Daz Studio 4.9 Beta Now Available..
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Thanks for the explanation. TBH, I am extremely concerned about that "fetching." I have a LOT of content.
Since the servers are simpler in Daz Connect than for DIM / Product Library we are able to utilize a CDN which should give some good performance improvements for transfer rates, particularly for users that are outside the US.
I let it run on my laptop today - something over 6500 products - and yes, it is a fair old bit of data, 319 MB in my case. This is stored in a directory called 'cloud' under the data directory in my primary mapped Studio directory. Look at your runtime/support directory to get a rough cut, as it looks to be the same data. And DAZ_Rawb is confusing the issue just a bit (bad, bad Rawb!) because what you get in the metadata AND in terms of downloaded/installed cloud products actually lives ON YOUR SYSTEM in the 'data/cloud' directory. Full path to mine - "C:/s4stuff/gen5/data/cloud" where4 "C:/s4stuff/gen5" is my mapped Studio directory.
I tried a couple of workarounds to let file-based management keep alive in the Daz Connect world, they didn't work but I think they could form the basis of a functional workaround. Determining if it could be developed, and which release it could be built in isn't my call to make so I can't promise anything specific.
Oh I know where they were, but thank you, I should have wrote that so other's knew. Window---> Workspace ----> Orient Tabs Along Top
So basically we have been told that eventually we will no longer be able to have a copy of the data that we have purchased. In other words its like buying an ice cream cone and someone else gets to keep it. As I said before i understand the need to try and curb piracy but this is not Cool DAZ not cool at all.
Since we can just not connect to Connect (haha) and still do things as we're used to, it's all good for now. :)
I don't care about clouds, and if DRM helps the vendors it's all good! Just leave me my file system and let things get back to normal.
Thank you Rawb for helping us :)
Yours Truly... One of your dinosaurs :P
Actually no, all your existing product will stay unchanged and still available un-encrypted. We simply said that some day NEW products MAY only be available through Daz Connect, at which time it will be up to you to decide if those specific new products are worth purchasing or not. All your existing content and any content you purchase tomorrow and for the near future will be available un-encrypted. There are no products planned to be available as encrypted only at this time.
I just want to make one thing perfectly clear right now. Please pass it on to whoever will be deciding these things.
Daz will never see so much as one cent from me for any product which is only available through Daz Connect.
...Which kind of defeats the entire claimed purpose for the encryption, doesn't it?
Unfortunately, that is true. The pirates are going to pirate until somebody shoots one in the foot or something. I mean that figuratively, not literally.
That ship has already sailed, I believe.
With the introduction of G3F, everyone I know switched back to DAZ Studio, if they wanted to use her. Besides, many -- even diehard Poser users -- love IRay.
With all due respect -- DAZ has a good thing going. Y'all are the bosses, but what you're doing now, with 4.8, is working very well. I hate to see anyone break a winning streak.
I have a number of misgivings about 4.9, with DAZ Connect at the top of the list.
However, call me naive, but the idea that DAZ might someday modify the licensing agreement for content I've already licensed never occurred to me. And I don't believe they will do that. Why? Because you and I are their bread and butter. If we suddenly find we have to relicense content we've already paid the fee on, we'll take our business—and our money—elsewhere. If we stop buying content through DAZ, the PAs will go elsewhere as well, licensing their content where the buyers are.
Even if the licensing changes for future products, which would also send many of us on our way, it would leave DAZ open to a law suit should they make those changes retroactive for the licensing sold prior to the change. Even if they won such a law suit, (and that's not a foregone conclusion,) it would cost them time and money, and bring them a lot of negative publicity. It's just a lose-lose situation for them.
Worst case scenario, they make licensing finite with renewal fees needed to keep using the content for future products, and grandfather in any content licensed prior to the change. (I still think such a licensing scheme would be shooting themselves in the foot, and signal the beginning of the end of DAZ as we now know them.)
Sorry, I just don't see this happening. I think the folks at DAZ are too smart to go down that road.
I have some questions.
