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Daz Studio 4.9 Beta Now Available..

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  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,127
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,349
    acanthis said:

    Do you really think DAZ are at all interested in what their customers have to say? Honestly? If they were then they would have consulted about this evil plan first. No, their mind is made up. It's a familiar story: the dollar is king. The customer is just a pawn trapped on the middle of the board - or in this case trapped at the edges of a very dark rain CLOUD!

    The recent PA sale were changed significantly mid way through the month due to customer/sales feedback, so if enough people make themselves heard this thing is not set in stone. I am not opposed to the idea of DAZ connect in principal, just please dump the encryption.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854

    "But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. "

    Why not? It is a direct answer to will it take longer to install/uninstall. And frankly if there is any speed change to anything with that other stuff I am sure not seeing it. It must be nano second fast.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854
    acanthis said:
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

    This really points out that the store aspect is not invasive. You need to go to the smart content tap, then you need to look at the bottom at the tabed options. One is tips, one is info (which I tend to keep open) and one is store. The store option will give you the related products and for me right now a banner reminding me about an extra discount available to me.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,127
    Khory said:
    acanthis said:
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

    This really points out that the store aspect is not invasive. You need to go to the smart content tap, then you need to look at the bottom at the tabed options. One is tips, one is info (which I tend to keep open) and one is store. The store option will give you the related products and for me right now a banner reminding me about an extra discount available to me.

    Thank you Khory :)

    I never would have thought to look in there for it.I never have that part opened up.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    When threads are merged it does tend to scramble the information, especially when all 3 current threads all have many posts. I am not suggesting that you transfer all your comments, just that posts added to that thread will have more effect as Daz is watching that thread.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854

    "I never would have thought to look in there for it.I never have that part opened up."

    I confess to never having gotten the knack for smart content so its the first time I have really spent much time in that tab. There is almost an invisible line as far as people who use smart content and those who don't. I know several PA's who would freak out if they lost it. And now I can see why. There is also a portion of us who are more "I am too old and set in my ways for these new fangled things". I'm going to try and be less old fogie about it now because it is easier for a visual person like myself to actually see what I have available to use.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Khory said:
    acanthis said:
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

    This really points out that the store aspect is not invasive. You need to go to the smart content tap, then you need to look at the bottom at the tabed options. One is tips, one is info (which I tend to keep open) and one is store. The store option will give you the related products and for me right now a banner reminding me about an extra discount available to me.

    I believe it was stated that it is not all working yet. Anyway that doesn't alter the fact that this is functionality that DIM does not have but DAZ CONnect does. These things are not zero sum gains, they DO use resources.

    But anyway, I have read enough and made my mind up. Windows 10 was quite enough for me - I don't want anything else phoning home or using my system resources while I'm trying to work. fwiw I think what has been revealed in this thread is just the tip of the iceberg, but we shall see.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:
    acanthis said:
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

    This really points out that the store aspect is not invasive. You need to go to the smart content tap, then you need to look at the bottom at the tabed options. One is tips, one is info (which I tend to keep open) and one is store. The store option will give you the related products and for me right now a banner reminding me about an extra discount available to me.

    I believe it was stated that it is not all working yet. Anyway that doesn't alter the fact that this is functionality that DIM does not have but DAZ CONnect does. These things are not zero sum gains, they DO use resources.

    But anyway, I have read enough and made my mind up. Windows 10 was quite enough for me - I don't want anything else phoning home or using my system resources while I'm trying to work. fwiw I think what has been revealed in this thread is just the tip of the iceberg, but we shall see.

    As time goes on you will see how upfront and honest both me and @Daz_Jon have been in this thread. There aren't any nasty surprises waiting for the future, just a system built with the user as the #1 priority that does ratchet up the difficulty in shipping out a pirated copy from a legitimate copy.

     

    Since 4.9 can be run in offline mode it will run without taking up any additional resources. In online mode the only portion of Daz Connect that runs when you aren't actively using it (fetching updated metadata, installing new products, browsing the store pane) is a single read-only connection that listens for one of three notifications:

    1. Your metadata is out of date because you have made a purchase or a product you own has been updated. This is so that if you buy something on the web store you don't have to manually trigger a refresh to see your new products.

