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Oh, theyre not obsolete? So i can use all of the genesis evolution morphs with genesis 2? How about the other morph packs for genesis 1?
And Im not "overreacting." Frankly, what I am is a customer. You know, the guy with the money? I'm more than a little off-put by a vendor coming to tell me to basically shut up.
My worry for the split in bases is for things like creature morphs. In Genesis, if I wanted a female troll I could do it. Now I'm worried that for some morphs we're only going to see a male or female version and not the pair.
Similarly for clothes, aside from the comedy value of putting a dress on the most ridiculous morph you could, it was pretty cool to be able to fit some male clothing on a woman (like armour) and still have it work. It was great for if you wanted a fantasy girl who didn't have half her skin exposed. I hope they allow for auto-fit between the male and female bases as a way to solve this.
The final big concern I have is if the female base will allow for male UVs. Last year for an RRR challenge I morphed up a female hag with a variety of morphs but the best texture I had for the look was The Immortal (an M4 morph) so I just slapped it on and changed the UV. This kind of versatility is what made Genesis so cool, I hope we don't lose it. I'm just downloading Gen 2 now so I haven't had a chance to test this yet.
I'm now really glad that the only gen 5 content I have is V5 and M5, with gen 6 coming so soon afterwards (and with there still being gaps in gen 5) I'm really glad I didn't invest more money in it. I did however dump a ton of money on Genesis content and now I'm really going to have to think about whether I'll invest in gen 6 or not. I've been broke lately (thanks to that spending) but am in the process of switching jobs and will have a lot more disposable income very soon, I'm just not sure if I'll be disposing of it on DAZ's store now.
Here's a thought.
If the G1 outfits will fit G2F (no G2M at the moment) with a few 'minor' tweaks using Autofit, then how about the vendors offer upgrades from G1 to G2F at a reasonable price for existing customers?
That will go some way to alleviate any suspicion that both the vendors and DAZ are just doing this for the money and no other reason.
However if we find the market flooded with essentially G2F only versions of the same items then we can draw our own conclusions.
As I've said before DAZ, don't just tell us it's better but show us the improvements. It can't be that hard can it?
Could you use Gen4 morphs directly on Genesis? No you couldn't without conversion.
Can you use Evolution morphs with Genesis 2?
Yes and No.
Yes they'll transfer, but no they won't look right without a corresponding shape to work with, though the Genesis clone is in Gen2. So some of the morphs could work, but probably not the full body ones as the shaping of the chest area is now different.
Head morphs do cross over very well. Which is probably what most people want out to convert.
Well most times, I see this and months later I see the same person beaming about the product once the smoke clears. Happens all the time. So I figured you may want to head it off at the pass ;). It's not as dire as you make it.
I have spent enough on Gen1 stuff. And now, there is Gen 2 stuff. V6, which does not empress me at all. But, there was a couple of things I did like. Just need Gen 2. But, I can not find just the Gen 2. There are morphs for Gen 2. But, no Gen 2. Anyone know where the Gen 2 is?
:-S
Witch Storm ~ If you refer to the start of this thread you'll find info on where Gen2 is
It's in your product library. You'll have to do a search.
I had it in my DIM without having to search through the Product Library
The DAZ studio 4.6 pro download has the Genesis 2 Female Starter essential download. Check your products Library.
Thanks always learning and Pixel8ted. What about the people that didn't buy genesis 1. How will they buy Genesis 2 If they can't find it? They just might Genesis 2, and not Genesis 1.
Was it in there all this time, or did they add it, to it just now?
Genesis 1 comes in the original Genesis starter essentials package, which comes as part of the DS bundle. So if you have DS 4.5 or 4.6 then you have Genesis.
Genesis 2 has it's own Starter essentials pack.
Well, I'm downloading Genesis 2 as I type, but I'm also pretty annoyed. Because guess what? I spent all sorts of money on all sorts of stuff for the original Genesis too. And I'm not likely to have any more spending money for quite a while, so even if Genesis 2 turns out to be absolutely amazing, I won't be able to get anything for it. It's a really good thing the older Genesis and other figures still work just fine. Nothing at all says I *have* to use the absolute newest stuff, after all. I'll just hang out with my wonderfully versatile Genesis that can morph into anything I want it to, dress it with all the fabulous clothes hanging in its wardrobe, and call it good.