1. What happens if god forbid DAZ goes belly up. We have this encrypted model, and files purchased and encrypted? At least with manual installers we can still use those. With Encrypted installers, what then?
2. Will old studio still continue to be usuable. Do we need to download all the manual installers to ensure an encryption free environement? If so, what is the best way to do that? CAn I just expand my DIM zips or will those be encrypted too? (I have RSI and clicking to manually download 3000 item from the product library is pretty daunting.
3. Will the new features slow Studio down?
4. Will you be encrypting Michael 7?
At least that one has been answered upthread or in the official thread...you get you're authentication key it will supposedly keep working, forever.
Vince, this remark right here totally negates everything you just said in regards to the Connect being optional.
Once any products are available through Connect Only, we must then use Connect, which means we can no longer maintain our OWN hard drive organization. At that point, I can assure you, I will not purchase ANY content that is "Connect Only," no matter how badly I might want the item, or how useful it might be to me.
My libraries are very meticulously organized in a manner that my particular brain can find things instantly. I never have to use a search function to find things. I have been at this for thirteen years, and I have thirteen years of content in my libraries. All of it is organized in the way that best suits MY personal workflow. This organization is extremely particular, and very thorough, and perfectly suits MY workflow.
So, the moment Daz begins putting out "Connect-only" products, your entire statement about Connect being "optional" just became a lie. Period. Because Connect-only products will require us to USE Connect... and therefore it is NO LONGER OPTIONAL.
Also, quite frankly, if Daz wants me to put up with "Daz Connect" then they can bloody well allow me to hand-organize my own libraries the way I personally see fit. I am sick to death of software companies deciding that THEY know better than the end user when it comes to WHAT goes WHERE on OUR HARDWARE.
If Daz wants me to put up with "Daz Connect" - then they had bloody well better figure out a way to allow veteran, hardcore users to CONTINUE to organize their own libraries as THEY CHOOSE. Until that happens, I don't care WHAT the product is, or how badly I want it, or how much it would be useful to me. Until that happens, ANY product that is issued as "Connect only" will be an AUTOMATIC sale LOSS with me.
I understand completely, that there is a need to protect the intellectual property and hard work of the vendors. I got it. But there is utterly no excuse for completely hijacking an end user's personal library organization, and if Daz begins selling Connect-only products under THESE conditions, they will stop making any sales from me on those products.
I don't use DIM, either, for the same reason. I despise it. I download my zip files and manually install them so that the items AND their installers go precisely where I WANT them to be. Daz's own organization is NOT standardized, and there are many products that could fit into multiple categories. I put them where I CHOOSE to have them, in places that make sense to ME.
Aside from that, I also require the ability to actually work on my projects, with my content, while NOT connected to the internet. I am frequently in places with my laptop that I do NOT have an internet connection in. And it's sounding to me like we won't be able to touch ANY Connect-only product to work with unless we are connected to the internet somehow. Not acceptable.
Additionally, if I am going to pay REAL MONEY for a product, I expect to be able to have a COPY of the item I just purchased locally, on MY hardware. No copy? NO PURCHASE! Period.
So don't tell us that Connect is "optional" and then in the same breath tell us that eventually there will be "Connect-only" products. The second statement makes the first statement a lie.
If you want to force us into using Connect, then I strongly suggest your software programmers figure out a way to allow hardcore users to organize their own blasted libraries in a manner that works for them, and I strongly suggest Daz figure out that if they expect people to PAY for a PRODUCT, then they had better darned well DELIVER THE PRODUCT. If I cannot keep a copy of the product on my local machine, then guess what? You are NOT DELIVERING THE PRODUCT.
Now.. I'm really hoping that I am completely misunderstanding the notion of Connect in regards to my own library organization and maintaining a copy of a purchased product. If I am misunderstanding that, then tell me, and I will retract my post. But the way in which it's been explained leads me to believe that Connect will not allow a hardcore user to do their own library organization OR to store a copy of a purchased product on their own machine - and for me, both of those factors make Connect intolerable, and I will NOT use it or buy any product that is released ONLY through it.