    2. The EULA has updated and you need to accept the terms and conditions again. This is so that on those rare occasions that we update the terms and conditions your system is notified. Since in online mode installing/updating a product is just a click away and the system (exactly like DIM and the Product Library today) won't let you download a product without agreeing to the latest EULA we have to be able to notify you instead of just silently failing new updates/downloads.

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

     

    And once again, even that single connection only runs if you are logged in through Daz Connect in online mode.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    I (admittedly) have not read through this entire thread, but I am incredibly concerned about these online developments. Why?

    1. I do 75% of my work while I am offline. Most of the time with no access to the internet (planes, hotel rooms, work, etc.)

    2. Most of the time, when I am online and working, it is through my phone's cellular connection. Which is costly. Particularly if data connections are going on behind the scenes and not obvious or able to be disabled.

    3. Most importantly.. the DIM downloads are *incredibly* slow. I do almost all of my content downloads and updates when I am at home on a fiber optic connection. Yet it will still take all night to download 50 gigs of items from DIM. On the same connection I can download my entire Steam library (500+ gigs) overnight with no problem.

  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 927

    Hmmm... I tend to move whole directories to where they make sense rather than using smart content.  I find it's the only way I can locate things quickly in around 750 GB of files.  Connect can probably tell what I have if they use it in a database, but is going to have no idea of where I put it except of course for the items in the data directory which I don't touch.  How is that going to work?  Since I alreay use Adbobe CC I am comfortable with the cloud concept, and I don't have a problem with making sure I have licensed what I am using.  I do have a problem with DRM dictating how I use it.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Jason Galterio said:
    3. Most importantly.. the DIM downloads are *incredibly* slow. I do almost all of my content downloads and updates when I am at home on a fiber optic connection. Yet it will still take all night to download 50 gigs of items from DIM. On the same connection I can download my entire Steam library (500+ gigs) overnight with no problem.

    My connection is not quite a snail's pace, but it sure isn't fiber speed.  My son recently redownloaded his Steam library and I'm pretty sure it isn't 500 GB it took about a week to complete it. 

  • Jan19Jan19 Posts: 1,109
    edited October 2015
    mjc1016 said:
    Jason Galterio said:
    3. Most importantly.. the DIM downloads are *incredibly* slow. I do almost all of my content downloads and updates when I am at home on a fiber optic connection. Yet it will still take all night to download 50 gigs of items from DIM. On the same connection I can download my entire Steam library (500+ gigs) overnight with no problem.

    My connection is not quite a snail's pace, but it sure isn't fiber speed.  My son recently redownloaded his Steam library and I'm pretty sure it isn't 500 GB it took about a week to complete it. 

    I could not re-download 500 gigs of stuff or my DAZ Library.  I just could not do it.  Even if I stayed up every night, for free download time, it wouldn't be possible.  Well, it'd be incredibly difficult anyhow. 

    Post edited by Jan19 on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    Jason Galterio said:

    I (admittedly) have not read through this entire thread, but I am incredibly concerned about these online developments. Why?

    1. I do 75% of my work while I am offline. Most of the time with no access to the internet (planes, hotel rooms, work, etc.)

    You are never required to be online in order to use your content. You only need to be online to download updated metadata or to download and install a product from the web store.

    Jason Galterio said:

    2. Most of the time, when I am online and working, it is through my phone's cellular connection. Which is costly. Particularly if data connections are going on behind the scenes and not obvious or able to be disabled.

    On a cellular connection I would recommend working in offline mode. Although there typically won't be much in the way of data transfer should you purchase a lot of content (like one of the PC+ mega bundles) Daz Connect will automatically download product thumbnails and metadata for those products.

    Jason Galterio said:

    3. Most importantly.. the DIM downloads are *incredibly* slow. I do almost all of my content downloads and updates when I am at home on a fiber optic connection. Yet it will still take all night to download 50 gigs of items from DIM. On the same connection I can download my entire Steam library (500+ gigs) overnight with no problem.

