Commerical Products forum gone?
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It's funny that posts being buried is still cited as a reason it's unfair for outsiders to post here. The commercial forum itself was dead (and I and several others predicted it would be). But the Commons is pretty dead as well. It would take some kind of miracle for posts to get buried around here.
I'd like to know what you are trying to blame that on. Well I blame it on a couple of things. The economies of the world are mainly still cr*p but more importantly it was the disastrous new store opening and the pathetic new forums we got. There was so much work to be done and it took so long that even I went away for a long time. I still bought from the store, but many just went bye-bye.
(Before the switchover I had calculated if I missed a day here I'd have to read through SEVEN pages of posts. Now I consider it busy if I have to go over ONE or one and a half at most.)
Another reason is Genesis which I love to pieces and am hooked on. But the rest of the Community is being awfully slow at adopting Genesis. Many Studio users aren't moving to 4 and few Poser users are even trying it out.
And what does DAZ do? DAZ shuts the door.
For a while I've wanted to make a suggestion. I guess I will make it now.
Anyone, ANYONE, who makes a product for Genesis (not just something that Genesis can use via AutoFit or V4 UVset but specifically for Genesis) should be welcomed in the Commons no matter where they sell it. My God, let's encourage interest in Genesis and perhaps even find vendors who want to take it farther and become our new heroes.
Oh, and extend the privilege to prods made for DS4 such as shaders and/or light sets.
When the participation goes back up to seven pages a day, then let the vendors complain.
(Oh, and don't allow DAZ PA's to simultaneously sell here and their own store at the same time. It's only inevitable that that would cause problems.)
so it hasn't been officially answered yet. if i post a picture, am I allowed to give credits and links to offsite products???
Credit's yes, name of product even, yes. Not certain about the links, that is one matter on the list of things to get confirmed one way or the other afaik.
According to DAZ_BHowell linking is fine:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16374/P195/#241981
I call your bluff.
You know what is the most weird, odd and strange about all of this? I've been here for many years, over 8 years now, and this never has been an issue at all. There always have been lot's of external commercial threads. Now suddenly DAZ feels this is a problem, weird. Well DAZ can do whatever they please on their own website, but with every move they make, they seem to become less open minded. Time to move on..... how's the free from business forum coming along?
Genesis and even the current version of DS have become DAZ's Catch-22.
Most people on off sites don't even support Genesis (which is free currently, so DAZ3D doesn't make a sale on that) but they do support V4 who isn't free, and requires a purchase. Which makes DAZ3D decision to cut them off just weird because it is still some sales for them.
I linked to a discussion thread on this forum and a freebie I made at ShareCG from my gallery at R.com. In both cases, the links were deleted by the moderators and I was told this was a violation of the TOS (how, I have no clue, it's not spelled out in the R.com tos at all)...
But, the moderators there determined that both the thread and the freebie on ShareCG were commercial links... me stoopid, they smaht cuz they figured that out all by themselves and I did not...
I think it would be really nice of DAZ, if they brought the old commercial threads (those of non-DAZ vendors) back for only a day or two (or maybe for a weekend?), so that everyone who wants to backup some useful information that used to be in those threads can do so. I believe it would make many people here happy (or at least less angry), and it would not cost DAZ too much, since it would be only for a few days. It would be a sign of good will on DAZ´s part, towards all those people here who are upset by the recet ban of commercial threads.
What do you think about it, DAZ_BHowell? :question:
I doubt V4 generates much in the way of sales anymore.
I doubt V4 generates much in the way of sales anymore.
I wouldn't actually put any money on that as a bet.
I wouldn't actually put any money on that as a bet.
V4 still has a support (at least, it has it until recent policies) which is a record, I think, for a previous-generation figure, V3 support was dropped very quickly but Poser users enjoy this product because they have both weightmapped and non-weightmapped versions, and no need to dance around with genesis import. Although I do like Genesis more than V4 now, Generation 4 was exceptionally well-made.
For those of you talking about other sites, there are several out there.
There is of course, http://www.cgtalk.com
http://www.united3dartists.com/forum/ - this one would probably appreciate some traffic :)
http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/ - sci fi focussed
http://forums.3dtotal.com/ - a little like CGTalk
http://www.digitaltutors.com/forum/forum.php
http://cghub.com/forum/
http://www.cgtantra.com/forums/
If I may add: Content Creators Guild forums.
http://www.contentcreatorsguild.net/forum
Still have some movement about them and could use more.