I just briefly tested her, and i'm not impressed!
Sure, facial expression are a tat better, but not much else.
All your .dsb format dont work on her, only .duf.
She doesn't have a V4 UV map set, so 90% of my textures doesnt work on her.
Why make a Gen2 so soon? Rather fix the many bugs on Gen1 first.
Sort of a Gen 1,2 like v4.2.
All the bugs from Gen 1, are still on Gen 2.
It works fine with C8.5 and Lux:
The HDR/Background was made by HeraldOfFire
Because then they couldn't sell us the essentials* all over again.
*Lower case e. I know the "Starter Essentials" are free, so don't bother.
Because then they couldn't sell us the essentials* all over again.
*Lower case e. I know the "Starter Essentials" are free, so don't bother.
Check your Daz Starter Essentials. I found it for Genesis 2 in my products.
Check your Daz Starter Essentials. I found it for Genesis 2 in my products.
*headdesk*
Seriously... am I being trolled here?
Ok, some perspective... I was not one to have any interest in Gen4 chars or before after Genesis came out other then how the clothing, characters, etc.. could be converted to Genesis. Genesis was great in bringing in a gender crossing, all encompassing character. The flexibility of the character is great. But... with anything that is all encompassing, there are limitations that result in being less suited for specific applications. So, with the new Gen6 characters we get a split again. This means better expressions, bending, gender specific morphs, etc... but at a loss of cross compatibility. This all brings up a concept that I realized a while back but haven't talked about as of yet.
In many areas of artwork we have things divided... background, mid, foreground, close-up, extreme close-up... in movies and stories we have the main characters, supporting characters, background characters, and the masses... In each scenario, the level of resources, time, detail vary. We would not include the same cherry blossom on an extreme closeup as we would on a tree that is in the background... Thus is the scenario as I see it here. Genesis 2, or Gen6 at the moment appears to me to be the 'main character' type, where detail matters but volume of resources isn't as important. All of the flexibility of Genesis 1, or Gen5, will be the bulk of many people's library for the foreseeable future probably. In this case, Gen5 and Gen6 will probably live side-by-side in many if not almost all of the users for quite a while. I do not see a mass of "I'm only going to use (Gen2 in this case) from now on" as we did with Genesis. With that perspective, Genesis 2 seems a nice addition.
In the end, with the lower poly count and higher flexibility, Genesis 1 could be the longest running generation character for a long time, as it will probably move to the function of filling out cloned background characters eventually and hold that position when we are on to Gen7, 8... maybe beyond.
[Edit (Addition)] If this proves to be the case, it means none of the investment in Genesis will have been wasted, nor any time spent converting from previous generations to Genesis, as it may be still being used 10 years from now, when Genesis 2 is just a memory. It also means I wouldn't recommend trying to convert libraries wholesale over to Genesis 2, as in this scenario, it is a more specialized character. Only time will tell if this is correct, but it's worth a thought.
I've just finished downloading G2F, and giving her an initial test look. The thing that struck me right off the bat was the basic similarities with V5, although there were a few differences. G2F is very *unlike* GBF, and would be a definite improvement over *that* particular model setup for use not requiring the extreme morphing capabilities of the Genesis 1 platform.
A step backwards? No, not so much to me a step backwards, as a step perhaps sideways. I was never completely sold on the claimed universal aspect of the Genesis 1 platform, despite its extreme morphing capabilities. There are just a number of differences between male, and female human shapes that are difficult, if not outright impossible for a single universal mesh to handle, no matter how capable its morphing abilities are. I'm of the opinion that DAZ perhaps agrees with my take on this, thus the Genesis 2 'gender split'.
I'm seriously considering making G2F a part of my artists toolkit at this point, and await further developments...
The release of a new figure does not immediatly make the old obsolete.
I still see a ton of life in Genesis one. It is far from dead…....it is just the sexually ambiguous sibling to Genesis 2 female (and the upcoming male). They are all part of the same family.
This is basically what I was trying to express in my previous post, but in a more succinct way. :)
when you refund the 3 grand I spent in the last 3 months, you can tell me its not dire. Its not about beaming about the product. the product looks great. Shame I spent so much getting genesis 1 workable. Im not just going to toss it all down again on genesis 2, and be told I may have to wait 2 years for the male version.