    Good news! Part of moving to an encrypted storage system means we can better utilize CDN networks so you will no longer be limited by the download speed of our servers. Speeds through our CDN will improve as more users utilize the system and the caches are filled on the remote content nodess. I have fiber at home and DIM's download speeds have been frustrating to me at times as well.

  • aspinaspin Posts: 219

    If you introduce DRM your customers won't trust you, no matter what you tell them/us.

    Usually things like that start small, helpful, unintrusive... wait a while until the vendor has the impression the customers got rid of their uncomfortable feelings about that... and then it gets "improved" more and more over time.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited October 2015
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

    I will say this again. I do not like this change one bit , No sir not one bit.

    I love using Daz Studio,  Studio4.8 is the Bomb. But I see no improvements worth me upgrading to 4.9, The only benefit i see to downloading the 4.9 studio is for daz to be able to control how i download and use my content in the future. I love how the UI is now in 4.8 I don't need a nanny for my content.. .  So what I have read here has given me enough information to decide that Daz4.8 will be the last copy of Daz Studio I will be downloading. When the Daz Store come to the point they will no longer be supporting a simple Zip file download for the product I bought.  then that will be the day that I will  I will no longer be purchasing products here at daz. I am sorry Daz  no matter  how much Daz claims its because of the changes of web, and it will improved  user experience I am calling BS,.., The web will always continue to support a simple zip file. My Android Nexus has App for handling PK & winzip zip files content I can load onto a Mirco sd card..

    Anyway  this not a decision I have taken lightly considering the amount of time and vast amount of money I have invested in using Daz Studio software.   Though its true I will not be able to get new products and the new bright and shiny updates, I feel I have enough content to last a life time that I can use now in my current version of Studio 3a & 4.8,  Poser.

    I thank you daz very much for giving me he opportunity to learn a new way fo doing Illustration and 3d and I have really enjoyed the friends I have made here and sharing what I have learned..  But in all good conscience  I can not continue to use  or support a product that feels like they need to nanny me and my content.   I now relies loyalty means nothing,   8 years I have invested here at daz spending around $ 100 a month you can do the math. on what total I have spent here., though I will admitt I have spent a heck of a lot less since genesis 3 came out. So  I will take with the last copy of daz studio 4.8  I will use all the content that is offered that will support  when that runs out so has my buying days here.

    This has been a very sad turn of events  I do not like this change not one bit to the point  when I can no longer get a simple zip download for the product i buy then I am done with buying any more daz products.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    DAZ_Rawb said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:
    acanthis said:
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

    This really points out that the store aspect is not invasive. You need to go to the smart content tap, then you need to look at the bottom at the tabed options. One is tips, one is info (which I tend to keep open) and one is store. The store option will give you the related products and for me right now a banner reminding me about an extra discount available to me.

    I believe it was stated that it is not all working yet. Anyway that doesn't alter the fact that this is functionality that DIM does not have but DAZ CONnect does. These things are not zero sum gains, they DO use resources.

    But anyway, I have read enough and made my mind up. Windows 10 was quite enough for me - I don't want anything else phoning home or using my system resources while I'm trying to work. fwiw I think what has been revealed in this thread is just the tip of the iceberg, but we shall see.

    As time goes on you will see how upfront and honest both me and @Daz_Jon have been in this thread. There aren't any nasty surprises waiting for the future, just a system built with the user as the #1 priority that does ratchet up the difficulty in shipping out a pirated copy from a legitimate copy.

     

    Since 4.9 can be run in offline mode it will run without taking up any additional resources. In online mode the only portion of Daz Connect that runs when you aren't actively using it (fetching updated metadata, installing new products, browsing the store pane) is a single read-only connection that listens for one of three notifications:

    1. Your metadata is out of date because you have made a purchase or a product you own has been updated. This is so that if you buy something on the web store you don't have to manually trigger a refresh to see your new products.

