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"I'm hearing excuses and deflection"
I'm seeing someone ignoring my post, and being pretty rude about it, and assigning statements I haven't made about G9.
I'm thinking because they can't address the issue I have with Genesis 9, because in the two years it's been out I have yet to see anyone successfully address it.
I havent read this thread in its entirety, nor more than 1 or 2 pages. You mentioned that there was an issue with making male chests. Do you have examples, so i can make sure I dont fall prey to whatever the issue is when I make G9 characters. Perhaps whatever the issue is can be fixed readily with morphs and blendshapes.
If you're not prepared to answer my question - something that involves you taking a moment to look at a picture I have already made and then type a couple of sentences - why on earth should I go to the time and effort to remake the image with a male character? (Which would be a considerable investment of time and effort to properly convert the same figure to multiple bases. As I have repeatedly asserted, converting things between figures well is not trivial. At least with Nicky I already had her converted to all these generations).
Particularly seeing as it seems like I would only be giving you the choice to ignore the question again.
You refusing to rise to my challenge and me refusing to rise to your challenge are not even close to equivalent.
The challenge was not posted for you specifically, but you chose to engage with it by expressing disagreement.
Ahem. Please keep the conversation civil and on the topic, not making comments aimed at other posters. I am not removing any of the previous posts as there was some useful discussion in most of them, but we will be less tolerant of further problems in furher replies.
OK, so if it was easy, then you killed the point of your argument.
Who cares about cross gender stuff when there are tools available to get by on the few occaisions when it is needed?
Why have a figure that's more difficult/time consuming to work with within the confines of a vast majority of your work?
Honestly, I would have transitioned to G9 - I really wanted to, and tried, as I still use Genesis 3 mostly.
But working with females most of the time, the mesh isn't friendly to us mere mortals that are unable to morph in HD. The mesh doesn't flow with the female anatomy in the chest.
Daz could mostly fix my gripes with G9 by giving us mere mortals access to SubD morphs, especially over the ZBrush bridge. Is anyone listening? DO IT!
...
Really?
I said it was easy for me.
All the conversion work to put the clothes on horses and bunnies? That was me. These are not ready made centaur-compatible products. I made them compatible. I made the tools to make them compatible.
In comparison to the other things I know how to do, moving stuff between humanoid bases is easy. Tedious, yes, but certainly not difficult.
But that doesn't mean I don't want it to be easier for other people as well.
Just going to start by saying this is my own opinion and my issue with G9. The figure isn't flawed or broken. I believe it does what it's intended to do, and a lot things it does well. I attached some pictures highlighting the area I find problematic. Textured pictures use the G9 Masculine 01 skin.
For me, it's the torso mesh. The mesh is very uniform and regular, especially compared to previous generations, except for the breasts. The mesh to sides, under, and between is denser than the rest of the torso. It's also shaped to give a contour to the breasts. I feel those two things combined gives an overly defined contour that can't be dialed away when a male-presenting shape is applied. It can give a 'fall-off' or chiseled effect with some characters.
I've bought several products and used free shapes people have shared with no luck getting it to go away.
Male shapes and making the breasts smaller just makes that rounded W shape denser. My speculation as a non-modeler - I don't think it can be addressed without making the overal mesh of the whole breast area a consistent size. Or a geografted chest without the rounded W shape so densely defined. One was made for a female shape. I reached out the vendor to see if they would make a male version I could purchase, they declined.
OK, but for giggles, now flip your argument...
It's Tedious, but not impossible to work with the G9 mesh for respective male and females (especially chest area) for the vast majority of use. It's easier to convert a clothing item to another gender for the minority of folks out there that desire to do it.
You have pointed out that it is certainly possible to do the conversion for the minority of users that have the desire to do it. That's cool - no one is saying they shouldn't do that. What many of us are saying is that it shouldn't be at the expense of what the vast majority are doing. Which is what a single mesh trying to do it all is - it's literally a jack-of-all-trades, master of none.
No, I've shown that it is possible for me to do that.
Other than that, I have stated that it is hard or even impossible for most users to carry out a conversion that matches the level of quality you get with native compatibility, and I have stated that from a position of having provided really quite ample evidence of my experience in the specific field of asset compatability.
No-one has even tried to guess which of the figures in my comparison is which, so I'm not hearing compelling evidence that G9 is easily distinguished by its shaping capabilities compared to the earlier generations.
(And no, I obviously can't post topless versions of the render on the forums, don't be ridiculous. That's as naked as I can post that character, and it's the one character I had G2, G8 and G9 versions of ready to go. I have characters where I have G3, G8 and G9, but the G3 and G8 generations are sufficiently similar that showing that one can take a shape basically proves the other can.)
I think it's G2, G9, G3, with G2 <--> G3 the most likely error if I'm wrong. I haven't loaded the figures to look at them again, nor to pose them as these figures are posed. I'm relying on my unimpressive visual memory.
It took me about 5 minutes to get the chest the way I like it, but I might not be as picky as some of you guys. lol
My personal problem with G9 is a purely financial one. Having to buy a lot of stuff *again* that I already paid for before to use G3/8 (where at least some if not most was compatible) is beyond my financial means for a pure hobby. And as G3/8 are working good enough, the need to jump on the G9 train for me (!) is zero. Up to now I have seen not many G9 products that I would really NEED, except maybe be for a few characters, which still rather are in the "nice to have" category and make me wish for a G9->G8 figure transfer product.
So yes, the idea behind G9 is a good one, in principle and for many customers, but it's also easy to live without G9. And I am sure that DAZ can live without the little money I usually spent here.
could be that guys care more about moobs, as most of us fear to grow them when getting older.
It's easy to shape G9's chest when one doesn't have impossibly narrow standards for what the Only Acceptable Shape is.
Also: Seriously hot dude!
Hmm, I really dont think it would be an intractable problem to make a simple flat chested morph. That seems like a very remedial level task for anyone who can sculpt things.
It's more sculpting than "modelling", depending how one defines such things. Anyways, I think the mesh density and topology flow arent going to be a bottleneck in sculpting povided the mesh is dense enough. With HD morphs, there is no limit to what you can sculpt, really.
I definitely think the base mesh is dense enough to make a flat chested morph. The topology flow could be a problem with respect to how the shape is bending during posing, but that can be fixed with corrective blenshapes.
That feels unnecessary.
I may come back to this thread with further evidence supporting my claims if I can be bothered.
It wouldnt be a significant exertion of effort to be fair.
There are two workflows that character creators would use to make morphs, one being just moving the base mesh vertices around in sculpting software (either base res or subdivided) and other method being wrapping the genesis 9 base mesh to an object that was freely sculpted. With the second method, it's hard to imagine that you couldnt wrap the genesis 9 mesh, which claims to have 2x higher polygon density, to any g8 mesh (nipples and navel notwithstanding).
If completely smoothing out the pectoral shapes, I suspect (but would need to confirm) that such a shape might need blendshapes to correct crease when the spine bones bend forward.