take the tower out of the big Carrara scene and put in a spherical camera. I could then make that into an environment dome for DS (the Carrara scene has a big terrain outside the main set to add distance). I might need 2 versions of that, since the top of the tower, and the Sun Room (with the big arched windows) are above the treetops, so the spherical camera also needs to be above the treetops.

I've made both lowish poly (25000-50000) versions of the trees and placards. I can get decent numbers of the modelled trees into the scene using Studio's Instances replicator, but the fact that it does a full model render for each replicant (no box outline, cross or dot displays) does mean the scene grinds to an unacceptable slowness when moving about. But the real problem comes with trying to include grass and undergrowth. Even reducing the density still basically kills it (and kills Carrara's obj export - I think it must have a 64k poly limit or something). Anyhow, I have other ideas still to try...

Getting in as a new DAZ 3D artist can be a difficult endeavor - true. Once you start down that path and get refused, pay close attention to what they say, what they want. Make those improvements at the very least - but also use their input to push yourself even further, and make sure to make it better in every way you can think of. Sometimes we might take that as "Adding more and more" as the way to go. But keep in mind that we don't need to create completed scenes to be successful. We need to make things that people want to own and use. I can see where the DS version is coming from - the fact that it's a 3d model. In that case, I would suggest what you've just come up with on your own: Make the Model, itself, the product.Then perhaps include your Carrara scene for an added bonus to Carrara users.

Thanks Dartanbeck. In another hat, I'm a writer, so I'm well used to the submission-rejection-change-resubmit cycle. They do say any sale you make is just a rejection that went wrong!

I don't really want to have the model completely devoid of context, so even "just the tower" needs to have a base to sit on (removable of course, so you can put the tower into your own landscapes). I think maybe where I've been going wrong is having the tower in the middle of the base. But maybe it doesn't need all that detail at the back... (plus there's a whole bunch of rocky outcrop etc landscapes in the store I could probably use in promos)

Anyhow, I've got a novel to finish first, but I will get back to it!

TangoAlpha

SileneUK said:

Mmoir's Mystic Gorge comes to mind...I have that and I don't think there's a DS version of it. It's chock-a-block full of trees. Correct me if I am wrong, though, about the DS (am on my way out and didn't check the store).

You can sell on Renderosity... I often go there FIRST. They have a Car category as well as the others. I think that scene is brilliant and very realistic. And it's a real landmark...very faithful to the real image of it. That takes talent, Tim.

Keep on designing and building!

Cheers :kiss: SileneUK

Thanks Silene. :-) I picked up Mystic Gorge in the March sale, but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I didn't realise Rendo had a Car category - it's not listed in their Departments panel. I've always associated them with Poser stuff (which works quite nicely in Carrara, I know!)

SileneUK

Tim_A said:

SileneUK said:

Mmoir's Mystic Gorge comes to mind...I have that and I don't think there's a DS version of it. It's chock-a-block full of trees. Correct me if I am wrong, though, about the DS (am on my way out and didn't check the store).

You can sell on Renderosity... I often go there FIRST. They have a Car category as well as the others. I think that scene is brilliant and very realistic. And it's a real landmark...very faithful to the real image of it. That takes talent, Tim.

Keep on designing and building!

Cheers :kiss: SileneUK

Thanks Silene. :-) I picked up Mystic Gorge in the March sale, but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I didn't realise Rendo had a Car category - it's not listed in their Departments panel. I've always associated them with Poser stuff (which works quite nicely in Carrara, I know!)

Just type' Carrara' into the search slot... they could do with more content!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?search=carrara&expression=product_name

What is the genre of your novel???

Roygee

@Mythmaker - my apologies, only just saw your question.

That is VERY interesting. I went scouting for info but can’t find any, forums drown in the noise of “Optitex sucks” (it does lol). Where who what DS dynamic cloth plugin alternative? Thanks…

Picked up this tidbit in a discussion of dynamic clothing on the DS forum http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/39635/P15 - see 6th post on page.

There are a couple people working on a more open dynamic engine for DAZ Studio so you may see an alternative to Optitex soon though. As far as I know they will be backwards compatible with the dynamic clothes we have in the store now.

Cheers

TangoAlpha

SileneUK said:

Just type' Carrara' into the search slot... they could do with more content!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?search=carrara&expression=product_name

What is the genre of your novel???

Thanks, I see it. There's not a lot, but some of it does look interesting.

The novel's dystopian/post apocalyptic, but in a very British way. Think Survivors meets Robin Hood... It's third in a series. If you search Amazon for Tim Arnot, you can find my earlier books. (the folly tower is one of the locations from the first novel!)

SileneUK

Tim_A said:

SileneUK said:

Just type' Carrara' into the search slot... they could do with more content!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?search=carrara&expression=product_name

What is the genre of your novel???

Thanks, I see it. There's not a lot, but some of it does look interesting.

The novel's dystopian/post apocalyptic, but in a very British way. Think Survivors meets Robin Hood... It's third in a series. If you search Amazon for Tim Arnot, you can find my earlier books. (the folly tower is one of the locations from the first novel!)

Had a look, cool! You should put your books in your sig line.

Erm... sorry I use Trainline. I can't see the machine without another layer of ready-readers stuck on my head and can't deal with the ticket window queues.

:) Silene

TangoAlpha

You can pick up Trainline tickets from the machines too ;-) (wrote that bit of code myself, lol) Actually - he says, steering it back on topic - those machines are probably a bit like Carrara: I doubt they've changed a line of code since I left the company 8 years ago!

I tent to be a little reluctant mentioning stuff like that in my sig, since some forums get quite upset about advertising. It's the Englishness, you know! But my books do tend to crop up in my renders - on a bookshelf, or the table, or an actor is reading one...

Mythmaker

Roygee said:

Picked up this tidbit in a discussion of dynamic clothing on the DS forum http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/39635/P15 - see 6th post on page.
Ah thanks. How did I miss that thread sheesh. Lots of reading to catch...

There are a couple people working on a more open dynamic engine for DAZ Studio so you may see an alternative to Optitex soon though. As far as I know they will be backwards compatible with the dynamic clothes we have in the store now.

Hm, does the backward compatibility mean 'yet another proprietary format-locked dynamic clothing solution'? That it still won't be a conforming-dynamic hybrid that every content makers can make stuff for?

But the more options for Daz3D users the merrier. Poor Daz3D users, been drooling at Poser flapping full body dresses for like a decade! And I thought I was a patient one!

Back to wrapping my head around Cloth Deformer...

Roygee

Hopefully "more open" means users will be able to make their own - something which was promised when Optitex was first introduced to Studio, but was never implemented.