So to sum it all up? Here are my three conditions on Daz Connect :
1 - That I maintain the ability to organize my own libraries in the manner in which I see fit to do so.
2 - That I am able to maintain a copy of the product on my own local hardware/machine.
3 - That I am able to maintain the ability to work in DazStudio, and on my scenes, while NOT CONNECTED to the internet.
If those three conditions are met? Great! No problem.
If those three conditions are NOT met, however, then Daz Connect, (and any Connect-only product) can take a long walk off a short pier.
The crew running DAZ theses days really don't inspire the kind of trust and confidence you're advocating, Timmins, nor does what they're advocating seem to warrant it.
And in red is the issue here. We all understand that we can continue to do what we are currently doing that is not the issue. The issue is in the future there will be connect only products and at that time I will NOT pay good money for a product I do not have a copy of. I like my ice cream stored in my own freezer not in the strangers house 10 miles down the road.
1) The encrypted installers (when we start getting them) have an account key on your system, and as long as you still have that, DAZ dying badly won't be an issue.
2) Older Studio installs still work, and I doubt that'll change anytime soon. I'd still hang onto my installers for previous installers.
3) Not thus far, and I've put it through the wringer. On the plus side, the Iray fixes are holding up very well, despite my being a complete d*** to it. The content in this scene is over 4GB above and beyond what Studio needs to run (eight characters, clothes, hair, and NWX Section 18). 4.8's version of Iray wouldn't have done more than one of them.
4) M7 is planned currently, and the nice man said that there were no products yet planned to be released with required encryption. So I expect that you could get it unencrypted through DIM, business as usual. I like my content library the way it is, and have no intention of switching to Smart Content anytime soon.
Of course, that's just what my experiences and thread reading state over the last 24 hours. I could be wrong on any or all of it. Except #3. That's anecdotal, and YMMV. Number 4 is most subject to error.
Rawb, Vince, et al, please state in extremely clear terms...where will the content be stored, both now and in the future, even with any 'Connect only' products.
Will there always be a local copy of that content on MY hard drive? (disregard the DRM aspects for now)
It really depends on what the account key is. Is it tied to hardware? Is it a serial number What autheticates it when and if DAZ servers aren't available or if DAZ goes kaput?
The point is, it works great now. Adding hobbles to content we already own- is regressive. It isn't helpful to the average user.
It is all what I need to know. The issue is in the future there will be connect only products .
and I think, Most of new product will be released as Connect Only Products desigend for new ds future.
and the product should be offerd as encrypting .
Which can more accurately be read "some day (likely very soon) ALL new products will ONLY be available through DAZ Connect". And I agree with the previous poster who stated their belief that Michael 7 will likely kick it off. I wouldn't doubt that this is probably also a test-bed for turning DS into a subscription-based system.
I think the overall point is that while it works great for the end user, it's absolutely terrible for DAZ and the PAs because of the rampant piracy that occurs in the 21st century.
If the system is like any other subscription-based or online-authentication models, then there will be some sort of offline cache or mode that enables people to work without an internet connection. And I believe they've already said a few pages back that there *was* an offline mode.
For the record though, I'm totally in favor of this new DAZ Connect system and moving more towards Smart Content and metadata-based sorting. Legacy support has to be dropped *eventually* and this is a good opportunity to do it.
Here's one...
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/934196/#Comment_934196
And there's another one, but I can't find it right now (I think it is still Rawb) talking about the key and its permanence....
Another quesition- how will we know when products are switched over to encrypted? If I am using the DIM, will encrypted updates be shown in the DIM, or am I safe in assuming the DIM are the format we have now? (Not only for updates, but also the main product.) Thanks in advance, I'm still dense about all this. My main thing is I do NOT want to mix encrypted with the current format.
Hi Seliah,
Daz Connect is entirely optional in Daz Studio 4.9 meaning you can upgrade to 4.9 and continue to use the application exactly as you did 4.8. There is a distinction to make between the Daz Studio application and Products (content) sold through Daz 3D in that using Daz Studio 4.9 does not force you to use Daz Connect. As far as the 4.9 build of Daz Studio goes, you have the option to install your product through Daz Connect or not, you can keep using Daz Install Manager and none of your content will be encrypted or changed in any way from what you have now.