Another option for DAZ company - what about earning money with the commercial forum? You could have two commercial forums - one for DAZ PA´s and another for non-DAZ PA´s. Those in the second forum would have to pay some fee to be able to promote their products in DAZ forum. Maybe charged per thread, or a monthly subscription, maybe even based on how big their store is (small sites with just a few items would be charged less than stores from big sites like Renderosity). And the best thing is that now people would even love you for this and say how nice DAZ is to allow the commercial forum after all.
interesting! That one looks like it's a custom fit. I do wish they'd let non-members browse the forums, though...
interesting! That one looks like it's a custom fit. I do wish they'd let non-members browse the forums, though...
Forums aren't very active to put it mildly, but the purpose of that site initially was to talk and learn about 3D content - any of it - which I think is what people might want to look in.
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with that site and I don't use that post to promote them commercially. It is just one of my bookmarks which I found while browsing the internet. A place with forums to discuss 3D.
Forums aren't very active to put it mildly, but the purpose of that site initially was to talk and learn about 3D content - any of it - which I think is what people might want to look in.
probably the best option for people who want a non-affiliated forum. I'll support it. Perhaps you should think about PMing those who expressed interest in it...
Kattey, I just joined... their forum kinda... not easy to navigate... :(
Sadly so. I'm not saying this is a best option to anything. It is just a place I happen to find once.
Sadly so. I'm not saying this is a best option to anything. It is just a place I happen to find once.
Maybe that's why they don't let you actually see what the forums look like first... :( (r.com's forums are set up poorly as well, imho, I never liked them).
there's also the Artist Space at www.free3dcontent.net .... they allow commercial posts, as well as general discussions and also have onsite freebie hosting and off-site freebie linking. Membership is free and they provide forums for WIP works (commercial/non commercial are allowed) discussion, commercial adverts and other subjects.. there are also galleries to display your works, and each member also has his/her own private studio area to blog about themselves and their projects...
seems like, the store may be overly niche the last several months? resulting a narrower customer base.
Dustrider, Appreciate your post.
There have been a couple of posts about concerns regarding plugins in this thread. I would add the caveat that the same rules apply. There ARE plugins that are sold on the DAZ site. We are only talking about those that are not offered on the site.
I also want to address that idea that because of this one change, the WHOLE DAZ forum is now no longer a place where some customers want to be.
You can believe that we looked at the forum traffic on these threads vs the overall forum traffic. And while the visits to that section were not what I would describe as trivial, (otherwise, we wouldn't be having this lengthy of a discussion about it) those visits were a VERY, VERY small percentage of the overall forum visits.
So to believe that the ENTIRE forum has changed because of these new limitations imposed on this ONE SECTION is overreacting at best and disingenuous at worst.
Customers are still able to share renders, tips and tricks, ask for help, offer help, and do everything they could previously do with one small exception.
The only thing that has changed is that we want to emphasize and focus the commercial thread discussions on DAZ and DAZ PA products and not competitive or 3rd party products.
Even so, I think what I hear you saying is that this will be an inconvenience to you because now you will have to visit other sites to get information on 3rd party products that you are interested in.
If it helps at all let me just say again, we think this change is in the best interest of DAZ PA's and DAZ itself and sincerely add... we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.
Again, Thank You BHowell for not only responding to my post, but also for being active in this discussion, I really do appreciate your time and attention!
I hope you didn't think that in my previous post I was trying to say the ENTIRE forum has changed due to these new limitations being imposed, as this is certainly not true. As often happens with forum posts, I may not have been as clear as I had intended to be, so I will try to clarify my position a bit better.
Due to DAZ3D having a bit of a unique business model (for lack of a better term), where you provide a content and software brokerage service, you develop and sell your own 3D content, and you develop and sell your own 3D software, it can make it difficult to communicate which portion of your business one might be referring to. Many of my statements were made with reference to the 3D software portion of your business, and more specifically, where that software is designed to provide facilities for other vendors to develop plugins to extend the functionality and/or usability of your software. My general expectations with regard to DAZ3D, as the software owner/developer, would be the same as with any other company in this same role. That general expectation is that in order to ascertain information about plugins that enhance the function and usability of the software, I would typically go to the software vendors website. Often, but not always, the software vendor has a web page dedicated to listing, and providing links to, relevant plugins that may be used with their software. If such a listing does not exist, then this is typically handled via a forum or similar type of interactive web based medium.
