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I never thought I would see this day; but Joe and I are in total agreement here.
Carrara is an almost-corpse, wheezing in the ditch with a sucking-chest wound. I barely touch it these days and only for dealing with the Daz Content I've purchased. I still believe that Daz isn't going to do a damn thing about it either.
I can't live without my 3D mouse in LightWave. I reach for it intuitively...even in other programs.
Don't worry, no offense taken... :)
And perhaps, as you learn more and more, you'll find you're agreeing with me much more often... :) :)
As a former Amiga user, I have a strange feeling of "Déjà vu"
BTW, the situation must be especially tough for the plugin makers, PA's, trainers, etc., who are or were associated with Carrara. With no word whatsover from DAZ about the future in YEARS, how can anyone plan their future endeavors?
I can't see how anyone can justify making any significant investment in time and effort into Carrara products when there's no assurance that it will be around next year.
If it was me, I'd be focusing on making some Blender plugins to import content. That would open a huge market I'm guessing. Blender has a big fanbase, and I assume Carrara is relatively unheard-of....
That one has got me scratching my head....why nobody has really put in some serious effort (yes, I know there's one but it's very limited). There has to be some reason I'm missing. Heck, just make a new bones/rigging system in Blender that allows you to use Poser/DAZ content. It's not proprietary is it?
I'd think that Smith Micro and DAZ would jump on that and make sure Blender is outfitted with a super cool content importing and rigging system so all the Blender users can buy content.
I hate the Studio UI - it's like trying to do serious work inside Candy Crush. I'm currently working on porting a C8.5 project into Studio and it's driving me nuts.
I have to admit that I'm new enough at 3D that I can't tell if the other features are really outdated. I've certainly been frustrated by the crudeness of the terrain editor and the lack of realism in the tree editor. hexagon doesn't run on a Mac, so from that perspective I don't know what I'm missing in the vertex editor (there are certainly some UV mapping enhancements I'd like and bugs that need fixing.
The key thing that Carrara still has going for it, is that there isn't anything else out there at an affordable price point that can touch it.
Oh yeah, I forgot the crude plants and terrains. Again, decades behind the times. Only good for stuff in the background that's out of focus.. :) :)
Me too.
There's a very real sense that once I get involved with something, it's almost certainly doomed. Seriously, if I bought Apple stock, they'd go bust the next day!
I can't live without my 3D mouse in LightWave. I reach for it intuitively...even in other programs.
Oh my goodness. I used to think I was the only one "intuitively reaching for tools with implemented 3D mouse". These days I keep bumping into seasoned users who say the same. lol. Today I discovered Form-Z, a repackaged Sketchup cousin that also include 3D mouse in its pro version.
I came from DS where the 3D mouse joy (and custom scriptable UI) compensated for 10 thousand sliders and mysteriously buried buttons pains. Then I "discovered" Carrara, an unjustly sidelined app which does almost everything. (The only *very shallow* reason I ignored it for so long was due to the ugly dated GUI)
Now the only Very Crucial Issues I have with Carrara
- No DS style IPR to compensate for dated real-time preview render
- No DS style 3D mouse to compensate for un-customisable UI (Navigation overall sucks big time in Carrara and I say that as a ZBrush diehard)
- Weight mapping needs fixing (esp next to Iclone's Nvidia Apex Clothing Physx)
Yet Carrara's issues are not hard to fix. So it remains, if they want to fix it or not.
I love 3d mouse so much I tried to mess with other 3D app's scripts to see if it would work with Carrara or ZBrush. Ambitious I know. Fails...
I continue to envy Blender and other freeware users who get 3D mouse. I would pay for 3D mouse plugin for Carrara, like I paid for GoZ. But since there's no sign of that happening I'm spending my pocket money on IClone 6.
It's not just ugly - it is buggy almost to the point of being unusable.
People think Carrara is such a bargain...well, you get what you pay for! A cheap program that is ugly, buggy and a decade behind the times with zero prospects for being updated; or you buy a program with an active development team that listens to its user base and keeps the program stable and modernized.
Wow! You are really letting Daz off the hook with that list. :-)
I'm not getting the "buggy" part. What in particular makes it unusable? IMO, it has tons of annoying, inefficient quirks that make it frustrating and time consuming in areas, but I can't recall any real bugs. Other than the bug when you try to save a scene while leaving hanging objects with references to non-existing other stuff you've already deleted. But that's an easy fix. And an occasionally error in the Bullet cloth that merely says "An error has occurred". But you can pretty much prevent that using various work practices.