    2. The EULA has updated and you need to accept the terms and conditions again. This is so that on those rare occasions that we update the terms and conditions your system is notified. Since in online mode installing/updating a product is just a click away and the system (exactly like DIM and the Product Library today) won't let you download a product without agreeing to the latest EULA we have to be able to notify you instead of just silently failing new updates/downloads.

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

     

    And once again, even that single connection only runs if you are logged in through Daz Connect in online mode.

    What exactly is "an online and connected version of Daz Studio"? If the user starts DAZ Studio 4.9 does it automatically go online, or is there a very clearly visible Online/Offline indicator together with a toggle that the user can throw? And btw I don't give a wet fig for web integration - I have never used that feature. I just start DIM and see the list of downloads; that way I am in control and I am making the decisions.

    I'm sorry, but what you have said in your reply just reinforces my concerns about this change. I understand that there are people here who are jumping for joy at the Next Big Thing, but the only jumping I plan on doing is over to other vendors. Thank heavens that there is now good support for DS outside of DAZ - until you make the next raft of compatibility changes, that is!

    Just to wrap my thoughts up, with such a monumental change being implemented shouldn't DAZ Studio have moved to version 5?

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Jan19 said:
    mjc1016 said:
    Jason Galterio said:
    3. Most importantly.. the DIM downloads are *incredibly* slow. I do almost all of my content downloads and updates when I am at home on a fiber optic connection. Yet it will still take all night to download 50 gigs of items from DIM. On the same connection I can download my entire Steam library (500+ gigs) overnight with no problem.

    My connection is not quite a snail's pace, but it sure isn't fiber speed.  My son recently redownloaded his Steam library and I'm pretty sure it isn't 500 GB it took about a week to complete it. 

    I could not re-download 500 gigs of stuff or my DAZ Library.  I just could not do it.  Even if I stayed up every night, for free download time, it wouldn't be possible.  Well, it'd be incredibly difficult anyhow. 

    Not required. 

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    edited October 2015
    Ivy said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

    I will say this again. I do not like this change one bit , No sir not one bit.

    I love using Daz Studio,  Studio4.8 is the Bomb. But I see no improvements worth me upgrading to 4.9, The only benefit i see to downloading the 4.9 studio is for daz to be able to control how i download and use my content in the future. I love how the UI is now in 4.8 I don't need a nanny for my content.. .  So what I have read here has given me enough information to decide that Daz4.8 will be the last copy of Daz Studio I will be downloading. When the Daz Store come to the point they will no longer be supporting a simple Zip file download for the product I bought.  then that will be the day that I will  I will no longer be purchasing products here at daz. I am sorry Daz  no matter  how much Daz claims its because of the changes of web, and it will improved  user experience I am calling BS,.., The web will always continue to support a simple zip file. My Android Nexus has App for handling PK & winzip zip files content I can load onto a Mirco sd card..

    Anyway  this not a decision I have taken lightly considering the amount of time and vast amount of money I have invested in using Daz Studio software.   Though its true I will not be able to get new products and the new bright and shiny updates, I feel I have enough content to last a life time that I can use now in my current version of Studio 3a & 4.8,  Poser.

    I thank you daz very much for giving me he opportunity to learn a new way fo doing Illustration and 3d and I have really enjoyed the friends I have made here and sharing what I have learned..  But in all good conscience  I can not continue to use  or support a product that feels like they need to nanny me and my content.   I now relies loyalty means nothing,   8 years I have invested here at daz spending around $ 100 a month you can do the math. on what total I have spent here., though I will admitt I have spent a heck of a lot less since genesis 3 came out. So  I will take with the last copy of daz studio 4.8  I will use all the content that is offered that will support  when that runs out so has my buying days here.

    This has been a very sad turn of events  I do not like this change not one bit to the point  when I can no longer get a simple zip download for the product i buy then I am done with buying any more daz products.

    I agree 100% with these sentiments.

    [EDIT: A passing thought. The guys at Smith Micro must be rubbing their hands with glee over this early Christmas present ;)]

    Post edited by acanthis on
  • LostboysLostboys Posts: 18

    Every scene that was crushing my gpu before works great now with the beta version!Thank you for taking care of these problems can't wait for the final release.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604

    This may be a curve ball but I think that I've just realised why DAZ have been taking so long releasing the Genesis 3 Male! I bet they're going to make it DS4.9 cloud-downloadable only!

