Michael 8

3Diva

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me. Also, Micheal 8 is one really white dude in many pics, like he hasn't spent a day in the sun in years. That seems strange for a character who is supposed to be a bit more mature, and thus weathered. He has the skin of a teenager, which I thought would be a different product, lol. It just seems to me that there is a one step forward and one step back compared to some of the outstanding characters that were released at the end of the 7 cycle. V8/M8 (at least in the pictures I have seen posted) do not look as interesting as, say, a character by Kayleyss.

My guess as to why is perhaps the new dual lobe specularity settings are being used a bit too much. As this is new, it is something people are still figuring out. Maybe it will get better, but in general Genesis 3 had pretty much figured that stuff out. IMO, in so many pictures of G8, the skin lacks any significant detail, and this breaks the realism. Where did the detail go?

Like with real skin, lighting plays a big difference in how the skin looks on the Genesis 8 figures - more so than the previous figure lines. My recommendation: Don't try to render with the default settings. Those are kind of rubbish, imo, when it comes to decent lighting and render settings. 

But lighting and render settings can make a difference for sure. Here's Victoria 8's textures "out of the box", I didn't change any of the skin settings - the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings:

 

 

The skin can look quite different depending on the lights and render settings. Here's another with Victoria 8's textures:

To me, the skin doesn't lack detail at all. It just requires some adjustments to lighting and render settings. 

The default settings don't look very good, imo. Here's Victora 8's textures "out of the box" with no changes and the default Iray render settings:

It doesn't look very good with the default Iray settings, in my opinion.

But here are the exact same textures with no changes to the skin settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings:

To me, Victoria 8's skin looks fantastic - just not under the default settings. Like with real skin, some thought needs to be put into lighting. And the render settings are really important as well. 

Gregorius

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me.

This sounds a bit like the Uncanny Valley to me.  It's a concept in both robotics and CGI.  As something gets more human-like in appearance, it becomes more attractive, until it reaches the cusp of true realism.  At the point where it could almost but not quite pass for a real live human being, the attractiveness takes a sharp nosedive, and it becomes creepy, at least for some people.

SpyroRue

Gregorius said:

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me.

This sounds a bit like the Uncanny Valley to me.  It's a concept in both robotics and CGI.  As something gets more human-like in appearance, it becomes more attractive, until it reaches the cusp of true realism.  At the point where it could almost but not quite pass for a real live human being, the attractiveness takes a sharp nosedive, and it becomes creepy, at least for some people.

Im not really sure it has reached that degree of 'realism' yet. I think they've not made much progress since Genesis 3 for this supposed next-generation, and that there is the problem. "One step forwards, one step back." Yes some things are improvements, but there is much about G8 that makes it worse than G3 was. And both when compared to G2, sure the materials were improved from G2 to G3, but that's because it switched from non-PBR to a PBR engine, totally expected. You render G2 in iray with good materials and more appropriate modified textures to suite iray and its epic! (minus the awesome G3 rigging (which is in its favor))... the model G3/G8 itself I don't think was much an improvement at all. As for realism... mmmm honestly I feel they were on a better track with G3 mats, and that's not to say it was all that real, its a very stylized look, in some respects its like 3delight on steroids, but hardly realistic in todays 3d human rendering standards. - and thats not a bad thing! nothing wrong with a bit of stylization, its just a lack of progress from G3 to G8, and I think that hurts it.

fred9803

Gregorius said:

This sounds a bit like the Uncanny Valley to me.  It's a concept in both robotics and CGI.  As something gets more human-like in appearance, it becomes more attractive, until it reaches the cusp of true realism.  At the point where it could almost but not quite pass for a real live human being, the attractiveness takes a sharp nosedive, and it becomes creepy, at least for some people.

I think you may be right about that. But nobody said he was supposed to look human. He looks more toonish than human to me.

ANGELREAPER1972

ThatGuy said:

Here is my render of Michael 8.  I fooled around with the skin to make it glisten.

 

that's a pretty cool realistic effect you got there 

ANGELREAPER1972

divamakeup said:

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me. Also, Micheal 8 is one really white dude in many pics, like he hasn't spent a day in the sun in years. That seems strange for a character who is supposed to be a bit more mature, and thus weathered. He has the skin of a teenager, which I thought would be a different product, lol. It just seems to me that there is a one step forward and one step back compared to some of the outstanding characters that were released at the end of the 7 cycle. V8/M8 (at least in the pictures I have seen posted) do not look as interesting as, say, a character by Kayleyss.

