DAZ Studio 4.12 ... Face creation abilities????

Richard Haseltine · September 2019

lindsaymichael_c8b017d73a said:

where do i find the plugin for this

The pane should be in Window>Panes(Tabs)>Face Transfer if you are using 4.12.0.86 Windows 64, if not check Help>About Installed Plug-ins - if it's disabled you may need (for now) a separate isntall of the required Visual C++ Distributable:

The Face Transfer plugin failing to load on some machines may be due to a dependent library (e.g., msvcp140.dll) that does not exist on the user's machine. If this is the case, until we update the package to either include the VS 2015 redistributable or we can get a 3rd party library compiled with an earlier version of the compiler, users that experience this issue can download/install "Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2015" from Microsoft @ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=48145 and this should resolve the issue.

info_b3470fa520 · September 2019

outrider42 said:

There are rules to follow to get the most out of it, which mirror those of Facegen.

-No toothy smiles, or smiles in general. Keep the expression neutral.

-Use as even lighting as possible.

-Keep hair out of face

-Keep the face level and pointed at the camera. If the face is tilted to the side, just use photoshop or something to straighten it out first.

-Using clear and higher resolution pics will help.

-FOV is important. If you are too close to the face, this distorts the result. Keep the camera back. You want a high quality pic, but not zoomed right up on the subject.

That is a lot of stipulations to consider, and even then, there may still be issues depending on the subject's face. This software can do some things, but Facegen is better. However Facegen is also a lot more expensive, and it certainly is not perfect, either. Facegen allows you to use any texture set as a base. The Pro version sold at Daz can export to ANY Genesis base 1-8, while Face Transfer only does G8. That's cheap Daz! You could at least support G3 since they are so similar.

I am surprised we haven't got to a point where we can use some deepfake AI like tech for this. It has to be possible, did you guys see that Chinese app "Zao" bringing deepfakes to phones. Phones! At the very least, it should be able to create a texture, which is a big part of the battle.

Anyway, I got curious, I do not have this yet since I have not updated Daz yet. But I wanted to see what I could do with one of the images posted here.

Wonderland said:

Sooo, not having much luck... Margot Robbie Face Transfer and then with Mousso's Ryleigh texture....

So what I did was first do a reverse image search to see if I could find a larger pic. I found the exact image at 1600x994. Not huge, but bigger than what was posted here. I then went by my rule and rotated the image a bit until her eyes were level. Then I fired up Facegen, and exported to G8. Of course, with Facegen you must manually apply the textures. I applied them to the default G8 female. She turned out super red, a combination of the generated texture being a bit red plus Daz's strange fetish with orange people. So turned the trans map color to pure white, and the SSS color to white as well. I placed the Facegen textures in both the color and translucency sections. I gave her bluejaunte Amira green eyes, and that is all. I made no texture edits. Even with so little effort, she turns out OK.

So, after this many tweaking, there's another Photo-to-3D software, HeadShop 11. Without any tweaking, dialing or Photoshop, it produced the head below. Repeat, no tweaking, just one click export.

outrider42 said:

To help visualize the morph that FG created, I rendered a clay version. The is the FG shape dialed in to 100% and nothing else.

You can see the shape looks alright. I am actually surprised just how well it worked. I wanted a better image, so I applied bluejaunte Amira's full material preset and gave her a LIE eyeliner. I then replaced the color textures with the textures Facegen created. I also gave her Super Natural Brows, which the default brow fit Margo's face almost perfectly. I made her lashes a bit longer, and that is all I did to make this.

Comparing this Facegen version VS Daz Face Transfer is IMO a no contest. Daz needs to get the lips fixed urgently, and the face contour for that matter. It doesn't seem like Face Transfer is applying much of a morph at all here. The nose is about the only thing it gets sort of right.

Here is my list of things to improve.

-Lip detection, head shape, eyes, eh, all of that.

-add options to use side view pics as well as front pics for better accuracy.