    You've got to hand it to the guys running things at DAZ. They know all the tricks.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,571
    acanthis said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:
    acanthis said:
    icecrmn said:
    acanthis said:
    Khory said:

    "Right now I can click on the product in DIM, hit uninstall, and then hit install, and it all takes a few seconds."

    So I tested. I would guess that the servers are as stressed now as they will ever be so times should be fiairly high compared to any other day. I only downloaded because that was what I am doing currently. Summer for v7 too 30 seconds in all. Layton hair took 31 seconds. Arrabella took 8 seconds. Streets of Asia 2 took 22 seconds. I have good internet but not the fastest that ATT offers because our lines in the area are to old for faster so my internet speed is not a major plus compared to much of the rest of the world.

    But it is important to remember that DIM is an application dedicated to downloading. DAZ CONnect will be a part of DAZ Studio, hooking into your current scene, looking at what assets you've got, presenting all manner of thumbnails and banners, making suggestions, enforcing DRM licenses and decrypting content. It's not a like for like comparison. Fortunately it is a comparison that I will never have to make.

    [EDIT: PLUS there's probably going to be a lot of 256 bit (or better) AES encryption/decryption going on.]

    Mine's not doing that, I conveted my whole library over to the connect version last night.I'm not seeing any banners , nor thumbnails for suggestions of any kind, Where do I look for this at?

    I have no idea. You probably need to ask the developers, but the clear intention as discussed in this thread is that DAZ CONnect will offer suggestions for other things you can buy. You need to read back a few pages.

    This really points out that the store aspect is not invasive. You need to go to the smart content tap, then you need to look at the bottom at the tabed options. One is tips, one is info (which I tend to keep open) and one is store. The store option will give you the related products and for me right now a banner reminding me about an extra discount available to me.

    I believe it was stated that it is not all working yet. Anyway that doesn't alter the fact that this is functionality that DIM does not have but DAZ CONnect does. These things are not zero sum gains, they DO use resources.

    But anyway, I have read enough and made my mind up. Windows 10 was quite enough for me - I don't want anything else phoning home or using my system resources while I'm trying to work. fwiw I think what has been revealed in this thread is just the tip of the iceberg, but we shall see.

    As time goes on you will see how upfront and honest both me and @Daz_Jon have been in this thread. There aren't any nasty surprises waiting for the future, just a system built with the user as the #1 priority that does ratchet up the difficulty in shipping out a pirated copy from a legitimate copy.

     

    Since 4.9 can be run in offline mode it will run without taking up any additional resources. In online mode the only portion of Daz Connect that runs when you aren't actively using it (fetching updated metadata, installing new products, browsing the store pane) is a single read-only connection that listens for one of three notifications:

    1. Your metadata is out of date because you have made a purchase or a product you own has been updated. This is so that if you buy something on the web store you don't have to manually trigger a refresh to see your new products.

    2. The EULA has updated and you need to accept the terms and conditions again. This is so that on those rare occasions that we update the terms and conditions your system is notified. Since in online mode installing/updating a product is just a click away and the system (exactly like DIM and the Product Library today) won't let you download a product without agreeing to the latest EULA we have to be able to notify you instead of just silently failing new updates/downloads.

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

     

    And once again, even that single connection only runs if you are logged in through Daz Connect in online mode.

    What exactly is "an online and connected version of Daz Studio"? If the user starts DAZ Studio 4.9 does it automatically go online, or is there a very clearly visible Online/Offline indicator together with a toggle that the user can throw? And btw I don't give a wet fig for web integration - I have never used that feature. I just start DIM and see the list of downloads; that way I am in control and I am making the decisions.

    I'm sorry, but what you have said in your reply just reinforces my concerns about this change. I understand that there are people here who are jumping for joy at the Next Big Thing, but the only jumping I plan on doing is over to other vendors. Thank heavens that there is now good support for DS outside of DAZ - until you make the next raft of compatibility changes, that is!