My guess as to why is perhaps the new dual lobe specularity settings are being used a bit too much. As this is new, it is something people are still figuring out. Maybe it will get better, but in general Genesis 3 had pretty much figured that stuff out. IMO, in so many pictures of G8, the skin lacks any significant detail, and this breaks the realism. Where did the detail go?

Like with real skin, lighting plays a big difference in how the skin looks on the Genesis 8 figures - more so than the previous figure lines. My recommendation: Don't try to render with the default settings. Those are kind of rubbish, imo, when it comes to decent lighting and render settings. 

But lighting and render settings can make a difference for sure. Here's Victoria 8's textures "out of the box", I didn't change any of the skin settings - the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings:

 

 

The skin can look quite different depending on the lights and render settings. Here's another with Victoria 8's textures:

To me, the skin doesn't lack detail at all. It just requires some adjustments to lighting and render settings. 

The default settings don't look very good, imo. Here's Victora 8's textures "out of the box" with no changes and the default Iray render settings:

It doesn't look very good with the default Iray settings, in my opinion.

But here are the exact same textures with no changes to the skin settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings:

To me, Victoria 8's skin looks fantastic - just not under the default settings. Like with real skin, some thought needs to be put into lighting. And the render settings are really important as well. 

I like how her face/skin  looks in the adjusted versions with the shine seems to have more life in her and her eyes kinda got a soul to them

3Diva

ANGELREAPER1972 said:

divamakeup said:

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me. Also, Micheal 8 is one really white dude in many pics, like he hasn't spent a day in the sun in years. That seems strange for a character who is supposed to be a bit more mature, and thus weathered. He has the skin of a teenager, which I thought would be a different product, lol. It just seems to me that there is a one step forward and one step back compared to some of the outstanding characters that were released at the end of the 7 cycle. V8/M8 (at least in the pictures I have seen posted) do not look as interesting as, say, a character by Kayleyss.

My guess as to why is perhaps the new dual lobe specularity settings are being used a bit too much. As this is new, it is something people are still figuring out. Maybe it will get better, but in general Genesis 3 had pretty much figured that stuff out. IMO, in so many pictures of G8, the skin lacks any significant detail, and this breaks the realism. Where did the detail go?

Like with real skin, lighting plays a big difference in how the skin looks on the Genesis 8 figures - more so than the previous figure lines. My recommendation: Don't try to render with the default settings. Those are kind of rubbish, imo, when it comes to decent lighting and render settings. 

But lighting and render settings can make a difference for sure. Here's Victoria 8's textures "out of the box", I didn't change any of the skin settings - the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings:

 

 

The skin can look quite different depending on the lights and render settings. Here's another with Victoria 8's textures:

To me, the skin doesn't lack detail at all. It just requires some adjustments to lighting and render settings. 

The default settings don't look very good, imo. Here's Victora 8's textures "out of the box" with no changes and the default Iray render settings:

It doesn't look very good with the default Iray settings, in my opinion.

But here are the exact same textures with no changes to the skin settings, the only thing I changed was the lighting and render settings:

To me, Victoria 8's skin looks fantastic - just not under the default settings. Like with real skin, some thought needs to be put into lighting. And the render settings are really important as well. 

I like how her face/skin  looks in the adjusted versions with the shine seems to have more life in her and her eyes kinda got a soul to them

Thank you. :) And yeah, I totally agree about the eyes. :)

Damsel

I like Gen 8, and I do see a difference with expressions. I bought the pro pack with both male and female. What I didn't like was the clothing quality. The fantasy armor wasn't up to Daz standard, IMHO. And what's with the himbo armor? Look, I like half nekkid beefake as much as the next romance novelist. But nobody has ever gone into combat with armor that leaves your ribs and stomach unprotected. I know we do that with fantasy female armor, but I don't like it there either. (And don't get me started on armored high heels. That makes as much sense as high heeled sneakers). Grrr.

Llynara

I agree, lighting skins for G8 is definitely different. I've never used default lighting, I don't like it. I played until I found something that worked for G3 and am doing the same thing now for G8. Sometimes it's different for each character or setting, though there are some I keep going back to.

@ThatGuy Gorgeous render! Love the detail and the sweat. The water bottle is a great touch.

