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Well, yes. G8+ is huge and some of the more popular characters don't come from Daz store. If the new character base is going to be only moddable for Daz PAs... You can bet money it's going to flop. Because in such case people will stick to G8+ which is not ideal by any means...
But it will be good enough for majority of the user base.
I don't see any reason non-PAs coudn't create non-HD characters for G9, just like they do for G8.
My understanding [hope it's correct] is that, without additional mesh resolutions, G9 is itself HD [compared to G8] so that would make for better morphing possibilities by everybody.
Non PAs don't have the tools to make subdivided HD morphs for figures.
And they already didn't have them for earlier figures. I don't see what in G9 prevents them from creating characters the way they did it before.
The problem is that one can only import morphs at base resolution. No use exporting G9 at higher mesh resolution to Blender, make morphs there, when you can't import them back to the figure in DS.
One could only use the mesh tools that work inside DS to make the morphs.
@PixelSploiting As I see it the nipples and navel for G9 will be made with HD, thus will be available only with figures on the daz store. Sure you can use geografts instead, but consider that geografts will lose the HD details when mixed with HD figures. Also having to use geografts to get the basic body features is a nonsense, I agree with @PerttiA on this.
@Leana The G9 unimesh is very limited in body features topology, so non-HD figures will be of restricted use. Essentially while G1-G81 can preserve the basic body features with the base mesh, G9 can't and needs HD for that.
Yes, but if that 'base' resolution is a higher resolution than the 'base' resolution of G8, it would enable more detailed morphs none the less.
As I see it, it is not the average mesh densoty that is relevant, but the mesh density where it matter, such as the face.
That the mesh density is higher on the arms is of little interrest as it usually wouldn't be where you made the detailed morphs.
So I agree that non-Daz PAs will get a much harder time, even though the polygon count is higher.
On the other hand... So far we have no idea of what is included in DS5... (Still don't understand the timing of G9 release...)
I just have this, sort of dream in my mind... They have 3 programs, which they have bought and stopped updating roughly about the same time (start of DS5 development-time?), just sitting on them ever since, not selling or giving them away, why have they done that?
Is it possible that we are going to see some functionality of those programs integrated into DS5, that would really be jaw-dropping...
We have been shown the G9 base resolution mesh, doesn't look much higher resolution than G8/G81, and it's missing vertices to build smaller details like the pokies and navel.
Preview of eventual Genesis 10 Unimesh.
Not only figures, but the unimesh will be used for all props and environments. For figures, there are plenty of polygons to create N&N even without HD morphs. Navels and Nipples.
And @WendyLuvsCatz, don't call me Shirley.
I don't recall mention of the navel but the pokies "etc" are allegedly arriving as geografts.
A lot of that extreme face detail we're seeing is likely done with the textures - which if I caught the comment correctly, comes with G9. :-)
I was thinking it would be a sphere
More like a gingerbread man, I would think, so one could start from a T-pose. ;)
My thought is that it's just as likely that Genesis 10 will follow in the path of Genesis 2 and abandon the unimesh aspect.
And, honestly, we haven't seen much to show that G9 will actually be an improvement in the real world. I can't help but think that having V9 demonstrated with freckles and vitiligo is a way to add apparent resolution to the skin. As I understand it, it's only the G9 skin detail maps that can be up to 8000 X 8000 while the actual base textures are still maxing at 4000 X 4000... and even then, there are a limited number of full body human skin texture references currently out there, so unless DAZ has started pulling naked people in off the street to create a raftload of new super-high definition base sources, I would suspect that a lot of what we'll be seeing initially will be using skin textures uprezzed from 4000 X 4000 or lower, created procedurally, or hand painted. I remember when Sharp first demonstrated 8K TVs back at the Consumer Electronics Show many years ago, and even though their screens were technically 8K, all the demo materials were uprezzed from 2 & 4K and didn't look significantly different, and even today, the majority of the current 4K video sources are really just uprezzes of 2K material with a lot of fiddling with color, contrast, and other processing to make them look snazzier.
Thanks for the chuckle. Actually they can find some 'very' not shy models showing off over at DA. There's a website that has certainly um, changed, over the years.
Yeah, but most of the people at DA aren't likely to be posting the materials required for skin creation, let alone at the latest high resolutions. 3D.sk is probably the most prolific source for skin photos and I think they're maxing out at somewhere around 4000X6000 images.
This mesh looks a lot better, where's the preorder?
Well of course, but the contacts are there I would gather if somebody else wanted to hire them. I prefer 3D.sk myself or from Daz3D.
By the way for those who have ZBrush, there are oodles of skin detailing "brushes" over at ArtStation as well.
Strictly speeaking, they wouldn't have to be naked when pulled off the street.