Other than that, I can't think of much. Just an occasional lockup for unexplained reasons, but that's pretty rare.
I've been using Carrara since it was Ray Dream Studio. I love the UI- particularly the spline editor. I do have some issues, mainly with the compatibility with DS. I know it's supposed to work with Genesis, but... And I with softbody worked better. Aside from that, most of the problems I have had were from not knowing how to do something. I use it professionally- product dummies, advertising, animations, etc. And for the most part I'm happy with it. The only things I really want are the things I mentioned, and making the current tools better. And searching content.
The same here. I use Carrara a lot for creating all kind of renderings and animations. I find it to be very stable, especially for such a complex piece of code. It is a very capable software as it is already. I have the latest Lightwave which is very powerful and I it like too, but I prefer using Carrara, as it is a joy to use IMHO and much more intuitive. The rich content available, many plugins and the sane prices are a big plus too.
Having different approaches to the same task is all well and good. It's the inability to do certain tasks that vexes me.
Example from 3D Studio Max
Look at the "Edit Geometry" panel, and ask yourself how many of those tools exist in Carrara.
I think someone is having a bad day! ;-P
For something that's wheezing in the ditch with a sucking chest wound, I sure get a lot of mileage out of it. So do a lot of people.
That's not to say that improvements and modernization of certain features and functions aren't in order, or that DAZ could do a hell of a lot better by its customers and Carrara, but the hyperbole also doesn't do anything besides polarize people.
I certainly think a discussion about Carrara and how DAZ handles it is relevant, topical and needed. However, I would remind everybody, that none of us knows what is going on with Carrara. Some people are writing it off, while ignoring the fact that there was very recently a public beta/bug fix, which indicates someone at DAZ was cutting a check to pay people to work on Carrara. There's also the work being done on plugins for two different unbiased renderers- one of them rather expensive- by third party developers.
Again, until we know more, it is all just wild speculation, with some of us wringing our hands, freaking out and waiting for the end, while others hold out hope for the next version. Then there's Dart- our beloved cheerleader! ;-)
I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating: Even if DAZ were to announce it was killing Carrara, that doesn't mean Carrara all of a sudden won't work. Migration plans would have to be made of course, but as long as it launches, I would use it.
Thanks EP, I think that is an important point. While Carrara still works and it fills a gap in the market - and no other program offers a full 3D suite together with direct support for DAZ content - then there will be avid users who can make great images and animations with it.
Nobody is saying that Carrara no longer exists, or serves any purpose. Obviously that's not true. As long as the operating systems will run it, people will use it. Same as Hexagon, which presumably hasn't been touched by developers in forever. Heck, I'm sure there are still a fanbase of Amiga users who are plugging along with their A2000's. :) :)...and unless Blender gets a content importer, or iClone turns out to be the new wave, I'll be plugging along with Carrara for certain things.
What people are expressing frustration with and concern over is the future of Carrara. And as I have said before, that is a very legitimate concern, for many reasons that I've described before. There's no need to suppress peoples' concerns in that regard. That's how things improve. People get frustrated and upset, they complain, and maybe companies listen and act based on that groundswell of concern.
That's what makes things get better. I can assure you, in some countries the culture is to never complain or rock the boat, based on fear or whatever. And in those countries you can see the effects of that. Things never improve. Now for those who don't care if things never improve, that's fine. But for others, it's frustrating.
So I say, complain away. Just make sure it's legitimate and rational, and not just some mudslinging for the purpose of mudslinging.
I have no problem with complaints- I just get tired of the sky is falling mentality. Just to clarify, I'm not saying everybody that has a complaint has that attitude.
True...but if the sky really IS falling, it's best to be aware in advance so you can make whatever preparations people make when the sky is falling... :) :)
Maybe put on your aluminum foil hat or something... :) :)
True...but if the sky really IS falling, it's best to be aware in advance so you can make whatever preparations people make when the sky is falling... :) :)
Maybe put on your aluminum foil hat or something... :) :)
Actually I think Stan is over a Renderosity now. ;-)
And some make amazing training programs for it!
And some make amazing training programs for it!