-add options to adjust skin output color, level of blending (to avoid clown faces), and choice of a general skin map. For example, clean shaved necklines or not for men. Basically a few things that Skin Builder might do.

-support for multiple generations. I think its pretty bad that G8 is the only supported model.

There's another Photo-to-3D product called HeadShop 11. The enclosed pictures were made with HeadShop 11 - straight out of the box, one click. No dial spinning, Photoshop, nothing.

info_b3470fa520 · September 2019

There's another Photo-to-3D product called HeadShop 11. Using Outrigger's picture. The enclosed pictures were made with HeadShop 11 - straight out of the box, one click. No dial spinning, Photoshop, nothing.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/uploads/FileUpload/9b/5bb900624bf6eacab633f665c67d7a.jpg

info_b3470fa520 · September 2019

ChadCrypto said:

jukingeo said:

Here is my contribution using FaceTransfer. The beautiful, fabulous and stunning "Queen" of OUAT (Once Upon A Time), Ms Lana Parrilla!

And this is the picture I used of her:

I am SURPRISED! I actually like the way she came out right out of the box with almost no 'hoop jumping' I have to admit that I had to alter her mouth since it came out too thin which is everyone's complaint so far. Also the nose wasn't right. The eyes looked pretty good overall, and the biggest area I had to adjust were the eyebrows and I did some work in the chin/jaw area. But overall about 10 to 15 minutes worth of work (not including render time).   Given that it is $50 for the unlimited version, and $25 on sale, I believe it is worth it. I think I am going to get this, but I do want to try some more out. But again, I want to test more renders before I make a final judgement call.

I will say that I had to use two pictures of Lana before one took. I guess the resolution wasn't that good on the first one. So then I got the one above from a high resolution picture.

A bit of a downside in the final render was that Lana's face is a bit shiny, but then again it is shiny in the photo too.   Lana is definitely in the #1 slot for a permanent face transfer for me. I just have to find a front facial shot of her that isn't so shiny.   You can see I did hide a bit of the watermark using the Sassy Bob hair style. I think for a first shot out of the box, she looks really good. Definitetely better than my attempts with Headshop.

There is another caveat that was pointed out before.   You can't close the eyes otherwise the eyelashes stretch out over them. I am hoping Daz fixes that issue soon. Naturally there are other imperfections as well, but you can still see who it is.

Other than that, I like what I am seeing.

Good render.

One thing to do , to cut down the shininess. is choose all the surfaces. And cut Glossiness to zero. Then you can control what you want to have the glossieness.

I did the same picture using HeadShop 11. No tweakinmg, no dial spinning, no Photoshop. Just one click and export.

Seven193 · September 2019

outrider42 said:

Daz needs to get the lips fixed urgently, and the face contour for that matter. It doesn't seem like Face Transfer is applying much of a morph at all here. The nose is about the only thing it gets sort of right.

Here is my list of things to improve.

-Lip detection, head shape, eyes, eh, all of that.

-add options to use side view pics as well as front pics for better accuracy.

-add options to adjust skin output color, level of blending (to avoid clown faces), and choice of a general skin map. For example, clean shaved necklines or not for men. Basically a few things that Skin Builder might do.

-support for multiple generations. I think its pretty bad that G8 is the only supported model.

I think this is the technology that Daz is using for its face capturing:
http://www.itseez3d.com

If they're using 3rd party tools, then they might not have access to its source code, which means they won't be able to fix things or improve it. We can only hope for fixes on the Daz side.

ChadCrypto · September 2019

Dave230 said:

outrider42 said:

Daz needs to get the lips fixed urgently, and the face contour for that matter. It doesn't seem like Face Transfer is applying much of a morph at all here. The nose is about the only thing it gets sort of right.

Here is my list of things to improve.

-Lip detection, head shape, eyes, eh, all of that.

-add options to use side view pics as well as front pics for better accuracy.