I don't have any inside info on what was used, but Daz has produced its own image resources in the past and while we know they didn't keep the tools it is quite possible that the in-house characters are made from feshly commissioned references.
Ha!!! Free in Hexagon :-)
Spoken like a man with experience.
I think they're worried that the base level on Genesis 9 will be hd in which case it might not be possible to do your own morphs. I think this might be a bit of a leap and very much depends on whether the lowest level of the slider will allow you to create standard morphs that aren't hd.
Another option they're missing is it could mean that when the slider goes up on your own morph the hd gets applied. Until Genesis 9 is released this is all just speculation unless someone who already has the figure posts.
As a user I would be really disappointed if you can't create morphs as it's a huge part of my process and would mean that even though it's the unisex figure which I've wanted it would be a no go for me.
That said I'm happy to wait and play with the figure in a few weeks and leave any buying until that has happened.
The "Issue" is that (it appears) the base mesh does not have the geometry to create nipples or a navel, this will necessitate either HD morphs (which would make creating or modifying these elements impossible unless you are a PA) or geographs (which would be bad for various technical reasons).
3rd party sources can make the geograph elements if Daz make it HD morph only, but this is not a good option.
HD Morphs should not be needed if the underlying geometry is set up correctly, HD Morphs also add unnecessary bloat to computation and increase render times.
It is a better option just to have the right geometry in the base mesh.
I think you missed my point which was it depends where the slider takes it to and even HD would have a lowest resolution.
Seems to me like there's a problem of definitions. Only PAs can create HD morphs, but in that context "HD" just means at a higher level of subdivision than the base mesh. For G9, the base mesh has higher resolution than G8, which means that base resolution for G9 is equivalent to a subdivided G8, not that G9 "is" HD in Daz terms.
"HD" is just a label. Sure it defines the morphs above base resolution, but I don't see other software calling it that. It is just a subdivided mesh. It is nothing special in other software because those software tend to allow everyone to be able to sculpt at high subdivision.
Here are some numbers for poly counts. I removed all the eye and mouth geometries and imported this back into Daz.
That left the skin mesh with 13,510 polygons.
If you subdivide this you get to 54,125 polygons. This would be a HD level 1 morph. Jumping to subD 2 takes it to 216,331. And at subD 3 it jumps to 864,640. SubD 4 jumps to 3,459,247. Again these numbers are with the eyes and mouth removed. You can see the trend, since most of the mesh is made of quads, subdividing basically quadruples the numbers.
So Genesis 9 is roughly doubling the base mesh of G8. If they are exactly doubling the skin poly count, that only gets you to 27,010 polygons on the skin. That is still far fewer than what HD offers on Genesis 8. Most PAs are designing their HD meshes far beyond HD1. Many are doing this at level 3 or 4. So while the base mesh may double polygons, I don't see how regular users are going to be able to really get much more detail than they did before. Daz might be throwing non PA creators a bone, but it is a small chicken wing, and a baby one at that, nothing meaty. Daz Studio just doesn't get it.
Here are the numbers on a full Genesis 8.
Base 18,176
SubD1 67,426
SubD2 264,134
SubD3 1,050,382
SubD4 4,194,616
Thus if we assume Genesis 9 has 27,010 polygons, jumping to SubD 1 is going to push it past 100,000 polygons. At SubD 2 it will be hitting 400,000-500,000+. At SubD3 it should be well above 1,200,000+.
These are pure guesses, and they are going off Jay's words that the base has about twice the number of polygons. We know the eyes and mouth are now separated, so we they do not get subdivided with the rest. That is a cool idea. But the numbers still add up fast. It will be interesting to see if people use lower subdivision levels on G9 versus what they did on G8. Since each subdivision in G9 appears to fall halfway between each G8 SubD.
So on one hand it is great that the base mesh is getting a boost, but denying users access to create their own mesh in "HD" is still very much a problem. Doubling the base mesh does not solve that in the least, and it might actually backfire.
Maybe all the geometry that got removed from breasts went to face, LOL. I suppose that is a possibility, as it does look like the chest has far fewer polygons. That had to somewhere.
We also have no info on gen props. Neither preorder mentions it, not even the bundle. What is the deal? Is Daz really prepared for this? Why is there so much secrecy? Why are PAs still finalizing products just a couple weeks before launch??? What if one of them falls ill and is unable to provide their product? This just seems weird.
It is fine that Daz announced G9 ahead of time. It lets people plan for it. That is quite a novel approach for Daz. But what good does the announcement do when nothing else gets revealed? There s not a single product aside from the bonus items mentioned. Video games might do preorders all the time, but they reveal what those preorders contain months in advance. How can you ask customers to preorder a bundle without any idea of what that bundle contains?