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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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But it does, as the chest area doesn't have vertices to work with and the only ones that have access to tools to make HD morphs are DAZ PA's
How does a non-DAZ creator make a morph to increase diameter of the pokies or make any changes to them, if the pokies are HD morphs?
I hope not. I mean, won't matter much to me since I don't buy many characters from the other place since they're even MORE female-centric than this place ;)
TBH I'm concerned about male characters the most. Shirtless DAZ females usually are coming into play if someone is doing smut, but shirtless guys have more applications.
Of course lack of navel geometry can be seen in a swimwear too, so there's going to be that for G9F.
Just to play the Devil's Advocate here, are we sure that there will be anotomical elements, "pointies" and navels? I would certainly think so, but could DAZ be making a push toward totally family friendly content?
Like I said above, I would think these elements would be implemented. That said, the lack of geometry makes me wonder. It seems to me that lacking the geometry in the base figure creates way more work than necessary to implement nipples. As others have pointed out above, this isn't just a sexy woman render issue. Men at the beach (or where ever) have nipples too.
DAZ Blog added G9 description Sept 29. https://blog.daz3d.com/a-first-look-at-whats-coming-in-genesis-9/
Seems like same info. Was hoping for rigging info. Guess will have to wait to be sure.
Looks like G9 focus is more for portrait artists: make G9 more realistic, though uni-mesh baffles me in this regard.
Saw one screenshot of new outfit showing bones (not this forum).
Assume complete rig?
Soft body physics aka bones that support weights for deforms are not there.
RE: soft body physics
Most in this DAZ forum seem less interested (well not at all really).
But to be also fair to other types of users, DAZ has officially (based on that mods said here) decided that the forums here make up only a small portion of users.
And other types of users will be somewhere else, or not at all.
So often their voices (like mine) are rarely here.
And if they do post, probably get 'over-written' like Marble's comments a few days ago.
Would love an official response to DAZ's plan re: soft body physics.
Guessing though more bones and weights just means more issues for their/PA's clothing rigging. That's one issue of probably more.
So instead users that want soft body physics have to add manually (time-consuming).
WendyLuvsCatz did post a while back about Carrera supporting bullet physics.
BUT, and this is a big BUT, that was in a day when GPUs/CPUs were much slower and users had to have alot more patience. My IMO.
So in the year 2022 where 24GB vram is a thing for over a year already, it is surprising to me that extra features for soft-body physics are not part of the features.
Have my guesses why this is so.
Yeah the new denser mesh may be better. Though others raising issues about mesh structure may be a concern. Will see.
Final note: would love a paid access (DS plug-in) to Level 1 SubD for G8.
Guessing geografts and add bones will have to remain work around.
Just takes so much time, which G9 features could have helped with.
Ah well. DAZ is still a 3d figure leader. Just feel they could have been more.
Will see what final rig looks like. Can't see more bones as a add-on unless it's a 2nd nude figure without clothing support. Doubtful.
Time is money, yet G9 feels targeted to one kind of users. To those, have fun.
And when skiing down the mountain side, they also get pointy
The base is always offered for free.
V9 is an addon for Genesis 9, and so will be a paid-for product.
Some of the things you mention (like soft body physics) are probably better implemented in the software rather than the figure. Maybe when DS5 is released?
https://blog.daz3d.com/a-first-look-at-whats-coming-in-genesis-9/
And THIS is what we waited more than a week for? You could have saved your energy. All that was gone over in the video. What people want to know is generally what's in the bundles ahead of time. I ordered the pro bundle and frankly, I'm starting to feel like an ass for doing so. Ya can't give SOME idea? Like one hair, one outfit (average clothing I hope and not sleaze wear), how many eye colors, whether or not gens are included and so forth?
Just for fun, here is a comparison of the topology of G9, G8, and G2. IMHO G2 had the best human topology for users and vendors to create detailed realistic morphs of any ot the Genesis figures. G3 and G8 significantly reduced the poly count for both the poky bits and for detailed musculature. If there aren't any polys in an area, the average user (i.e. if you aren't a DAZ PA) can't create morphs for a figure in that area. Note how the topology of G2 follows the musculature and features of the human anatomy - this means the mesh shape can be easily modified by the user, and that realistic joint/bend deformations can be easily created by the average user. G9 may have twice as many polygons as G8, but more polys doesn't totally make up for bad topology. Bottom line, it you don't have access to the tool(s) to create HD morphs, you will have to heavily rely on HD morph packages provided by DAZ and/or DAZ PA's to create custom characters (or geografts from creators elsewhere).
While I'm sure for many people this isn't a big deal. If you don't purchase/use characters from anywhere other than DAZ, it won't be a huge deal. If you never modify the base character in a modeling software (or using dFormers or Mesh Grabber) It probably isn't a big deal. But if you do make your own characters, or have a favorite character artist somewhere other than DAZ, it might be a big deal
Unfortunately, we know virtually nothing about what HD morphs, if any, might be included as a part of G9. We also don''t know what will be included in the the standard head and body morph add-on packages DAZ has always created (or if they will even have them this time). Finally, we have no idea if the gens will be include with the V9 bundle. So at this point there are a lot of unknowns with regard to G9/V9. We do know from Jay's video that there are more spine bones, and that we will need to purchase an add-on to convert G8 poses to G9, which also means that we will need some form of work around to use standard mocap data to animate G9. Otherwise, it's all standard marketing hype with few details that DAZ has gotten so good with lately.