-add options to adjust skin output color, level of blending (to avoid clown faces), and choice of a general skin map. For example, clean shaved necklines or not for men. Basically a few things that Skin Builder might do.

-support for multiple generations. I think its pretty bad that G8 is the only supported model.

I think this is the technology that Daz is using for its face capturing:
http://www.itseez3d.com

If they're using 3rd party tools, then they might not have access to its source code, which means they won't be able to fix things or improve it. We can only hope for fixes on the Daz side.

I don't think itsees3d is the same tech. that is photogrametry using video. This is one image. I think Daz developed this themselves.

Seven193 · September 2019

Look in the directory where Face Transfer creates its textures, and open up the wavefront .obj file.
You will see this line:

# Created by ItSeez3D

Video capture takes one picture at a time and converts it, so no difference there.

sjjesso_78ca0e6d0c · September 2019

AllenArt said:

It takes a LOT of tweaking. After many, many extra morphs and hours, it still all falls apart at the profile. One front shot just isn't enough.

Laurie

I have to agree with you. After trying the free version I'm not impressed with the morph. As a test, THIS is supposed to be Sandra Bullock. Not to mention the details of the face completely disapear. It's like the model is wearing a paper mask.

Petercat · September 2019

Havos said:

Patrick Tyner said:
Richard,I am sorry, I haven't seen an answer posted, are the morphs created able to be use commercially?

Regardless of the DAZ rules, bear in mind that if you use a real persons image as part of your work, in theory you need model rights from that person. This is particularly true for celebrities who protect their image rights strongly.

Speaking as a non-lawyer photographer, that's not exactly true. For example, if it's in public, you don't. Paparazzi?
Or in private, in some situations. There are plenty of resources online that go into detail, such as here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm, or in the UK, here: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/photography-video-capture/cameras/photographers-rights-the-ultimate-guide-1320949

While these are for photography, some of them would apply to 3D creations, such as satire or, in general, non-revenue producing work such as renders of people used here in the forums.

In short, a model release is normally required only when you hope to profit from the images.

ChadCrypto · September 2019

Petercat said:

Havos said:

Patrick Tyner said:
Richard,I am sorry, I haven't seen an answer posted, are the morphs created able to be use commercially?

Regardless of the DAZ rules, bear in mind that if you use a real persons image as part of your work, in theory you need model rights from that person. This is particularly true for celebrities who protect their image rights strongly.

Speaking as a non-lawyer photographer, that's not exactly true. For example, if it's in public, you don't. Paparazzi?
Or in private, in some situations. There are plenty of resources online that go into detail, such as here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm, or in the UK, here: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/photography-video-capture/cameras/photographers-rights-the-ultimate-guide-1320949

While these are for photography, some of them would apply to 3D creations, such as satire or, in general, non-revenue producing work such as renders of people used here in the forums.

In short, a model release is normally required only when you hope to profit from the images.

I agree, at least in the USA, if it's for commercial purposes. like endorsing products. Then you need a release. otherwise, it's safe for fan art and other forms of media that are not commercial.. As far as I have seen.

HatB · September 2019

Richard Haseltine said:

lindsaymichael_c8b017d73a said:

where do i find the plugin for this

The pane should be in Window>Panes(Tabs)>Face Transfer if you are using 4.12.0.86 Windows 64, if not check Help>About Installed Plug-ins - if it's disabled you may need (for now) a separate isntall of the required Visual C++ Distributable:

The Face Transfer plugin failing to load on some machines may be due to a dependent library (e.g., msvcp140.dll) that does not exist on the user's machine. If this is the case, until we update the package to either include the VS 2015 redistributable or we can get a 3rd party library compiled with an earlier version of the compiler, users that experience this issue can download/install "Visual C++ Redistributable for Visual Studio 2015" from Microsoft @ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=48145 and this should resolve the issue.

This solved my problem. Thanks for the information.

DaremoK3 · September 2019

Thank you, Dave230, for the info - it was a fun rabbit hole...