    Just to wrap my thoughts up, with such a monumental change being implemented shouldn't DAZ Studio have moved to version 5?

    There is a Connect button or menu command, it isn't automatic.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854
    edited October 2015

    "If the user starts DAZ Studio 4.9 does it automatically go online, or is there a very clearly visible Online/Offline indicator together with a toggle that the user can throw? "

    Yes.

    Screenshot 2015-10-28 12.32.32.png
    704 x 700 - 387K
    Post edited by Khory on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    acanthis said:
    Ivy said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

    I will say this again. I do not like this change one bit , No sir not one bit.

    I love using Daz Studio,  Studio4.8 is the Bomb. But I see no improvements worth me upgrading to 4.9, The only benefit i see to downloading the 4.9 studio is for daz to be able to control how i download and use my content in the future. I love how the UI is now in 4.8 I don't need a nanny for my content.. .  So what I have read here has given me enough information to decide that Daz4.8 will be the last copy of Daz Studio I will be downloading. When the Daz Store come to the point they will no longer be supporting a simple Zip file download for the product I bought.  then that will be the day that I will  I will no longer be purchasing products here at daz. I am sorry Daz  no matter  how much Daz claims its because of the changes of web, and it will improved  user experience I am calling BS,.., The web will always continue to support a simple zip file. My Android Nexus has App for handling PK & winzip zip files content I can load onto a Mirco sd card..

    Anyway  this not a decision I have taken lightly considering the amount of time and vast amount of money I have invested in using Daz Studio software.   Though its true I will not be able to get new products and the new bright and shiny updates, I feel I have enough content to last a life time that I can use now in my current version of Studio 3a & 4.8,  Poser.

    I thank you daz very much for giving me he opportunity to learn a new way fo doing Illustration and 3d and I have really enjoyed the friends I have made here and sharing what I have learned..  But in all good conscience  I can not continue to use  or support a product that feels like they need to nanny me and my content.   I now relies loyalty means nothing,   8 years I have invested here at daz spending around $ 100 a month you can do the math. on what total I have spent here., though I will admitt I have spent a heck of a lot less since genesis 3 came out. So  I will take with the last copy of daz studio 4.8  I will use all the content that is offered that will support  when that runs out so has my buying days here.

    This has been a very sad turn of events  I do not like this change not one bit to the point  when I can no longer get a simple zip download for the product i buy then I am done with buying any more daz products.

    I agree 100% with these sentiments.

    [EDIT: A passing thought. The guys at Smith Micro must be rubbing their hands with glee over this early Christmas present ;)]

    As much as I don't like badmouthing the other guys, if you think Poser is DRM free you may want to check out some of the issues users have had with it's automatic deactivation system if you don't let it get online for long enough.

     

    Fortunately they did provide some inspiration for us, because we never "time out" an authentication. If you download a bunch of stuff through Daz Connect in online mode and then decide to never connect again that content will work forever on that machine.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    diogenese19348 said:

    ...  and I don't have a problem with making sure I have licensed what I am using.  I do have a problem with DRM dictating how I use it.

    This in a nutshell.

    +1

  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 927

    I'm still trying to figure out what is going on here.  If you are just changing the method of downloading to be inside the DAZ program itself rather than in a stand-alond DIM I don't think anybody who is not using zip downloads will have a problem with that.  If you want to put suggested items in, sure, what the heck, as long as I can turn that off while I am trying to work.  What I am hearing here is that you download the content from the cloud just like you do now (the cloud being another name for a remote server), and that it resides on your machine thereafter.  It is also still possible to use the content on more than one machine as long as you authenticate your program on that machine right?

    My basic question is can I still bypass smart content and use the file structure of my drive to organize content, or will moving stuff around break my content?

  • swordkensiaswordkensia Posts: 348

    So DazRawb,

    Okay, my studio has six machines. three are render nodes with no software on them bar the network headers for the software that uses those nodes.

    The other three machines have Studio installed. Two of those machines share the Content of the MAIN workstation, via content location paths over a home/personal network on which all these machines are connected.