Rafmer

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me. Also, Micheal 8 is one really white dude in many pics, like he hasn't spent a day in the sun in years. That seems strange for a character who is supposed to be a bit more mature, and thus weathered. He has the skin of a teenager, which I thought would be a different product, lol. It just seems to me that there is a one step forward and one step back compared to some of the outstanding characters that were released at the end of the 7 cycle. V8/M8 (at least in the pictures I have seen posted) do not look as interesting as, say, a character by Kayleyss.

My guess as to why is perhaps the new dual lobe specularity settings are being used a bit too much. As this is new, it is something people are still figuring out. Maybe it will get better, but in general Genesis 3 had pretty much figured that stuff out. IMO, in so many pictures of G8, the skin lacks any significant detail, and this breaks the realism. Where did the detail go?

While I agree with you on your opinion about this new generation, I don't think the problem lies in the dual lobe specularity, but in the changes to translucency. They got rid of the SSS maps with sub dermal details and replaced them with almost plain color maps. That's is the main reason I see for this wax look; the removal of life under the skin.

ThatGuy

Llynara said:

I agree, lighting skins for G8 is definitely different. I've never used default lighting, I don't like it. I played until I found something that worked for G3 and am doing the same thing now for G8. Sometimes it's different for each character or setting, though there are some I keep going back to.

@ThatGuy Gorgeous render! Love the detail and the sweat. The water bottle is a great touch.

thanks, @Llynara.  You are looking differen these days :-)

RCDeschene

[ignore this]

RCDeschene

Gregorius said:

I would've posted this sooner, but I have my own shaders, and I spent a couple of days creating a gender-flexible texture set for G8F only to discover that the UVs for G8M were just different enough to render my hard work useless for G8M.  I really didn't feel like going through the whole process all over again, at least not so soon.  Just today, however, I found a utility for sale that would allow me to swap UV sets for G8M and G8F, so I was finally able to do this render of M8.

Want! ShareCG it, maybe? :)

Mistara

woahm the m8 pro gave the other mike pros free

Mistara

SpyroRue said:

Orpheus13 said:

SpyroRue said:

Orpheus13 said:

JOdel said:

Right. What happened to the basic Head and Body morphs and the basic expression package? We need these for the G8M base, regardless of whether we opt for M8. C'mon, people. The basic tools should be available when the base is.

So I suppose this isn't what you're expecting ?

https://www.daz3d.com/expressive-faces-one-click-morph-expressions-for-michael-8

Nope. They mean the male version of these, which are the basic morph sets daz always produce along side a figures release, essential for custom characters, expressions and tune ups

https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-female-body-morphs
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-female-head-morphs
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-female-expressions

Yeah, those are on my list, I suppose they're must-have if you intend to do anything serious with Daz ? I feel like if you get these you don't need to add any pre-made character, am I right ?

And do these make the one-click expression packs totally useless or are they complementary ?

It all adds to your tool kit. Many (myself aswell) see them as the basic staples. The bread an butter so to speak. You could in theory just use them alone for your own characters for sure. But theres always things other later kits provide that these basic ones dont, and all character's also add to the genetic pool, and give you textures too. I always focus on these sort of partial morph kits first, Zev0 also does essential partial morphing kits among other PAs, highly recomend his products if you intend to get into custom characters

 

for male pinups, the m8 intimates are like a must-buy too

Daywalker Designs

Rafmer said:

outrider42 said:

I cannot shake how much the main promos look like they were taken from a low budget 1990's sci-fi, possibly Canadian.

While that gives me a bit of a chuckle, there is just something that feels very "off" about Micheal 8 and the whole of Genesis 8 for that matter. So many of these promos look both better and worse at the same time. It is extremely hard to explain but I'll try. One thing for sure is the overly waxy look these images possess, they could pass as wax figures in a museum, and wax figures are often super creepy. That is instantly off putting to me. Also, Micheal 8 is one really white dude in many pics, like he hasn't spent a day in the sun in years. That seems strange for a character who is supposed to be a bit more mature, and thus weathered. He has the skin of a teenager, which I thought would be a different product, lol. It just seems to me that there is a one step forward and one step back compared to some of the outstanding characters that were released at the end of the 7 cycle. V8/M8 (at least in the pictures I have seen posted) do not look as interesting as, say, a character by Kayleyss.

My guess as to why is perhaps the new dual lobe specularity settings are being used a bit too much. As this is new, it is something people are still figuring out. Maybe it will get better, but in general Genesis 3 had pretty much figured that stuff out. IMO, in so many pictures of G8, the skin lacks any significant detail, and this breaks the realism. Where did the detail go?