So, with this in mind, when I asked if I can't get this information here, then where do I go, this was neither an over reaction or being disingenuous. Here, at DAZ3D, is where I would expect to find such information, as it is information about products that actually enhance your software, and improve and solidify it's position within the market. Due to the overall nature of your business, I could understand your desire to limit and/or not allow open discussions, bordering on advertisement, for plugins that compete directly with plugins that are sold here. However, to me, it just doesn't seem to make good business sense to not allow open discussion and/or announcement of products that make your software "better" when you don't have an equivalent solution available here in your store.
Right now, the best secondary location I know of to go for information regarding DS plugins would be Renderosity. With respect to Carrara, it would be either Renderosity or Carrara Cafe. So, under this new policy, to find the desired information, my first option will be to check the forums at Renderosity, then Carrara Cafe. I'm not trying to say that because of this change I'm not going to participate in the forums here anymore (actually I lurk more than participate), but it does mean that I will go to "R" more, and due to limited time, I will spend less time here. Knowing that I will be participating there more, it's only natural to deduce that thanks to their product advertising, even in the forums, dollars that I might otherwise spend here could end up being spent there. Now, to be perfectly honest, I doubt DAZ3D would notice the loss of some of my spending here much at all, as my spending is pretty restricted. But, I doubt I'm the only person who would end up going elsewhere to to find information on available plugins.
I realize that for the software brokerage portion of the DAZ3D business model, allowing forum posts which could lead to the potential loss of revenue here at DAZ, to purchase a plugin not brokered by DAZ, could be, and no doubt should be, seen as undesirable. At the same time however, there is also a potential loss of software customers that desire, or need, certain functionality not provided by the base DS or Carrara products, but that may be provided by non DAZ brokered plugins. If this information is not readily available here, then they may well take their software purchase(s) somewhere else. I also realize that DS being free makes the true evaluation of potential loss from this type of scenario even more difficult, but in the case of Carrara (my favorite 3D software), it is a true loss of revenue for DAZ.
I won't belabor my point any more, but I honestly feel that being able to openly discuss and/or announce plugins that don't duplicate functionality of any plugins found here at the store, would actually benefit DAZ. But I also realize that DAZ would no doubt prefer they be brokered here, and as a result may feel that this could be detracting from your bottom line. My only hope is that as a company, you ultimately decide that providing this "service" to your software customers, and encouraging the development of plugins by non DAZ brokered vendors to continue to enhance the functionality of your base software and solidify it's position in the market place, is a greater benefit than any potential loss in revenue due to money being spent elsewhere for plugins that can only be used on your products.
Finally, I wanted to thank you for your apology. Though not needed, and certainly not expected, it is accepted. I also wanted to mention that DAZ3D has always treated me well, when I've had issues or complaints, they have been addressed promptly and typically with results better than anticipated.
Sorry for the long post!!
This is what I suggested as well. People would want to advertise here because out of all the sites, Daz gets the most visits. Kinda pointless wanting to get exposure on a smaller unknown site that hardly generates any traffic even if they allow you to post a thread or advertise for free.
Joined hours ago, they're taking forever to approve my membership :(
Joined hours ago, they're taking forever to approve my membership :(
It looks to me as if they only have a very small number of members. It´s the same people posting over and over, often without anyone else ever reacting to their posts.
From all the posts here it is obvious that many people want / need a forum where they could learn about new products for DAZ, Poser, Carrara and other 3D software. It is also painfully obvious that DAZ company is not going to change their mind and provide such a forum. A replacement has to be found, preferably quickly. But everyone going solo is not a good idea. Some people will go to site A, others to site B, another ones to C or D etc. That can´t work. We want to have all that in one place, so doing the exact opposite (everyone using a different site) would defeat the purpose.
We as a comunity, both artists and content makers, have to agree on a solution and then all of us must stick with that decision. The decision that we must make together is - where should we go to share info about non-DAZ products? We can either choose one of the existing forums (that allows such posts) or create a new one. But we must do it as a whole, not as individuals, otherwise it won´t succeed. We must agree on a single place which we will all visit - some to post about their products, others to find info about those products.
I am not saying that we should leave DAZ or their forum. In fact, I still plan to visit the forum here and buy products in DAZ store. But if DAZ forbids to share info about non-DAZ products in their forum from now on, we should comply and share it somewhere else.