Very kind, thank you!
It's not just ugly - it is buggy almost to the point of being unusable.
People think Carrara is such a bargain...well, you get what you pay for! A cheap program that is ugly, buggy and a decade behind the times with zero prospects for being updated; or you buy a program with an active development team that listens to its user base and keeps the program stable and modernized.
Awww I detect a lot of love in your angsti-ness (such a word?)
Carrara IS a bargain. It's a great companion to ZBrush users and a totally under-marketed Sketchup replacement with internal radiosity render and proper UV. FormZ is selling for $500, with no rigged animation feature to speak off. I wish Carrara had as much dev attention as DS.
I almost gave up on DS by 4.5, but DS4.7 surprised me. So who knows. Ommmm lol
And just in case a heroic programmer pass by here - hello hello there is a demand for 3D mouse for Carrara Zbrush and IClone.
Has anybody from this forum ever made a phone call to DAZ, visited Daz offices and asked to speak to someone who just might actually know something about the future of Carrara ? It seems like this is all chatter that occurs when the teacher leaves the room - surely the mighty Oz can be approached, or are we all cowedly lions.. Sometimes the easiest and best solution is the direct path. Somebody must know something and is willing to relieve some of the anxiety
Starboardtack.
Whether they answer would be a question for the marketing department. If they have future plans, spilling them now may not be consistent with the overall strategy they have for marketing the new version.
Jedlaw,
I agree they may not want to divulge whatever treats may be in store for us, but surely it is in their best interest to let it be known that they are working on a new release for Carrara. Keeping the moral of the troops up is always a good practice. Besides it will certainly not help the product sales when prospective buyers have doubts about its future existence.
I remember when Carrara began with Metacreations. I had bought Infini-D and was aggressively learning the program. When word came down that they were dropping Ray Dream and Infini D and would be only promoting Carrara I was distraught. I called up the Infini D hotline and talked to one of the programmers for Infini-D -yes you could actually talk to these guys. He was distraught also, and could not understand the corporate decisions. Infini D was by far a superior platform and should have been developed instead of cobbling two different programs into one. The result was of course that Carrara had bugs for years to come. Infini-D in contrast was as stable as a battleship and was phenomenal for bringing in video and stills for texturing. I still use InfiniD to this day, And I could wax enthusiastically for hours on what an incredibly simple and intuitive modeling interface it had. Even now this afternoon I am making objects in InfiniD moving them over to my mac mini and importing them into Carrara as Dxf.s It is far faster and easier than using Carrara. I felt so strongly about Infini-D that when my G5 died a year ago I bought a Mac G5 just like it so I could continue to use Infini-D. I would not be learning Carrara if it was not for the feature of bringing in Daz and Poser models. Of course Carrara has come a long way and has involved into quite a powerful 3D program.. However, I believe that if half the effort had been put into Infini-D it would have been far, far superior. Think about it, Infini D was last updated in 1998 - 17 years ago and I still prefer it for basic modeling. What a golden opportunity they missed. That is the past - and we live in the now.
Starboardtack
i'm a lil curious if DAZ owns carrara or they broker for the real programmers?
at this point in time, i feeling a thrill from the features i finding in c85p.
had a peek at the assembly room, saw something said weightmapping. i think that means ca haz a native wm feature.
how come there's no figures specifically for ca?
I have used the weight painting. It can be very useful. You can even do some influence work on the Mil-4 and earlier figures.
The reason you don't see figures designed in Carrara for sale is probably because the user base is small and Carrara rigging and weight mapping is specific to Carrara.
BTW, I have C7.2 Pro and still find new things to do with it nearly every time I use it.
These types of threads pop up from time to time. Personally I think it's equivalent to the 24 hour news cycle echo chamber- people pontificating on things they have no clue about, but are dead sure about....
That's partly why the Carrara challenges were started lo' these many moons ago- To counteract the negativity and provide a fun and relatively pressure free way to learn about Carrara.
Well, here's a street level view of their building from Google Maps. Salt Lake City. They're on the second floor, in room 250 according to their website.
Not many people live in that area I believe, so personal visits might be tough. I suggested in another thread that someone attend the ComicCon in Salt Lake this weekend and flag down the DAZ founder, but that ain't easy.
Feel free to email or call. I'm sure their phone number is available...or you can file a ticket I suppose :) :)