Questions about MetaMixer--Plus

I watched the youtube video full screen. It doen't make plain to me how this product enhances the MetaMixer. Does it add more "dots" or items to be morphed? I've tried MetaMixer. I usually give up and go to the Shaping Tab and work on morphing the face, head, and features (nose, mouth, lips, chin, brows, cranium, etc.) there. The video showed rapid changes taking place, but I could not follow the strokes or moves of the speaker. He said he was using for the product heads of another product available here on DAZ. But, he said it so fast, and I did not see any closed captions, so I couldn't understand what he was using. I know there are various head shapes for MetaMixer that you can buy. Is that what he was using? Basically, the video and the pictures presented do not explain the product, and I'm wondering if I'd just be better using the Shaping Tab. Can others explain how this "Plus" product works? I'm willing to read and be persuaded. I'm not just trying to complain, although I did find the video useless.

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Comments

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 1,452

    I could use some help with it, too, to be honest ... 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    I had it in my cart, but dumped it until I know whether it works with the "big announcement" on September 21. I think it adds more detailed partial face morphs to give you finer detail control of small facial areas with MetaMixer and ]Power Pose. You can see the extra Power Pose dots in the demonstration.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905

    Thanks, barbult. Yes, I do see the extra Power Pose dots, but I'm not sure how easily they can be manipulated. I don't know: what is going to happen on September 21, this Wednesday? I know, sometimes people can't tell, even if they are "in on the know." Can you give a hint? Could it be DAZ Studio, Version 5?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    inquire said:

    Thanks, barbult. Yes, I do see the extra Power Pose dots, but I'm not sure how easily they can be manipulated. I don't know: what is going to happen on September 21, this Wednesday? I know, sometimes people can't tell, even if they are "in on the know." Can you give a hint? Could it be DAZ Studio, Version 5?

    I'm guessing, like other users. I have no inside data directly from Daz. Like you said, if I did, I couldn't say what it was. Strong clues have implied the release of Genesis 9. We'll have to wait and see.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905

    Boy, and the guessing goes on forever on that link, doesn't it? I didn't get an email. I only just found out in this thread that there's something scheduled for Sept. 21.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    inquire said:

    Boy, and the guessing goes on forever on that link, doesn't it? I didn't get an email. I only just found out in this thread that there's something scheduled for Sept. 21.

    I sent you a PM.

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    The add-on ads the ability to move poligons around similar to a sculpting program but through PowerPose. It also has the feature of creating asymmetrical morphs. It's an add-on for the Toolkit itself and not specific to any figure.

    In the attached image I'm using MetaMixer - PLUS by itself to only move the top of the nostrils around, make some asymmetrical morph, play around with the shape of the ear, and sculpt some lips. I did not use any MetaMixer presets of other characters.

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    Why is it called MetaMixer Plus if it doesn't use MetaMixer? I'm confused.

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    You need MetaMixer to use it. There's MetaMixer then there's this add-on which ads something to it. "Plus" as in something extra for MetaMixer.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344
    Why does it need MetaMixer if it doesn't use any of the MetaMixer character presets? I still don't understand. What part of MetaMixer does it use?
  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    While using MetaMixer I was having trouble achieving certain facial features with the included dials so I had to add more functionality to it. From a technical standpoint it uses the same philosophy MetaMixer does. So for example in order to save the presets you will need the MetaMixer specific custom preset script found in the Elements folder of the toolkit.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,468
    edited September 19

    metamixer plus is almost a misnomer because you dont actually have to mix anything...

    Being able to sculpt left/right side independently and fine-tune eyelids and nose etc with multiple different sculpting points is really cool.

    Should honestly just be it's own thing.  Having that visual control and pinpoint accuracy should probably be a built-in feature for Daz Studio tbh.

    Anyway, I had some eye morphs that i could never get right (I had wrapped a 3rd party asset which i had wrapped to Genesis toplogy but the eyelids were always slightly off where they should be, and this gave me the level of control i needed to fix them pretty easily).

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905
    edited September 19

    And I could work with any figure, without using one of those MetaMixer heads or presets? Or, any combination of three heads, without using one of the MetaMixer heads? Are these two points correct?

    If that's so, it's much like the morph brush in Poser, maybe even better, which I've been saying we needed for a long time.

    Post edited by inquire on
  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    inquire said:

    And I could work with any figure, without using one of those MetaMixer heads or presets? Or, any combination of three heads, without using one of the MetaMixer heads? Are these two points correct?

    If that's so, it's much like the morph brush in Poser, maybe even better, which I've been saying we needed for a long time.

    I don't think I understood your second question well enough, but yes to the first one. MetaMixer Toolkit and its add-on, MetaMixer - PLUS, has a set of universal built-in morphs which work independently of the facial presets. Keep in mind though that PLUS is an add-on so you will need the MetaMixer Toolkit in order to be able to use it properly.

    As far as your morph brush analogy you are correct. My initial intention was to create something similar but had some major hurdles with the SDK which seems to be outdated. Just having predefined morphs gave me the same level of control I wanted to have, so I went with that instead. 

  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905

    What did you use to have the images you want to copy float over the screen?

    OK, I am truly trying to learn how to use this product. The first screen shot is from the video you (I assume) posted. It show dots and above them, Plus_Sym_ON_Front_Left. I can't get this Template to show up for me, no matter what I click on in the Scene Tab.

    Screen shot 2 shows what I get. There are lots of dots, but I just get Template Set BASE (METAMIXER).