Also, I have the right to air my feelings, good or ill, about this or any other product and I dont appreciate PAs coming to say, 'shut up and just spend."
when you refund the 3 grand I spent in the last 3 months, you can tell me its not dire. Its not about beaming about the product. the product looks great. Shame I spent so much getting genesis 1 workable. Im not just going to toss it all down again on genesis 2, and be told I may have to wait 2 years for the male version.
Also, I have the right to air my feelings, good or ill, about this or any other product and I dont appreciate PAs coming to say, 'shut up and just spend."
Yep, yep, yep. >:-(
With what you and others have been able to accomplish with the platform, you are eminently correct. The Genesis 1 platform is far from dead, or even moribund. It will always have its uses, as the morphing capabilities of the platform dictate no other rational outcome.
I envisage both the Genesis 1, and Genesis 2 platforms occupying my tool kit for quite some time to come, for various and sundry applications, each platform playing to its strengths...
Gedd:
You make a good point --products are as appropriate as their intended use demands. Personally, I use most of the products as reference for painting and drawing (my render is never the finished product) so I still use Gen 4 figures and also Genesis (since an imperfect bend or expression or a weird cloth bend will be painted out /drawn correctly by me anyway). However, having to manage two sets of figures (and all that comes with that) based on their relative position to the camera in the scene seems like a lot of unnecessary overhead for many.
I return to my initial comment about relative return on investment--is that little extra nuance provided by Gen2 figures really worth the inconvenience and expense?
Immediately obsolete? No. But it sure as hell puts a clock on it.
Or are you telling us that, going forward, your products won't be increasingly focused on Genesis 2?
They don't call Latin a dead language because one day everybody up and lost the ability to speak it. They call it a dead language because it's stopped growing and evolving. And now the descendants of the Roman empire speak a bunch of mutually unintelligible dialects...
Okay, I may have overextended that metaphor a bit. But I'd like to think you're clever enough to get my point regardless.
I'll have to take G2 for a spin later and see if it's worth it.
I, too, do feel a lack of men's clothing and characters compared to the women's. But, and I'm not not trying to insult any content makers here, a lot of the women's clothing I see in the shop is the same basic thing with a few details changed. Most of them could be replicated with a good texture and trans map. So unless it's something that I know I'll get use out of and have usually cross genders, I don't bother.
Copied from my thread, here is my view on the whole thing:
Genesis 1 was designed to be a truely universal figure. One that could morph from male to female seamlessly. This was a huge and great innovation. It works great for character developers like myself so that we could have male and female versions of our characters quickly and easily with the spin of a dial.
But this universality was not great for all product developers.
This sexual ambiguity made it tough for clotheing makers, as alot of clothing just simply doesnt work for both male and female, and while some may say “well just develop the clothes for the female version”. We all know that if someone did that, then there would immediatly be complaints in the forums that they tried to use this or that outfit for the female, but it looked like crap on their male character, so the outfit is garbage and not worth the money blah blah blah. Yes..this happens.
You can see how genesis 1 really didnt get that many really cool outfits, like previous generations did.
So I can see where daz wants to revitalize product development with this new figure.
BUT this doesnt mean Genesis 1 is obsolete. It is still a powerful tool in anyones artistic arsenol. It is still great for the types of characters I do and as such it still has a ton of life in it.
The release of a new figure does not immediatly make the old obsolete.
I still see a ton of life in Genesis one. It is far from dead…....it is just the sexually ambiguous sibling to Genesis 2 female (and the upcoming male). They are all part of the same family.
I totally disagree with this. The original Genesis character will be perfectly fine for crowd situations, background characters... for a long time into the future.
The thing that occurred to me is, I wish they didn't refer to V6 as Genesis 2. As was pointed out earlier, Genesis is about having a single character span a wide range. It would make more sense it would seem to come out with a V6 that is unbound from the Genesis concept entirely and marketed as a 'main character' type character. Leave the Genesis line for a 'Send in the Clones' style character... but with more flexibility, and move that concept forward on it's own track. That is, expand it's usefulness for creating mass character scenes with appropriate functionality to that specific task, and continue on with more specific character lines for detailed work.
Regardless how DAZ markets it, that is the way I will most likely approach this. The only shame is, if they took this approach they would evolve the Genesis character (a la Genesis 1) to grow in it's own right towards a more efficient mass character concept over time.