    With this change to how content is downloaded and authenticated by Studio, will my two machines which share the content library of the main machine STILL be able to locally load the content stored on the main workstation, as they currently do.??, will it matter if they are running Daz 4.8 as opposed to 4.9.??

     

    Cheers,

    S.K.

     

     

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    DAZ_Rawb said:
    acanthis said:
    Ivy said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:

    3. Install a product. Since new browsers are dropping support of a feature we needed to have DIM be able to start a download from the web store we needed to develop a new system to allow for a nice web integration. This way you will be able to tell an online and connected version of Daz Studio to start a download of a product from your phone / work computer (naughty, naughty) and not have to be on the same machine that is running Daz Studio.

    I will say this again. I do not like this change one bit , No sir not one bit.

    I love using Daz Studio,  Studio4.8 is the Bomb. But I see no improvements worth me upgrading to 4.9, The only benefit i see to downloading the 4.9 studio is for daz to be able to control how i download and use my content in the future. I love how the UI is now in 4.8 I don't need a nanny for my content.. .  So what I have read here has given me enough information to decide that Daz4.8 will be the last copy of Daz Studio I will be downloading. When the Daz Store come to the point they will no longer be supporting a simple Zip file download for the product I bought.  then that will be the day that I will  I will no longer be purchasing products here at daz. I am sorry Daz  no matter  how much Daz claims its because of the changes of web, and it will improved  user experience I am calling BS,.., The web will always continue to support a simple zip file. My Android Nexus has App for handling PK & winzip zip files content I can load onto a Mirco sd card..

    Anyway  this not a decision I have taken lightly considering the amount of time and vast amount of money I have invested in using Daz Studio software.   Though its true I will not be able to get new products and the new bright and shiny updates, I feel I have enough content to last a life time that I can use now in my current version of Studio 3a & 4.8,  Poser.

    I thank you daz very much for giving me he opportunity to learn a new way fo doing Illustration and 3d and I have really enjoyed the friends I have made here and sharing what I have learned..  But in all good conscience  I can not continue to use  or support a product that feels like they need to nanny me and my content.   I now relies loyalty means nothing,   8 years I have invested here at daz spending around $ 100 a month you can do the math. on what total I have spent here., though I will admitt I have spent a heck of a lot less since genesis 3 came out. So  I will take with the last copy of daz studio 4.8  I will use all the content that is offered that will support  when that runs out so has my buying days here.

    This has been a very sad turn of events  I do not like this change not one bit to the point  when I can no longer get a simple zip download for the product i buy then I am done with buying any more daz products.

    I agree 100% with these sentiments.

    [EDIT: A passing thought. The guys at Smith Micro must be rubbing their hands with glee over this early Christmas present ;)]

    As much as I don't like badmouthing the other guys, if you think Poser is DRM free you may want to check out some of the issues users have had with it's automatic deactivation system if you don't let it get online for long enough.

     

    Fortunately they did provide some inspiration for us, because we never "time out" an authentication. If you download a bunch of stuff through Daz Connect in online mode and then decide to never connect again that content will work forever on that machine.

    That sounds reasonable. Except, if I've downloaded it, I'm entitled to use it, so that adds a step - not a big one I grant, but when events conspire it could be an annoying one if a person couldn't get online. A situation I had about a year ago; two seperate incidents; I had to reinstall at the same time as I lost internet connection. I recovered from a disk image, and restored everything in about twenty to thrity minutes. I would have been screwed in the same situation now as recovering content from a backup wouldn't work.

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 765
    edited October 2015
    diogenese19348 said:

    My basic question is can I still bypass smart content and use the file structure of my drive to organize content... ?

    With content you already have, yes.

    With new content downloaded with DAZ Connect, no.

    DAZ Connect will require content archives be kept in the cloud and downloaded as needed.  This means no ZIP files to download and store locally.

    If we want to create our own Categories with new content, similar to our own folder structures in Macs and PCs, we will now do that exclusively from within DAZ.

    Post edited by Nyghtfall3D on
This discussion has been closed.