    No matter what I click on in the Scene Tab, I can't get that Plus_ tab to show. (See Screen Shot 3.)

  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905
    edited September 20

    When I finally did get that Plus_ tab to show up, and I tried moving one dot (the Left Ear), DS spun and spun. I would not finish. I had to "Force Quit." I'm on a Macintosh, running OS 12.6 (the latest) and DAZ Studio 4.20.0.17.

    Post edited by inquire on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905
    edited September 20

    You say, in your YouTube Video, "Set the response times to delayed," or something like that. How would I set the Response Times to delayed? Sorry that all these screen shots keep getting incorporated in my next post. I'm not trying to add them.

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    Post edited by inquire on
  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    inquire said:

    You say, in your YouTube Video, "Set the response times to delayed," or something like that. How would I set the Response Times to delayed? Sorry that all these screen shots keep getting incorporated in my next post. I'm not trying to add them.

    MM - PLUS is a separate figure so it needs to be selected in order for the template to show up. Click on the round plus thing that appears next to the large MM circle. I completely forgot to mention this, sorry.

    To change the SubDivision Updates to Delayed you need to open the Draw Settings window in Daz Studio. To do this either click on the little icon with a ball and a sproket behind it found in the tools toolbar in Studio. Or go to Window -> Panes (Tabs) -> Draw Settings -> General -> SubDivision Updates -> Delayed.

    Why your DS kept running I can only guess at this point it's a performance issue. You could try using the Base resolution and see if the issue repeats.

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    For overlaying images: https://www.pureref.com/

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    MetaMixer came with a very very helpful PDF. Where are the instructions for MetaMixer Plus? Is the video the only reference we get?

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448
    edited September 21

    barbult said:

    MetaMixer came with a very very helpful PDF. Where are the instructions for MetaMixer Plus? Is the video the only reference we get?

    I know I made a tutorial pdf as well. Are you sure it's not in the package? There's a chance I might have forgot to add it.

    I attached the images here. I can't upload PDF files apparently.

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    Post edited by Faux2D on
  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    I just checked. I did not include it in the package but I did send it in as a readme file. The pdf probably got lost along the way.

    Download link for the PDF for future reference: https://wetransfer.com/downloads/29242f12ef2cc0239d8d899f1fb3921920220921125821/cfbacb09fcf1aeb329f1707e0b2ff07120220921125835/b229d1

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    Thank you for the PDF!

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344
    edited September 21

    I made this mod from Edie 8 with MetaMixer Plus. I had a real hard time with the nose. I couldn't find any MetaMixer Plus dots that would work on the center of anything. Everything was left or right. I wanted to lift the center of her nose tip, but couldn't find a way to do it.
    This render is using Alexandra 8 materials instead of Edie 8 Materials.

     

    Edie 8 MM Plus Mod_002_Camera (2).jpg
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905
    edited September 21

    Well, this is clearer with the Tutorial. Thanks for that. Here's what happens, though. I get far too many dots appearing. See the first screen shot. Then, if I try to move even one little dot (in this case, it's on the neck), ever so slightly, notice how the neck seems to tear. Or, is that tearing? Is it just showing what area will be affected? In any case, with all these dots, it's too confusing, at least for me, to do any fine turing of the face or head. Is it possible to click on something like the chin, and have only a few chin dots appear? Or, if I clicked on a chin dot, could that show up in the Parameters Tab or in the Shaping Tab as a slider? 

    I am not trying to bash this product. I like what you're trying to do. But I think it needs some adjusting, and a version 2. I did get PureRef. Had never heard of that, and that's a big plus for me. So, thanks for that. Also, I did check the screen drawing times, and they are already on "delayed."

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    Post edited by inquire on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344
    edited September 21

    I didn't see any tearing like that.
    You don't have too many dots, they are just large. Maybe your PoserPose pane needs to be made bigger?

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    Post edited by barbult on
  • inquireinquire Posts: 1,905

    barbult said:

    I didn't see any tearing like that.

    OK. Well, I'm on a Macintosh. It's happened to me every time I try to  move a dot with MetaMixer Plus. So, a number of times. Just reporting.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,344

    inquire said:

    barbult said:

    I didn't see any tearing like that.

    OK. Well, I'm on a Macintosh. It's happened to me every time I try to  move a dot with MetaMixer Plus. So, a number of times. Just reporting.

    I'm on Windows 10. Maybe that is the difference.

  • Faux2DFaux2D Posts: 448

    barbult said:

    I made this mod from Edie 8 with MetaMixer Plus. I had a real hard time with the nose. I couldn't find any MetaMixer Plus dots that would work on the center of anything. Everything was left or right. I wanted to lift the center of her nose tip, but couldn't find a way to do it.
    This render is using Alexandra 8 materials instead of Edie 8 Materials.

     

    Something like this? (see attached image)

    I also used the controls for MetaMixer Toolkit to achieve the effect. There are no morphs controling the center alone as they are symmetrical. My workaround was to use the Morphing and Blending controls (Rotate specifically) to affect the middle area then tried to revert the unwanted changes using PLUS.

    MetaMixer PLUS ads hundreds of morphs to the Genesis figure. The way it's made this doesn't add that much to the loadtime of Genesis compared to other products; maybe 1-2 seconds. I did consder adding full control over every vertices but that would have meant thousands of morphs instead of hundreds. This means adding something like 10-20 seconds to the loadtime; maybe less, maybe more depending on the machine.

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