ChadCrypto : The photogrammetry is just the surface products offered at that site.

From connecting the dots, it looks like the itSeez3D's software that DAZ might be using is their Avatar SDK, which works from single front image (not video), and in this case, from a loaded image as opposed to a 'selfie'.

Though, without official DAZ confirmation, I couldn't say this is what they developed Face Transfer from, but one usually doesn't add another company's 'created by' into their OBJ export code. I believe this is at least, somewhat compelling evidence that Dave230 is correct.

If anyone is interested, this might be a more adept link regarding this :

https://itseez3d.com/avatar-sdk.html?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=avatar-sdk

and https://avatarsdk.com/

outrider42 · September 2019

You know, this gets me wondering about things, and it seems the biggest problem for both Facegen and itseez3d is the conversion to Daz. When I use FG the result usually looks great in FG. And when exporting FG to OTHER apps (which needs a different version on FG) it looks 100 times better that it does in Daz. The same thing seems to be an issue with itseez3d, the models look great in everything EXCEPT Daz.

So why is this? Why are things getting lost in translation to Daz Studio??? This is the biggest issue for the plugin. Its not the underlying app, its the conversion. I believe this can be fixed. If it can, then this alone would make it a fantastic app.

WendyLuvsCatz · September 2019

outrider42 said:
You know, this gets me wondering about things, and it seems the biggest problem for both Facegen and itseez3d is the conversion to Daz. When I use FG the result usually looks great in FG. And when exporting FG to OTHER apps (which needs a different version on FG) it looks 100 times better that it does in Daz. The same thing seems to be an issue with itseez3d, the models look great in everything EXCEPT Daz.

So why is this? Why are things getting lost in translation to Daz Studio??? This is the biggest issue for the plugin. Its not the underlying app, its the conversion. I believe this can be fixed. If it can, then this alone would make it a fantastic app.

The lowpoly base Genesis 8 mesh

Seven193 · September 2019

They use a different mesh model to display it in their apps, so the conversion isn't perfect.

You could try to do the conversion yourself, but you need all of these apps to do it:
- FaceGen Modeller - lets you export your FG model to a 3d format
- R3DS Wrap - lets you wrap a 3d model onto a mesh with a different topology

So, export your FG model to a 3d head bust, and then wrap the Genesis base character onto it using R3DS Wrap.
Use Morph Loader Pro to create a morph of it.

I don't have these apps, so I can't tell you if this will work flawlessly or not.

intrinsicanomaly_262dc77de2 · September 2019

I can't find it the content page says this is already included in Daz studio where is it?

outrider42 · September 2019

SadKitty_Carrara said:

outrider42 said:
You know, this gets me wondering about things, and it seems the biggest problem for both Facegen and itseez3d is the conversion to Daz. When I use FG the result usually looks great in FG. And when exporting FG to OTHER apps (which needs a different version on FG) it looks 100 times better that it does in Daz. The same thing seems to be an issue with itseez3d, the models look great in everything EXCEPT Daz.

So why is this? Why are things getting lost in translation to Daz Studio??? This is the biggest issue for the plugin. Its not the underlying app, its the conversion. I believe this can be fixed. If it can, then this alone would make it a fantastic app.

The lowpoly base Genesis 8 mesh

The prime audience for these apps are video games and smartphone avatars, which often have even fewer polygons than Daz Genesis. Take a look at the links at the bottom of the itseez3d page, several are gaming focused sites and they discuss using this app in games. So that is not the reason. And many games can wildly different topology and UV, there is no real standard. The conversion needs to be optimized better for Daz.

Dave230 said:
They use a different mesh model to display it in their apps, so the conversion isn't perfect.

You could try to do the conversion yourself, but you need all of these apps to do it:
- FaceGen Modeller - lets you export your FG model to a 3d format
- R3DS Wrap - lets you wrap a 3d model onto a mesh with a different topology

So, export your FG model to a 3d head bust, and then wrap the Genesis base character onto it using R3DS Wrap.
Use Morph Loader Pro to create a morph of it.