I do really like V9, so I will probably get her once some of these details are clear (probably after release??), and possibly the bundle. But there just are not enough hard facts for me to just pre-invest in her. I am very concerned about the base mesh topology, and what that might mean for non DAZ character creators (and my own character creation) goin forward. I'm not hugely interested in a mesh that I might have to buy even more extras, and rely solely on others work to be able to customize my figures. I enjoy adding my own flare to base characters I purchase. I've found the reduced polygons in certain pokey areas with G8F/G3F very limiting. Missing topology in those areas with G9 means there may be no possibility to edit those areas myself. While I'm sure for most people that's of no concern, but for me it is. It also may mean that creators at other stores won't support G9. IMHO lack of competition isn't good for the customer.
I'mthought Jay did mention Aantomical Eeelemnts. The Merchant Resource body morphs certainly include nipples.
Thanks Richard, I missed that in his video. Yes, the merchant resource kit does include nipples, I wonder if DAZ is creating another Body Morph package for G9F, and if that will include muscles and the poky bits. I would guess they would, but I would also have guessed that the topology for G9 would have been much different than what it is
I don't modify the base character but it is still a concern for me. I would like the abitlity for others to do character creation and modification outside of DAZ. The reason is simple, I believe that competition is good for the consumer and the marketplace.
Just read the blog, and this caught my eye!
Really killed any concern that I had with character creation; thanks Daz for looking out for the character creators! This is gonna be a day-one purchase!
Can someone remind me why normal and displacement maps aren't a suitable replacement for HD details? Based on the few that I own, I feel like I could get more detail out of a very high resolution normal/displacement map exported from Zbrush.
edit: I said morphs before, and I do notice HD expression morphs (although I don't like them, they make everyone look old). For skin detail or such though, I'd like to know why HD morphs are better. Thanks.
HDmorphs are better in iray
I would argue displacement and normal are better in most other render engines including 3Delight and Octane
This is how I figured I'd probably handle it. Soto's Breast Utilities 2 has a ton of normal maps to add nipple details to the geoshell overlay, and I like the effect better than anything I've been able to get with HD morphs. But I tend to use characters at a lower subdivision and so normal maps are my go-to solution for a lot of detail stuff.
As I understand it:
Displacement maps can't allow you to create any general deformation of the subdivided geometry, they just displace along a binormal projection from the surface. This can result in stretching of the underlying texture and tearing at the edges.
I believe the proper HD Morphs can deform the subdivided geometry in all 3 directions allowing a skilled artist to avoid stretching and tearing as well as allowing more complex geometric formation that would not be possible with simple displacement.
Oh, it works like vector displacement? Still a shame Studio can't support 'regular' vector displacements, you could bring over some amazing stuff from Zbrush if it could.
Wendy, do you know why they work better in Iray? Can Iray not handle the high detail of normals and displacements? That...would explain a lot of the results I've gotten in tests and been unable to figure out.
You did not see the presentation where he stated there are new options with Victoria 9 * autofit? There is now a baggy option in autofit. The higher polygon count allows for better weightmaps and better calculations for draping the clothing and avoiding pokethrough is what it sound like to me he said. Those improvements should help old style clothing like Genesis 1's fit better shouldn't it?
As far as dForce clothing it looks like cutout paper doll clothing far too often,except for some outfits that have been simulated multiple times with a morph preset saved for each simulation (those usually look OK). That technology is also valid for Genesis 9 and Victoria 9, so it's connected to this thread in that way.
iray doesn't do microdisplacement like 3Delight, Firefly and Octane to name a few, hence the shader has a displacement option that adds a lot to render times and VRAM and still not that great
you only need look at stuff like AoA and DimensionTheory's grass shaders for 3Delight to see the difference and the old M4 displacement maps
(they look great in Octane4Carrara and we also have a phong tessallation plugin by Philemo for our native engine)
but iray loves geometry
@SnowSultan Yes the displacement map of course will be uv mapped and thus follows the uv maps deformations, but this is so in any software and not a big deal. The difference with HD morphs is that HD morphs are morphs, not textures, that is, they can morph the HD details. Thus with a displacement map you can do a HD shape, but not HD morphs. As a side note the blender multires modifier doesn't support HD morphs, so you have to use driven displacement maps instead, or true HD.
The more lifelike expressions are appreciated, I wonder though - when G8 was introduced, among the features most advertised were better bends and things like muscle contraction when posing. That's more important to me than even better close-ups. G8 and 8.1 still look somewhat awkward when you e.g. do a "hands in the air"-pose, or when kneeling, and extra packs like ultimate bends or muscularity morphs can only do so much. Will G9 improve these things? The promo pics don't give me a clear answer on that.
And are there possible changes e.g. to hair? Most hairs look bad when when a figure looks way up or way down, even when using dforce. Will that be that same with G9, or does it give new possibilities to the creators?
sigh i hate preorder.
The Price is now lower than the first day the order was possible...
Both displacement and HD morphs work on vertices, real or SubD, in Iray - there is no inherent difference in level of detail they can achieve.
One benefit of HD is that it can readily be adjusted in strength, just a single sldier on the figure vs having to seelct all surfaces in the surface pane. Dispalcement also previews (usually ata lower level of detail) in any Drawstyle while displacement has to use a full render engine.
That's my expectation too.
Although G10 could end up as separate M and F figures again but both with bad topology. ;-)
So where's that G9 FAQ we were promised by Daz? They didn't mean that simple blog post, did they?
then why is it so hard for PAs to make decent displacement shaders for iray?
I would use them because I certainly cannot make them either
That really does piss me off now. I paid about $17 dollars more just a couple days ago. Something I wouldn't even care about if it was already released, but I don't even HAVE it yet.
WTH are you doing Daz?
That's not fair to the people that preordered at the higher price.
Someone from Daz needs to address this.