As far as future products (content as opposed to software), yes you are correct, there may be a time where some NEW content (not what you currently own) will only be sold through Daz Connect. If/when that happens you will again have the option to not purchase these new products. We are not in any way forcing you to change how you currently use and organize your content nor do we plan to change this for existing content. It is clear that a decision to offer content as encrypted only will have a serious impact on some users and this is why nothing has changed yet and all products are still available un-encrypted.
It was VERY important to the software development team that Daz Studio 4.9 not affect exisitng user workflows negatively yet provide new ways of purchasing and installing content for 90% of our users who don't use DSON or have specific drive/folder based sorting techniques. We are sensitive to the intricacies of many of our user's workflows and that is why ALL products are still available un-encrypted.
I disagree. Pirates will crack the new system, and it will be worthless. Punishing those who don't pirate, because some people do and making it hard for users to get their content and use it in the way they like, will do nothing but alienate.
A thousand, gazillion times what Seliah says here. A billion trillion gazillion times.
(except the bit about the DIM - I absolutely adore the DIM. Super sonic d/l speed compared to the product library on site, an a right click tells me EXACTLY where it got installed, so i can then go in and change and rename stuff myself)
This whole thing about DAZ Connect - every time a DAZ staff member mentions it, they continue to spout the party line of 'you don't have to use it if you don't want to' - conveniently ignoring the fact that they and the FAQ have clearly stated that future products will be DAZ Connect only.
In other words, YES, we WILL HAVE to use DAZ Connect.
If we want to continue purchasing products through DAZ3D.com we WILL HAVE TO USE THE DAZ CONNECT system.
So please stop saying that DAZ Connect is NOT mandatory or compulsary or that we won't have to use it, so settle your pretty little head down cos it's all ok. :rolls eyes:
I want to continue organizing my runtime the way I want to, the way that makes the MOST sense to my organizing brain. THIS WORKS FOR ME. THIS is why I chose DAZ Studio over Poser in the first bloody place. I don't CARE if it means I'm stuck back in 1995 (thank you very much, DAZ_Rawb, you were doing SO well right up till that condescending moment)
Downloading a purchased product via DAZ Studio itself rather than the DIM, is fine. Updates coming in smaller sizes for tiny updates instead of having to redownload an entire 400mb file for a simple path error is fine. Being STUCK with the way DAZ3D wants to organize stuff in MY runtime is NOT FINE. I do NOT like the way you organize your folders or name your folders. I do not like it at all. Which is why I do it my way.
DRM on products? DRM doesn't work - it's proven over and over and over again that it does NOT work. Within a week - if not sooner, it'll be cracked and piracy of products wil be back to normal. DRM/encryption hurts the non-pirate, legal user more than it hurts pirates. (And I still don't understand if the final QA-checked file is encrypted, how those of us who receive them as gifts by the vendor who created them, will be able to use them inside DS, if this encryption thing and key is supposed to STOP using non-purchased DAZ products inside DS)
Quite frankly, I don't care a toss about the GOOD updates like to iray and 3delight because all this is scaring the heck out of me.
Regardless of how you install a product Daz Connect / DIM / Product Library the content will always be installed locally. Our products are huge (well, maybe not game huge, but big at least) so the idea of having to stream that content every time you want to use it doesn't appeal to us (bandwidth bills) or our users (speed and bandwidth). We have also put effort into making sure that the downloaded files are easily reusable when you recover from a backup or copy to a different machine to avoid any unnecessary downloads.
We have made some improvements to various systems to allow for better "on demand" loading with Daz Connect, for example if you attempt to load a scene but don't have all the right content installed it will pop up a window prompting you to download that content. Some of our employees requested this feature so they wouldn't have to remember what content they needed to render a scene when they copied the scene file from thier laptop to their render machine.
Just think, if you'd offered this exact system, minus the encryption, you would have had crowds of users singing your praises for making things easier.