I don't have these apps, so I can't tell you if this will work flawlessly or not.

Like I said above, there is no standard in games, so they always have different mesh and UVs to work with. But I do wonder if Daz's weird way of having the back of the head on the torso UV has anything to do with it. That roundabout method probably would work, actually.

WendyLuvsCatz · September 2019

Yes but they export the highpoly Facegen head and use it to generate normal maps for their lowpoly game mesh heads.

Xenomorphine · September 2019

Both FaceGen and HeadShop are simply way out of many peoples' budgets, including my own. Look at how much they are, at present, even with the discounts applied.

Seven193 · September 2019

outrider42 said:
Like I said above, there is no standard in games, so they always have different mesh and UVs to work with. But I do wonder if Daz's weird way of having the back of the head on the torso UV has anything to do with it. That roundabout method probably would work, actually.

I think the problem has to do with holes. These Face apps like using meshes without holes, because it 's easier to work with, projections, and such. When they convert it to Daz, they have to cut holes in the mouth, nose, and eyes. This changes the shape, which might explain the upper lip problem that both ItSeez3D and Face Transfer have.

JimPierce08 · September 2019

I have varying results, but one thing has been consistent so far. The faces I've produced all have "sparkling eyes." I see that with some of the renders shown here, but not others. I've changed out the eyes, and get different iris colors, but it doesn't get rid of the sparklies. I've edited the textures to blank out the eyes and that doesn't work either. Any ideas? The horizontal line with different reflectivity above and below is also always there, but not always at the same place.

outrider42 · September 2019

SadKitty_Carrara said:
Yes but they export the highpoly Facegen head and use it to generate normal maps for their lowpoly game mesh heads.

How many polygons does it use? I really doubt its that much. And its not like Daz is lacking for polygons in the face, its the most detailed part of the model. If it was lacking here then the wrap programs would not work. They do. That is the difference. If they are going to use an external software it needs to be able to wrap the Genesis mesh properly, and that is where the problems for both FG and Face Transfer lie. They are face generators, but they do not have the proper wrapping mechanism for export to Daz.

For the holes, the mouth is closed for most pics anyway. I think the issue is how the Daz app lines up the lips. It has to be a bug. Neither Facegen nor Headshop have this issue.

outrider42 · September 2019

JimPierce08 said:
I have varying results, but one thing has been consistent so far. The faces I've produced all have "sparkling eyes." I see that with some of the renders shown here, but not others. I've changed out the eyes, and get different iris colors, but it doesn't get rid of the sparklies. I've edited the textures to blank out the eyes and that doesn't work either. Any ideas? The horizontal line with different reflectivity above and below is also always there, but not always at the same place.

That's just the surface settings Daz applies. I'm not sure why they would go with that particular setup. I remember a number of Daz models have this issue, too, including official Genesis 3 models. The other option is to crank up the render quality settings and render a lot longer, which isn't ideal to me. I think we've all pretty much moved on from that time period to use other settings that achieve good results, so this is baffling. Anyway you don't have to change the eyes, just the surface settings.

JimPierce08 · September 2019

outrider42 said:
you don't have to change the eyes, just the surface settings.

I'm new enough that some guidance would be appreciated. Which surface settings in particular?

outrider42 · September 2019

Its been a while, I usually apply a preset I made to fix it if I come across it these days. The surfaces in question would be the cornea and eyemoisture. You have options. One is to check that they have 'thin walled' toggled on. That might might solve it there. You could also apply a shader to them, like a thin-water shader. A thin water shader is included in the Daz Uber set that comes with Studio. Or you could copy a character that has better cornea settings and paste them over the face transfer ones (just the one surface). Or you could go through and plug some numbers in. I found a thread abut this issue, and there is a post that lists in detail what to fix the settings to.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/207091/rendering-dark-eyes-in-iray

Once you have cornea and eyemoisture settings you like, you can save these as a material preset for future use.