While I agree with you on your opinion about this new generation, I don't think the problem lies in the dual lobe specularity, but in the changes to translucency. They got rid of the SSS maps with sub dermal details and replaced them with almost plain color maps. That's is the main reason I see for this wax look; the removal of life under the skin.

I don't think either are a problem; I think the problem is that we expect to see all of the detail in renders, even though not all are noticeable in most photographs without special lighting tricks or in most day to day experiences we have.

RKane_1

ThatGuy said:

Here is my render of Michael 8.  I fooled around with the skin to make it glisten.

 

Wonderful! Would you share your settings for the glistening effect? :)

ThatGuy

RKane_1 said:

ThatGuy said:

Here is my render of Michael 8.  I fooled around with the skin to make it glisten.

 

Wonderful! Would you share your settings for the glistening effect? :)

I don't mind sharing it, but Yikes(!) let me see if I saved it (cross fingers)....

Byrdie

He is gorgeous! I can only aspire to that level of skill, lighting continues to drive me bonkers even after 12-plus years doing 3D its secrets continue to elude me. And of course the tricks & skills I learned in Poser (or the occasional toe-dipping into other programs like Bryce, Carrara and Vue) do not always translate. But I am eager to learn and grateful for any advice. 

L'Adair

I like M8. He reminds a little of one of my nephews, (though much, much taller.)

Here is a quick render out-of-the-box, using the Henley Shirt and Jeans outfit, Morley hair, (with the smoothing morph,) a pose from Z Burly Male, and the only lighting one of the sky HDRIs from TerraDome 3.

Repose

nemesis10

I am happy with him...  and very pleased that he can use a previous generation as new characters are made specifically for him. Here he is using the Marcelo skin and the Quinton morph:

scorpio

Dialed using head and body morphs, about 6% M8 and Dash Skin

Gregorius

RCDeschene said:

Want! ShareCG it, maybe? :)

Thanks for your interest.  I do hope to share these textures at some point, though perhaps as part of a (fairly cheap) for-sale set.  You see, I have the figure set up so that I can control key shader values via parameter dials.  I think this could potentially be a popular item, if only I could figure out a way to conveniently redistribute it.  As it stands, it requires a bit of CR2 file editing which the end user would have to carry out according to instructions that I'd provide in the package (in other words, "some assembly required").

I've tried creating a PZ2 file that would apply everything to an un-edited figure after loading it (like a traditional MAT or INJ pose), and it works...until you try to save the scene.  Then, Poser invariably crashes for some reason.  I've figured out that the problem lies in the links between the shader values and the intermediate value parameters that are then enslaved to the main control dials, but I cannot figure out why.  It's weird, really.  If you load a customized CR2 with those shader-to-dial connections baked in, Poser will save the scene just fine, but if you try to apply the very same connections to a CR2 after it's already been loaded, it crashes upon any attempt to save the scene.

I might have to bite the bullet and learn Python scripting, which shouldn't be too hard, since my undergraduate minor was software engineering, and I'm at least decent at programming.  Either that, or I could find an interested collaborator with the necessary skills.  I might need a partner anyway just to translate my Poser Pro 11 shaders to Daz Studio 4.9, unless I'm willing to significantly limit my pool of potential buyers.

In the meantime, I can at least play around with the shader settings.  Turn my "Skin" parameter dial down from 2 to 0, and suddenly, Mike's not nearly as white!  Much like I do with hair, I don't bother with different maps for different complexions.  I just use one base skin texture and vary the color procedurally.

ANGELREAPER1972

FRIENDS

featuring Michael 8 with Victoria 8 and Olympia 8

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/423206

sapat

scorpio said:

Dialed using head and body morphs, about 6% M8 and Dash Skin

Uh....wowzer!  That is gorgeous!  Gonna have to go dig out Dash!! From what they show in the promos he has the right palm coloring too.

nohiznguyen

ANGELREAPER1972 great render! 

 

vwrangler

Michael 8 in there somewhere with a lot of sliders. Texture from Tyler M6, sent through map transfer to G2M, and then another program from elsewhere to get it to G3/G8 Base Male.

Click here to see larger and in more detail, along with explanation.

 

ANGELREAPER1972

thanks nohiznguyen

Fragg1960

Some really nice renders on here (some have excellent lighting), but I personally don't like the Micheal 8 look out of the box. Instead of putting him in medieval armor for the promo (looks totally awkward in it) they should have put him in skinny jeans and handed him a soy latte.  Gonna have to spin some dials to make M8 look manly enough for any renders that require a regular guy look.