JimPierce08 · September 2019

Thanks for that. I played around with a number of settings, and most didn't do much, but there was a big improvement by moving Glossy Layered Weight from 1 to zero.

Artini · September 2019

intrinsicanomaly_262dc77de2 said:

I can't find it the content page says this is already included in Daz studio where is it?

Take a look at https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4903221/#Comment_4903221

and https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4937121/#Comment_4937121

Artini · September 2019

Dave230 said:

outrider42 said:

Daz needs to get the lips fixed urgently, and the face contour for that matter. It doesn't seem like Face Transfer is applying much of a morph at all here. The nose is about the only thing it gets sort of right.

Here is my list of things to improve.

-Lip detection, head shape, eyes, eh, all of that.

-add options to use side view pics as well as front pics for better accuracy.

-add options to adjust skin output color, level of blending (to avoid clown faces), and choice of a general skin map. For example, clean shaved necklines or not for men. Basically a few things that Skin Builder might do.

-support for multiple generations. I think its pretty bad that G8 is the only supported model.

I think this is the technology that Daz is using for its face capturing:
http://www.itseez3d.com

If they're using 3rd party tools, then they might not have access to its source code, which means they won't be able to fix things or improve it. We can only hope for fixes on the Daz side.

I have itseez3d product for Unity and the faces created with them looks better to me,

so I think Daz could improve Face Transfer in the future.

Unfortunately the lips problem exists also in Unity product, so maybe it is just the limit of this approach.

Face Transfer in Daz Studio is far more advanced though, because it creates full characters.

The product for Unity creates only the head without the body,

but it includes lip sync possibility from the web cam and many blendshapes (morphs) for the created faces.

WendyLuvsCatz · September 2019

Artini said:

Dave230 said:

outrider42 said:

Daz needs to get the lips fixed urgently, and the face contour for that matter. It doesn't seem like Face Transfer is applying much of a morph at all here. The nose is about the only thing it gets sort of right.

Here is my list of things to improve.

-Lip detection, head shape, eyes, eh, all of that.

-add options to use side view pics as well as front pics for better accuracy.

-add options to adjust skin output color, level of blending (to avoid clown faces), and choice of a general skin map. For example, clean shaved necklines or not for men. Basically a few things that Skin Builder might do.

-support for multiple generations. I think its pretty bad that G8 is the only supported model.

I think this is the technology that Daz is using for its face capturing:
http://www.itseez3d.com

If they're using 3rd party tools, then they might not have access to its source code, which means they won't be able to fix things or improve it. We can only hope for fixes on the Daz side.

I have itseez3d product for Unity and the faces created with them looks better to me,

so I think Daz could improve Face Transfer in the future.

Unfortunately the lips problem exists also in Unity product, so maybe it is just the limit of this approach.

Face Transfer in Daz Studio is far more advanced though, because it creates full characters.

The product for Unity creates only the head without the body,

but it includes lip sync possibility from the web cam and many blendshapes (morphs) for the created faces.

maybe thats next .....

Artini · September 2019

SadKitty_Carrara said:

outrider42 said:
You know, this gets me wondering about things, and it seems the biggest problem for both Facegen and itseez3d is the conversion to Daz. When I use FG the result usually looks great in FG. And when exporting FG to OTHER apps (which needs a different version on FG) it looks 100 times better that it does in Daz. The same thing seems to be an issue with itseez3d, the models look great in everything EXCEPT Daz.

So why is this? Why are things getting lost in translation to Daz Studio??? This is the biggest issue for the plugin. Its not the underlying app, its the conversion. I believe this can be fixed. If it can, then this alone would make it a fantastic app.

The lowpoly base Genesis 8 mesh

I will check that later, but since itseez3d product for Unity is for game use, I do not think the created heads are very high poly.

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DAZ Studio 4.12 ... Face creation abilities????

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